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toon25

toon25

Posted
Posted
  On 16/06/2024 at 15:09, Heron said:

Just on this. I understand England fans have some absolute cocks, but we're not turning up dressed like sumit oot of a nuclear holocaust film with hoodies and faces covered etc. Looking to scrap by and large. We're just pissheads being daft cunts.

 

Whereas Serbia will undoubtedly have elements dressed in the above looking purely to thieve and scrap.

 

 

 

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Aye, just a few pissheads who turn up waving inflatable spitfires. Harmless fun.

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OpenC

OpenC

Posted
Posted

Some things never change I guess. George Orwell in 1941:

 

"England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals
are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of 
standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes
squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always
anti-British."

 

They're singing a children's song from the best part of a hundred years ago and ultimately it's making the same point as, for example, Flower Of Scotland does and probably dozens of other national anthems do. Is it really causing any actual offence to anyone?

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Jaqen

Jaqen

Posted
Posted

It's weird but there is something about supporting England that sends quite a few people mad. Even being in Newcastle during England games is a totally different experience from a Newcastle match day and presumably most are Newcastle fans. The usual dodgy songs, hoying pints about, people just looking for scraps and smashing up things. 

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
  On 16/06/2024 at 16:42, Jaqen said:

It's weird but there is something about supporting England that sends quite a few people mad. Even being in Newcastle during England games is a totally different experience from a Newcastle match day and presumably most are Newcastle fans. The usual dodgy songs, hoying pints about, people just looking for scraps and smashing up things. 

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Normally the type who only come out on Derby day. 

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JLC

JLC

Posted
Posted

The key differentiator for me. When Newcastle lose then it spoils my day/weekend/week. When England lose, I'm over it after a few seconds. No heart in it for me.

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Heron

Heron

Posted
Posted
  On 16/06/2024 at 16:37, toon25 said:

 

Aye, just a few pissheads who turn up waving inflatable spitfires. Harmless fun.

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Again, it's pissheads and cockends. Hardly going out to deliberately kick fuck out of people is it? They'll consider that 'banter', which is designed to wind people up not smash their heads in and steal their flags.

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AyeDubbleYoo

AyeDubbleYoo

Posted
Posted
  On 16/06/2024 at 16:37, OpenC said:

Some things never change I guess. George Orwell in 1941:

 

"England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals
are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of 
standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes
squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always
anti-British."

 

They're singing a children's song from the best part of a hundred years ago and ultimately it's making the same point as, for example, Flower Of Scotland does and probably dozens of other national anthems do. Is it really causing any actual offence to anyone?

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I’m very much not ashamed of my own nationality, I just didn’t want to be associated with the behaviour of some of our fans. 

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Infinitely Content

Infinitely Content

Posted
Posted

I adore England, and I stand by a patriotism that is not founded in the fleeting ideas and beliefs of the time, which is where I often find people go looking for something to be proud of, to identify with. Beliefs which are always synonymous with conflict and the war of ideas, always skimming the surface of the depths of our shared existence. It's no wonder we can't find a enduring symbol to stand by...

One must only quiet their mind, shut the screen and take a drive out into the country and cast a restful gaze over these green and pleasant lands, where one can catch a glimpse of something ancient, something timeless that binds our nation together. A connection with our land that inspired our great artists; none more so than William Wordsworth;
 

Milton! thou shouldst be living at this hour:
England hath need of thee: she is a fen
Of stagnant waters: altar, sword, and pen,
Fireside, the heroic wealth of hall and bower,
Have forfeited their ancient English dower
Of inward happiness. We are selfish men;
Oh! raise us up, return to us again;
And give us manners, virtue, freedom, power.
Thy soul was like a Star, and dwelt apart:
Thou hadst a voice whose sound was like the sea:
Pure as the naked heavens, majestic, free,
So didst thou travel on life's common way,
In cheerful godliness; and yet thy heart
The lowliest duties on herself did lay.

Wordsworth wrote this in 1802, casting an eye back to an England whose virtues had been lost, a place once of happiness, art, religion & literature now stagnant waters lost to the scourge of modernity. I guess he was right, and we still see people wrestling with what it means to be English, with the prevailing attitude one of a scornful, bitter renunciation.

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Joe1984

Joe1984

Posted
Posted
  On 16/06/2024 at 17:14, Infinitely Content said:

I adore England, and I stand by a patriotism that is not founded in the fleeting ideas and beliefs of the time, which is where I often find people go looking for something to be proud of, to identify with. Beliefs which are always synonymous with conflict and the war of ideas, always skimming the surface of the depths of our shared existence. It's no wonder we can't find a enduring symbol to stand by...

One must only quiet their mind, shut the screen and take a drive out into the country and cast a restful gaze over these green and pleasant lands, where one can catch a glimpse of something ancient, something timeless that binds our nation together. A connection with our land that inspired our great artists; none more so than William Wordsworth;
 

Milton! thou shouldst be living at this hour:
England hath need of thee: she is a fen
Of stagnant waters: altar, sword, and pen,
Fireside, the heroic wealth of hall and bower,
Have forfeited their ancient English dower
Of inward happiness. We are selfish men;
Oh! raise us up, return to us again;
And give us manners, virtue, freedom, power.
Thy soul was like a Star, and dwelt apart:
Thou hadst a voice whose sound was like the sea:
Pure as the naked heavens, majestic, free,
So didst thou travel on life's common way,
In cheerful godliness; and yet thy heart
The lowliest duties on herself did lay.

Wordsworth wrote this in 1802, casting an eye back to an England whose virtues had been lost, a place once of happiness, art, religion & literature now stagnant waters lost to the scourge of modernity. I guess he was right, and we still see people wrestling with what it means to be English, with the prevailing attitude one of a scornful, bitter renunciation.

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You okay mate? ☺️

 

Seriously good for you. Very positive!

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toon25

toon25

Posted
Posted
  On 16/06/2024 at 15:09, Heron said:

Just on this. I understand England fans have some absolute cocks, but we're not turning up dressed like sumit oot of a nuclear holocaust film with hoodies and faces covered etc. Looking to scrap by and large. We're just pissheads being daft cunts.

 

Whereas Serbia will undoubtedly have elements dressed in the above looking purely to thieve and scrap.

 

 

 

Expand  

 

That's Serbia fans as a whole, is it?

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Wolfcastle

Wolfcastle

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 16/06/2024 at 16:37, OpenC said:

Some things never change I guess. George Orwell in 1941:

 

"England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals
are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of 
standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes
squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always
anti-British."

 

They're singing a children's song from the best part of a hundred years ago and ultimately it's making the same point as, for example, Flower Of Scotland does and probably dozens of other national anthems do. Is it really causing any actual offence to anyone?

Expand  

Its spread now of course. I think if those people were in/from any country they'd find a reason to hate it or be ashamed, embarrassed about something - all the same justifications would be there, so wonder if its about any given country or just an attitude in which there's ironically more snobbery and condescension than in the people they criticise to be able to be so embarrassed.

 

Saying that, I don't support the English national team (in football) and don't like England fans for amongst other things their boring long since unwitty songs, glory hunting attracting and mackem-esque turn-on-the-team-ability.

 

 

Edited by Wolfcastle

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STM

STM

Posted
Posted

I doubt many people are offended by WW2 chanting, I think once again we are looking at the offended on someone's behalf brigade.

 

I dont give a fuck that Scotland sing about slaughtering the English. In fact, it's my favourite national anthem.

 

I saw there is a new chant with Foden, Fire and Germans. By next week it will be linked to Dresden or some shit.

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Rod

Rod

Posted
Posted
  On 16/06/2024 at 17:10, AyeDubbleYoo said:


I’m very much not ashamed of my own nationality, I just didn’t want to be associated with the behaviour of some of our fans. 

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I watched "The Final: Attack on Wembley".  I was absolutely disgusted by our fan's behaviour.  Are all of our fans like that?  No.  However, tens of thousands behaved appallingly before, during and after the game.  I was ashamed to be English after watching it.

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El Prontonise

El Prontonise

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 16/06/2024 at 17:40, STM said:

Every country has shit fans, some stab, some fight, some tear the place up, some chant racist stuff. Yes we have ours. 

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Get fucked, defending the indefinable as usual. 

 

I don't see any issues from the like's of Switzerland etc.

 

 

Edited by El Prontonise

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Menace

Menace

Posted
Posted

The least amount of England flags I've seen on cars/houses this year.

 

  On 16/06/2024 at 17:40, STM said:

Every country has shit fans, some stab, some fight, some tear the place up, some chant racist stuff. Yes we have ours. 

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Not really though, England fans are hated worldwide

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STM

STM

Posted
Posted
  On 16/06/2024 at 17:43, Menace said:

The least amount of England flags I've seen on cars/houses this year.

 

 

Not really though, England fans are hated worldwide

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They are hated more by other English people. We love hating ourselves..

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Rod

Rod

Posted
Posted
  On 16/06/2024 at 17:43, Menace said:

The least amount of England flags I've seen on cars/houses this year.

 

 

Not really though, England fans are hated worldwide

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I wonder why England fans are hated........mmmmmmm.  Most of them are arseholes.  Watch The Final:Attack on Wembley.  It made me sad, angry and emotional.  Watch it!

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