Hatem Ben Arfa (still a free agent)

[Weezertron]

I'm definitely a Ben Arfa fan, but surely even his biggest fans have to question him now?

 

From what I can tell, he isnt injured.. yet isnt playing for/getting in the Hull team.  First line of defence for him would I assume be "Bruce is the wrong manager for him, doesnt like that type of player" or whatever.

 

Ok, so why did he sign him and sing his praises just after?

 

You'd say Pardew is "the wrong manager" for him too I assume.  But he's been a regular in the Newcastle starting 11 before, so that's that out of the window.  If you're good enough, you'll play?

 

I'm not questioning him, why should I? I've seen him play.

 

Why should you? Cause his career is seemingly going/gone to s*** despite him being this 'incredible' player. Apparently.

We've actually seen how good he is with the ball ffs. Why are people so keen to dispel what they've actually witnessed in favour of arbitrary s**** like "Bruce dropped him for Burnley."

 

Why isnt he the first name on the team sheet then?

For Hull? I don't know. Am I meant to assume that because Steve Bruce (STEVE BRUCE) doesn't consider him the first name on his team sheet that everything I've actually seen him do in a Newcastle shirt was actually just a figment of my imagination?

 

No, you're meant to wonder why after "everything you've actually seen him do in a Newcastle shirt", he cant get in.. any team as a regular starter by the looks of it.

 

You're obviously quick to discredit Steve Bruce, and likewise Pardew I assume in being a s*** manager.  As I said before, this s*** manager had Ben Arfa as a regular starter in his team at one point.  Saying "OMG CUZ ITZ STEV BROSE!" doesnt stick with me.  If he' that good, he'd be playing regularly - as he was here at one point.

 

You seem to be questioning his footballing ability. He's obscenely talented at football. That's not really up for debate.

 

If he can't get into Hull's squad - it won't be because of his play.

[sbnufc]

I'm definitely a Ben Arfa fan, but surely even his biggest fans have to question him now?

 

From what I can tell, he isnt injured.. yet isnt playing for/getting in the Hull team.  First line of defence for him would I assume be "Bruce is the wrong manager for him, doesnt like that type of player" or whatever.

 

Ok, so why did he sign him and sing his praises just after?

 

You'd say Pardew is "the wrong manager" for him too I assume.  But he's been a regular in the Newcastle starting 11 before, so that's that out of the window.  If you're good enough, you'll play?

 

I'm not questioning him, why should I? I've seen him play.

 

Why should you? Cause his career is seemingly going/gone to s*** despite him being this 'incredible' player. Apparently.

We've actually seen how good he is with the ball ffs. Why are people so keen to dispel what they've actually witnessed in favour of arbitrary s**** like "Bruce dropped him for Burnley."

 

Why isnt he the first name on the team sheet then?

For Hull? I don't know. Am I meant to assume that because Steve Bruce (STEVE BRUCE) doesn't consider him the first name on his team sheet that everything I've actually seen him do in a Newcastle shirt was actually just a figment of my imagination?

 

No, you're meant to wonder why after "everything you've actually seen him do in a Newcastle shirt", he cant get in.. any team as a regular starter by the looks of it.

 

You're obviously quick to discredit Steve Bruce, and likewise Pardew I assume in being a s*** manager.  As I said before, this s*** manager had Ben Arfa as a regular starter in his team at one point.  Saying "OMG CUZ ITZ STEV BROSE!" doesnt stick with me.  If he' that good, he'd be playing regularly - as he was here at one point.

 

You seem to be questioning his footballing ability. He's obscenely talented at football. That's not really up for debate.

 

If he can't get into Hull's squad - it won't be because of his play.

 

Fair play, I can see how it comes across that way - but I'm not. 

 

I'm using his obvious talent to try and get answers from the people who will clearly defend him no matter what. Talent? Yes. Can win a game single handedly? Yes. Exciting to watch? Yes. Fan favourite (for the most part)? Yes.

 

Ok, we've got that established.  So why isnt he the first name on the sheet?

 

Seems people can't give an answer - or more like don't want to (ie, doesnt work in training, could be overweight, isnt fit enough, attitude problem, whatever..). Any slight on his god-like profile/persona and some people just won't see or say it, when it's obviously there..

 

Bruce may not be the best manager, but he's a Prem manager and has been for a decent chunk of time.  I'm 100% certain that if he could, Ben Arfa would be playing every game possible.

[Dinho lad]

[Hanshithispantz]

Any slight on his god-like profile/persona and some people just won't see or say it, when it's obviously there..

It's not 'obviously there' though, is it? He may be a bit sulky (I dunno) but he's never shown anything to suggest that what he does affects his own, or the team's performances on the pitch.

 

He was constantly chastised by Pardew because he didn't track back enough, or because his "stats weren't right" while he would stick with players who would offer literally fuck all to the team other than a bit of graft or a physical presence. At a guess, because Bruce is Pardew lite, I would say the same thing will happen at Hull, he'll be marginalise as being bit of a luxury instead of the focal point for their attack which he should be. We'll have to see how it pans out in the coming months though, he was only dropped for 1 game.

 

 

[sbnufc]

Any slight on his god-like profile/persona and some people just won't see or say it, when it's obviously there..

It's not 'obviously there' though, is it? He may be a bit sulky (I dunno) but he's never shown anything to suggest that what he does affects his own, or the team's performances on the pitch.

 

He was constantly chastised by Pardew because he didn't track back enough, or because his "stats weren't right" while he would stick with players who would offer literally fuck all to the team other than a bit of graft or a physical presence. At a guess, because Bruce is Pardew lite, I would say the same thing will happen at Hull, he'll be marginalise as being bit of a luxury instead of the focal point for their attack which he should be. We'll have to see how it pans out in the coming months though, he was only dropped for 1 game.

 

 

 

Problems at Lyon, left

Problems at Marseille, left

Problems at Newcastle, left

 

Hardly coincidence. He's only had 3 clubs, and left all 3 on a bad/sour note

[Hanshithispantz]

We saw first hand what his problems at Newcastle were, and it was that his manager refused to play him (by Pardew's own admission) because his stats weren't right, because he 'wasn't a winger', and because he didn't work hard enough in defence. For clarity this is the same manager who decided to persist with Papiss Cisse on the right wing.

 

Whatever happened at Lyon and Marseille seemingly didn't carry over, he was here for 4 year without a hint of bother until he stood up and questioned The King.

[Ronaldo]

He had an opportunity to publically oppose Pardew and increase the pressure on him, and didn't. Even defended him and said he shouldn't be sacked.

 

Hatem does whatever makes his life easier and always will. Hell of a talent, wasted.

[ShootGol]

y u do this?

 

Feeling a little nostalgia viewing that.

 

He was never perfect by my, what he produced on his day for us was sublime, a pure joy to watch as a toon fan. Ignorant to say you never took pleasure from what he produced. Concentrating on his abilities solely, a player such as himself doesn't come around that often especially for us.

 

It's a shame it has all gone to the shit.

[sbnufc]

We saw first hand what his problems at Newcastle were, and it was that his manager refused to play him (by Pardew's own admission) because his stats weren't right, because he 'wasn't a winger', and because he didn't work hard enough in defence. For clarity this is the same manager who decided to persist with Papiss Cisse on the right wing.

 

Whatever happened at Lyon and Marseille seemingly didn't carry over, he was here for 4 year without a hint of bother until he stood up and questioned The King.

 

It's also the same manager who gave him regular starts when he was fit, over 2-3 seasons.  His stats won't have been much different then to when he was 'refused' by the manager.  As if he just suddenly had a 'eureka' moment, saw Ben Arfa's "bad" defence stats and decided to drop him, fall out with him then sell him

 

But whatever, this is getting tedious, so I'm done. You clearly won't accept any criticism aimed at him. I don't expect anything less though.

 

For the record, I'd love him back and playing on form like he did back in the day

[Guest firetotheworks]

He had an opportunity to publically oppose Pardew and increase the pressure on him, and didn't. Even defended him and said he shouldn't be sacked.

 

Hatem does whatever makes his life easier and always will. Hell of a talent, wasted.

 

It was in broader terms that he said that he would never call for anyone to be sacked. It would do his image with Newcastle fans no good to stir up trouble, he took the moral high ground as far as I'm concerned, but still hinted at the problem not being him by saying he didn't know why he wasn't played and said that the claims made against him about weight and work rate etc were false. He sat with the fans at matches and made it a bit of a him vs Pardew sort of thing and then the banners took it a step further. I think he and his agent played it very well tbh, he was still criticised by fans and the media alike and would have got more criticism for causing a stir by attacking the manager, and therefore (as some of the idiots supporting us would see it) the club and therefore (again, the idiots) the fans.

[Guest firetotheworks]

He also (if the numerous reports from definite ITKs are to be believed) spoke up and squared up to Pardew after the Man United defeat when everyone else in the team was too spineless to. That's enough for me in my book.

[Hanshithispantz]

We saw first hand what his problems at Newcastle were, and it was that his manager refused to play him (by Pardew's own admission) because his stats weren't right, because he 'wasn't a winger', and because he didn't work hard enough in defence. For clarity this is the same manager who decided to persist with Papiss Cisse on the right wing.

 

Whatever happened at Lyon and Marseille seemingly didn't carry over, he was here for 4 year without a hint of bother until he stood up and questioned The King.

 

It's also the same manager who gave him regular starts when he was fit, over 2-3 seasons.  His stats won't have been much different then to when he was 'refused' by the manager.  As if he just suddenly had a 'eureka' moment, saw Ben Arfa's "bad" defence stats and decided to drop him, fall out with him then sell him

 

But whatever, this is getting tedious, so I'm done. You clearly won't accept any criticism aimed at him. I don't expect anything less though.

 

For the record, I'd love him back and playing on form like he did back in the day

Sorry? I will accept criticism, just not criticism based on confused logic.

 

Pardew didn't give him "regular starts when he was fit, over 2-3 seasons" for one, he would usually allow him 4-5 games if he was lucky and then drop him after a poor 45 minutes, in fact I think the start of 2012/2013 is the only time he's ever managed anywhere near double digits until he was dropped or injured. He's never been afforded an actual season in the side. As I've said the reasons Pardew has given for this are his stats, his lack of defensive application, and the fact at one point he didn't even know he was a winger. He's always been viewed as a luxury player in Pardew's eyes.

 

There's absolutely nothing to suggest it was anything other than poor management from Pardew - considering we weren't exactly consistently winning games when he was out the side - that led to him not being played, which is what eventually led to a fallout.

 

[Wullie]

I genuinely don't know how someone can follow NUFC yet at the same time be of the genuine belief that Ben Arfa was given regular starts over 2-3 seasons.

 

He's never started more than 16 league games in a season for us (even Obertan managed more). Last year he started less top flight games than a player now playing in the Turkish second division. How can anyone pay attention to the club and yet be so misinformed?

[Cronky]

I don't think anyone can say that Ben Arfa wasn't given a chance to prove himself. He had several starts, in all sorts of different positions. Pardew did try to find the right team structure to enable him to flourish.

 

The debate is about what conclusion you draw from those performances, and even that is complicated with a disciplinary issue, which was the spark that turned a problem into a crisis, and we don't have full information about that.

 

The issue which his supporters don't always face up to is that there has been a similar pattern at his previous clubs. He's admitted himself that he has a deep-rooted problem with authority, and personally I don't think he finds it easy to handle success. The minute things seem to start going well, he finds a way of screwing up. He needs a psychiatrist, not a coach.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I don't think anyone can say that Ben Arfa wasn't given a chance to prove himself. He had several starts, in all sorts of different positions. Pardew did try to find the right team structure to enable him to flourish.

 

The debate is about what conclusion you draw from those performances, and even that is complicated with a disciplinary issue, which was the spark that turned a problem into a crisis, and we don't have full information about that.

 

The issue which his supporters don't always face up to is that there has been a similar pattern at his previous clubs. He's admitted himself that he has a deep-rooted problem with authority, and personally I don't think he finds it easy to handle success. The minute things seem to start going well, he finds a way of screwing up. He needs a psychiatrist, not a coach.

 

Literally from the very first sentence, that's total rubbish.

[Wullie]

The fucking irony of Pardew's number one fan Cronky accusing people of ignoring what has happened at previous clubs.

[Tooj]

I always felt that Pardew seemed to hold Ben Arfa to different standards in comparison to other players, so because of this he never really gave him a real chance.

[Guest firetotheworks]

The fucking irony of Pardew's number one fan Cronky accusing people of ignoring what has happened at previous clubs.

 

Even dismissing previous clubs for both Pardew and Ben Arfa, it's pretty much asking us to dismiss our eyesight over the past 4 years.

[Hanshithispantz]

"I don't think anyone can say that Ben Arfa wasn't given a chance to prove himself."

 

That is genuinely hilarious, tbf.

[Hanshithispantz]

He was given a chance in the same sense that bloke in Saw was given a chance of freedom when he was handed a rusty hacksaw.

[Wullie]

Come on now Hans, he was given "several starts".

[Wullie]

How many places has MYM caused bother?  When has Mascherano been a problem in the dressing room? Such a shit excuse for a shit manager.

 

The irony is that Ba also had a history of it, and when he tried it here, Pardew bent over backwards and mangled the whole team, including the front three that HBA was bossing, to try and keep him happy. Both Ba and Cabaye behaved far worse than Ben Arfa ever has here but never found themselves out of the team for it. Tooj is right - always double standards.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I'm convinced that it's because of the type of player that he is and that he's 'mercurial' (ugh)

[The College Dropout]

After any slump in form or even a half - HBA would be benched. Pardew has his blue-chip brigade and HBA was never in that bracket.

 

A blue chip Pardew player runs a lot, "works hard", probably a "lad", helps if they are tall, strong or very fast. He tends to decide pretty early on too. Some players he never truly trusts. HBA, Marv, Anita & MYM for sure. Sissoko's form is up and down like a yo-yo. He's a big strong fast lad, he starts every game he's fit for.

 

Lads like Haidara, Anita & Marveaux will need to play out of their skin to do anything worthwhile here. At least he seems to have faith in Cabella.

[Wullie]

So much faith in Cabella that he was favouring both Obertan and Gouffran as recently as last month.