Taylor Swift Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 It doesn't include the human element. I think that's crucial. In other industries, in IT, in manufacturing, CEOs are the usually smart guys. At least the original CEO is pretty damn smart. But in sports, because emotions play such a huge part, no sport has really developed a way to include 'outsiders' as managers and coaches. You look at the NFL where the best coaches are sons of former coaches or they're former players. In the NBA, the same thing applies: the best coaches were players. Same with MLB. I think the difference is in the squad building and general management. Those guys are now all educated guys. In MLB, the vast majority of general managers are graduates from the top universities in America. GMs in the NBA are increasingly data-driven and thus extremely well-educated. Football, because it's not as easily broken down into data that can be analysed as the American sports, doesn't require as data-driven people. But, is there a greater benefit from hiring someone well-educated to negotiate contracts, transfers and execute youth development? Yeah, I definitely think so and the smarter clubs will edge that way. I would say the coaching could be taught to outsiders so the technical part is possible but the man-management and motivation part is what's missing and that really requires someone who's good at it, whether they're a former player or not. I'd say someone smart would see that buying English players in general doesn't yield as much value, they'd be able to see optimal squad sizes, develop training methods and rehabilitation methods that are an improvement on what currently exists. This would be an improvement on someone like Pardew whose first choice is to buy English has-beens. But man-management is something else that I don't think an outsider can do as easily because of the respect and acceptance part from the players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'm sure people that play FM, are ALSO capable of working with and managing people. I mean come on. People completely missed the point of that post. It wasn't about video gaming. He was just talking tactics really, and the basics of setting up a team. Pardew's approach to that task is borderline psychotic, so yeah, I'd probably ask my 6 year old nephew to set out the team ahead of him, because he's alright at FIFA. And when he uses Newcastle he always keeps Sissoko in the middle and Cisse upfront. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 So someone that plays a game that mimics football management, a game that is essentially lists and options...is going to have more chance of being a football manager than someone who has little knowledge of the game. If you can sit in the dugout with your laptop maybe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I have experience in all of them, people that know nothing about video games always come out with demeaning crap like that. 'clicking a mouse' man, aye, the entire game is just clicking a mouse, that's it, nothing else to it. He's getting FM mixed up with the first Diablo game. I broke a mouse playing that where you had to click to take steps. I love the CM/FM games. That's what they are though, games. You could probably pick up a thing or two about football management, but there are loads of teenagers out there winning the CL with Wrexham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 So someone that plays a game that mimics football management, a game that is essentially lists and options...is going to have more chance of being a football manager than someone who has little knowledge of the game. If you can sit in the dugout with your laptop maybe. No, they're going to be better equipped than someone that has managed someone in an office or has been a teacher, without any knowledge of football, of course they are. Don't you think it's canny archaic to think that someone managing people is more important than knowing about football? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Experience as a teacher or manager of any kind would obviously prepare you a lot better for the job as a football manager than playing a computer game. The job is to manage people (well, footballers anyway), not clicking a mouse. UGHHHHH You've got something to say? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Yeah, it's in the posts following on from that, mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 So someone that plays a game that mimics football management, a game that is essentially lists and options...is going to have more chance of being a football manager than someone who has little knowledge of the game. If you can sit in the dugout with your laptop maybe. No, they're going to be better equipped than someone that has managed someone in an office or has been a teacher, without any knowledge of football, of course they are. Don't you think it's canny archaic to think that someone managing people is more important than knowing about football? Mike Ashleys manages a bunch of people to run a football club and his football knowledge is pretty garbage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 So someone that plays a game that mimics football management, a game that is essentially lists and options...is going to have more chance of being a football manager than someone who has little knowledge of the game. If you can sit in the dugout with your laptop maybe. No, they're going to be better equipped than someone that has managed someone in an office or has been a teacher, without any knowledge of football, of course they are. Don't you think it's canny archaic to think that someone managing people is more important than knowing about football? Mike Ashleys manages a bunch of people to run a football club and his football knowledge is pretty garbage. Eh? I dunno what point you're making here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Ashley, Pardew, Bishop etc meeting up at the training ground, for a coffee, chat over the upcoming transfer window.... Bishop ' Here lads look at this website- The Fans who dont like Alan think they can do better cos they have been good at a football manager computer game' ....Lots of Laughing out loud. ...Pardew is here forever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 It's way, way more complicated than that and the outcome of choices depend on countless variables such as the club, the player involved etc etc and it's all based on real life, so someone like Balotelli is going to be a s*** to manage etc. I'm not even saying that it's going to make you a manager, I think suggesting that is cringey, it's just this whole turning your nose up at games as if they're still how they were in the '70s that's ignorant. It's a good tool and it's actually used by clubs, so in depth is the data in it. The job is obviously to manage people, but discounting it and saying that a teacher or manager (regardless of their experience or knowledge of football) is going to prepare you a lot better than 'clicking a mouse' is based on nothing more than ignorance really. I agree it's a good tool but it's still a game with its own rules, based on reality yes but still a simulation. Communicating with players, motivating players, building team spirit etc is obviously a big, big part of the job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Ashley, Pardew, Bishop etc meeting up at the training ground, for a coffee, chat over the upcoming transfer window.... Bishop ' Here lads look at this website- The Fans who dont like Alan think they can do better cos they have been good at a football manager computer game' ....Lots of Laughing out loud. ...Pardew is here forever. Aye, that's exactly what people are saying. Anything to contribute outside of snidey, arsehole remarks? It seems like that's all you're capable of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Ashley, Pardew, Bishop etc meeting up at the training ground, for a coffee, chat over the upcoming transfer window.... Bishop ' Here lads look at this website- The Fans who dont like Alan think they can do better cos they have been good at a football manager computer game' ....Lots of Laughing out loud. ...Pardew is here forever. Aye, that's exactly what people are saying. Anything to contribute outside of snidey, arsehole remarks? It seems like that's all you're capable of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 It's way, way more complicated than that and the outcome of choices depend on countless variables such as the club, the player involved etc etc and it's all based on real life, so someone like Balotelli is going to be a s*** to manage etc. I'm not even saying that it's going to make you a manager, I think suggesting that is cringey, it's just this whole turning your nose up at games as if they're still how they were in the '70s that's ignorant. It's a good tool and it's actually used by clubs, so in depth is the data in it. The job is obviously to manage people, but discounting it and saying that a teacher or manager (regardless of their experience or knowledge of football) is going to prepare you a lot better than 'clicking a mouse' is based on nothing more than ignorance really. I agree it's a good tool but it's still a game with its own rules, based on reality yes but still a simulation. Communicating with players, motivating players, building team spirit etc is obviously a big, big part of the job. Definitely, totally agree with that. Dunno about a teacher or office manager being more well equipped, mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Ashley, Pardew, Bishop etc meeting up at the training ground, for a coffee, chat over the upcoming transfer window.... Bishop ' Here lads look at this website- The Fans who dont like Alan think they can do better cos they have been good at a football manager computer game' ....Lots of Laughing out loud. ...Pardew is here forever. Aye, that's exactly what people are saying. Anything to contribute outside of snidey, arsehole remarks? It seems like that's all you're capable of. Thought so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Ashley, Pardew, Bishop etc meeting up at the training ground, for a coffee, chat over the upcoming transfer window.... Bishop ' Here lads look at this website- The Fans who dont like Alan think they can do better cos they have been good at a football manager computer game' ....Lots of Laughing out loud. ...Pardew is here forever. Aye, that's exactly what people are saying. Anything to contribute outside of snidey, arsehole remarks? It seems like that's all you're capable of. Thought so. ok, I will put that more straightforward if it helps you. Pardews critics do themselves no favours talking about computer games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Again, that's not really what's happening, but feel free to think that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieT Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Think people are missing the point, pretty sure the original post - which I agree with, is that in playing games like FM and just watching matches you can develop a pretty astute appreciation of the systems and tactics. Such people are being employed (I know a lot of them will have related degrees as well) in football now in analytic's and performance departments. Obviously it's a significant leap to becoming an actual manager - because it very much is who you know etc and man management is a totally arena, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Perfectly put. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 No one is saying that that alone would make a great manager, only that's a good tool to start from as a basis to learn from. There's absolutely no reason you couldn't use that as a tool to learn the necessary basics before going on to learn the more advanced stuff like motivation and the general human element. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Think people are missing the point, pretty sure the original post - which I agree with, is that in playing games like FM and just watching matches you can develop a pretty astute appreciation of the systems and tactics. Such people are being employed (I know a lot of them will have related degrees as well) in football now in analytic's and performance departments. Obviously it's a significant leap to becoming an actual manager - because it very much is who you know etc and man manegent is a totally arena, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility. Some people do seem pretty oblivious to the increasing importance of analytics in football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 No one is saying that that alone would make a great manager, only that's a good tool to start from as a basis to learn from. There's absolutely no reason you couldn't use that as a tool to learn the necessary basics before going on to learn the more advanced stuff like motivation and the general human element. Id like to think your basic education of football would come from actually watching games, going to games and watching all formats of football. Playing football manager might help you in some form but it wont ever replace someone who has been involved with the game all their lives, played to a level, became a coach and then moved up to management or even DOF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 So someone that plays a game that mimics football management, a game that is essentially lists and options...is going to have more chance of being a football manager than someone who has little knowledge of the game. If you can sit in the dugout with your laptop maybe. No, they're going to be better equipped than someone that has managed someone in an office or has been a teacher, without any knowledge of football, of course they are. Don't you think it's canny archaic to think that someone managing people is more important than knowing about football? Mike Ashleys manages a bunch of people to run a football club and his football knowledge is pretty garbage. Eh? I dunno what point you're making here? I was tking the piss with that one. :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I think discounting both is naive, but the point is that those that have been in football tend to get that door opened to them because they were a player, despite having no real experience of management. The whole argument originally was that there's nothing to say that these people will be any good and in fact there are a lot of managers who have no real experience as a player that have come through to management and been some of the most successful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 So someone that plays a game that mimics football management, a game that is essentially lists and options...is going to have more chance of being a football manager than someone who has little knowledge of the game. If you can sit in the dugout with your laptop maybe. No, they're going to be better equipped than someone that has managed someone in an office or has been a teacher, without any knowledge of football, of course they are. Don't you think it's canny archaic to think that someone managing people is more important than knowing about football? Mike Ashleys manages a bunch of people to run a football club and his football knowledge is pretty garbage. Eh? I dunno what point you're making here? I was tking the piss with that one. :lol: I thought so like, had to be sure though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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