Aleksandar Mitrović

[sturla]

As I said, Fulham would not be in the Premier League without him. 20m is a fair price in today's market.

 

Was looking at Villatalk today and they seem to think that Grealish is worth 50m, so we have lot to learn about being unrelistic.

[afar]

As I said, Fulham would not be in the Premier League without him. 20m is a fair price in today's market.

 

Was looking at Villatalk today and they seem to think that Grealish is worth 50m, so we have lot to learn about being unrelistic.

 

Considering his age, the position he plays in, his international record and his actual decent strike rate already in the PL. I think 20 million in today's market is undervaluing him. IMO we will struggle to find a player as valuable to our team up front as Fulham have if they buy him for that price. It's a crying shame Rafa doesn't rate him and the two just don't work together because this lad is going to come back and bite us in the bum.

[sturla]

As I said, Fulham would not be in the Premier League without him. 20m is a fair price in today's market.

 

Was looking at Villatalk today and they seem to think that Grealish is worth 50m, so we have lot to learn about being unrelistic.

 

Considering his age, the position he plays in, his international record and his actual decent strike rate already in the PL. I think 20 million in today's market is undervaluing him. IMO we will struggle to find a player as valuable to our team up front as Fulham have if they buy him for that price. It's a crying shame Rafa doesn't rate him and the two just don't work together because this lad is going to come back and bite us in the bum.

 

Yeah, think he would be extra motivated to score against us having not gotten enough opportunities.

I made my peace with this situation, he does not fit into Rafa's system and the choice between Rafa and Mitro is easy.

[tmonkey]

Mitro was gash for us in the PL imo. He's a big target man who lacks the strength to hold off PL defenders, doesn't have notable aerial ability at all especially in build up play (barely jumps), and doesn't hold the ball up particularly well. He's also slow and has shown he's a mediocre finisher who can't be relied upon to take rare chances. The only time he made a positive impact in the PL was when he'd come off the bench and "offer something different", and that was purely by virtue of just having a different play style to Cisse/Ayoze/etc, i.e. try to win headers, hold the ball up, battle physically with defenders instead of actually being good at those things.

 

That was in the past, though. Wonder if anything has significantly improved in his game whilst with Fulham that now suggests he'd do well in the PL? Not sure scoring regularly in the Championship is a good indicator of him being good to go at PL level - he was behind Gayle for us when in the Championship because Gayle looked like Andy Cole down there, yet we all know Gayle isn't remotely good enough for the PL asides from effort, so there's only so much stock you can put on that. Come to think of it Mitro was behind Murphy too, either due to a falling out with Rafa or because Murphy was slightly better aerially/held the ball up better.

 

And maybe this isn't a consistently applicable barometer, but if Mitro looks class then you'd expect other PL clubs to be banging on the door to sign him permanently. Can understand Fulham wanting him because he's already embedded in their team, and for a newly promoted PL side they'll struggle to get a quality goalscorer. He'll  also be good should Fulham get relegated from the PL, so it's a safe gamble all round for them. But you'd expect other mid table or low end PL clubs to be seriously considering him if there's a decent chance he's a much better player than we've seen in an NUFC shirt.

 

I'd personally be inclined to sell Mitro if we get a decent offer, ideally straight after the WC in case he scores a couple of goals and his value increases. I think that'd be one of those deals where everyone wins - Fulham get an OK player, and we get rid of a player who'd at best be a bench warmer (especially since he doesn't have the mobility needed for Rafa's system and things like Shelveys passing ability). There's always going to be the risk that he develops further and becomes another Jon Dahl Tomasson type that we regret selling after misusing him (not sure that's the case with Mitro tbh, he's had plenty of games for us in his preferred position/role), but it's also just as likely that he gets found out again at PL level or does something stupid that will make noone else want him. We'd then be stuck with an unsellable player that noone really wants, taking up space/wages in the squad till his contract runs out or he gets a new contract from whichever new/desperate manager has come in and realised there's no money for replacements - basically what kept Shola here forever.

 

 

Don't understand the agenda behind this sort of opinion being peddled out all the time. By any measure, he had a good debut season in the PL, all circumstances considered.

 

A different opinion to yours doesn't necessarily have an agenda. I've gone entirely by what I've seen and remembered, nothing else, and listed exactly what I thought he showed in his first season with us. If anything, I'd argue the agenda is more on the side of Mitrovic admirers (i.e. they like him as a person, reputation/image/attitude, celebrations, "madness", whatever) - imo it's borderline revisionism to claim he had a good debut season when for large parts the lad struggled to control a football and looked like he had two left feet when on the end of chances. But then that's my opinion of his performance standards, which is obviously subjective. I'm sure if we go back far enough in this thread to the middle/end of the first season there'll be plenty of posts about how shit he was and plenty of other posts saying he was decent and that he's young/learning.

 

If you wanted another objective counter argument to "Mitrovic had good debut season", when we were relegated everyone who could be sold for decent money was sold. No club went near Mitrovic, and the strongest link at the time was a loan move back to Anderlecht. Again, I don't like to put too much stock into "why don't good clubs go for him if he's good" arguments since there's various things to consider (e.g. maybe clubs didn't want a perceived bad egg ala Anelka at Fenerbahce), but it's certainly indicative. If Mitro had had a "good" season I'm certain he'd have been snapped up by any number of PL clubs needing a striker, especially given his supposed pedigree at the time, even with the bad boy image.

[HawK]

Mitro was gash for us in the PL imo. He's a big target man who lacks the strength to hold off PL defenders, doesn't have notable aerial ability at all especially in build up play (barely jumps), and doesn't hold the ball up particularly well. He's also slow and has shown he's a mediocre finisher who can't be relied upon to take rare chances. The only time he made a positive impact in the PL was when he'd come off the bench and "offer something different", and that was purely by virtue of just having a different play style to Cisse/Ayoze/etc, i.e. try to win headers, hold the ball up, battle physically with defenders instead of actually being good at those things.

 

That was in the past, though. Wonder if anything has significantly improved in his game whilst with Fulham that now suggests he'd do well in the PL? Not sure scoring regularly in the Championship is a good indicator of him being good to go at PL level - he was behind Gayle for us when in the Championship because Gayle looked like Andy Cole down there, yet we all know Gayle isn't remotely good enough for the PL asides from effort, so there's only so much stock you can put on that. Come to think of it Mitro was behind Murphy too, either due to a falling out with Rafa or because Murphy was slightly better aerially/held the ball up better.

 

And maybe this isn't a consistently applicable barometer, but if Mitro looks class then you'd expect other PL clubs to be banging on the door to sign him permanently. Can understand Fulham wanting him because he's already embedded in their team, and for a newly promoted PL side they'll struggle to get a quality goalscorer. He'll  also be good should Fulham get relegated from the PL, so it's a safe gamble all round for them. But you'd expect other mid table or low end PL clubs to be seriously considering him if there's a decent chance he's a much better player than we've seen in an NUFC shirt.

 

I'd personally be inclined to sell Mitro if we get a decent offer, ideally straight after the WC in case he scores a couple of goals and his value increases. I think that'd be one of those deals where everyone wins - Fulham get an OK player, and we get rid of a player who'd at best be a bench warmer (especially since he doesn't have the mobility needed for Rafa's system and things like Shelveys passing ability). There's always going to be the risk that he develops further and becomes another Jon Dahl Tomasson type that we regret selling after misusing him (not sure that's the case with Mitro tbh, he's had plenty of games for us in his preferred position/role), but it's also just as likely that he gets found out again at PL level or does something stupid that will make noone else want him. We'd then be stuck with an unsellable player that noone really wants, taking up space/wages in the squad till his contract runs out or he gets a new contract from whichever new/desperate manager has come in and realised there's no money for replacements - basically what kept Shola here forever.

 

 

Don't understand the agenda behind this sort of opinion being peddled out all the time. By any measure, he had a good debut season in the PL, all circumstances considered.

 

A different opinion to yours doesn't necessarily have an agenda. I've gone entirely by what I've seen and remembered, nothing else, and listed exactly what I thought he showed in his first season with us. If anything, I'd argue the agenda is more on the side of Mitrovic admirers (i.e. they like him as a person, reputation/image/attitude, celebrations, "madness", whatever) - imo it's borderline revisionism to claim he had a good debut season when for large parts the lad struggled to control a football and looked like he had two left feet when on the end of chances. But then that's my opinion of his performance standards, which is obviously subjective. I'm sure if we go back far enough in this thread to the middle/end of the first season there'll be plenty of posts about how shit he was and plenty of other posts saying he was decent and that he's young/learning.

 

Revisionism is saying he was gash based on nothing but your own opinion. As a 21 year old newcomer to the Premier League he score 9 goals in 22 starts and 12 sub appearances and contributed 4 assists, while following the guidelines laid out by tactical mastermind Steve McClaren.

 

What more do you expect from a 21 year old new to the PL?

[Crumpy Gunt]

I remember Mitro missing enough chances alone that could have kept us up. His yellow card within 30 seconds of his debut....my immediate thought was we've signed a fucking idiot here. His next yellow and then the red confirmed my thoughts. But, he got the happy clappers onside - the ones who viewed his ultimate stupidity as being 'committed'

[TRon]

Mitro was gash for us in the PL imo. He's a big target man who lacks the strength to hold off PL defenders, doesn't have notable aerial ability at all especially in build up play (barely jumps), and doesn't hold the ball up particularly well. He's also slow and has shown he's a mediocre finisher who can't be relied upon to take rare chances. The only time he made a positive impact in the PL was when he'd come off the bench and "offer something different", and that was purely by virtue of just having a different play style to Cisse/Ayoze/etc, i.e. try to win headers, hold the ball up, battle physically with defenders instead of actually being good at those things.

 

That was in the past, though. Wonder if anything has significantly improved in his game whilst with Fulham that now suggests he'd do well in the PL? Not sure scoring regularly in the Championship is a good indicator of him being good to go at PL level - he was behind Gayle for us when in the Championship because Gayle looked like Andy Cole down there, yet we all know Gayle isn't remotely good enough for the PL asides from effort, so there's only so much stock you can put on that. Come to think of it Mitro was behind Murphy too, either due to a falling out with Rafa or because Murphy was slightly better aerially/held the ball up better.

 

And maybe this isn't a consistently applicable barometer, but if Mitro looks class then you'd expect other PL clubs to be banging on the door to sign him permanently. Can understand Fulham wanting him because he's already embedded in their team, and for a newly promoted PL side they'll struggle to get a quality goalscorer. He'll  also be good should Fulham get relegated from the PL, so it's a safe gamble all round for them. But you'd expect other mid table or low end PL clubs to be seriously considering him if there's a decent chance he's a much better player than we've seen in an NUFC shirt.

 

I'd personally be inclined to sell Mitro if we get a decent offer, ideally straight after the WC in case he scores a couple of goals and his value increases. I think that'd be one of those deals where everyone wins - Fulham get an OK player, and we get rid of a player who'd at best be a bench warmer (especially since he doesn't have the mobility needed for Rafa's system and things like Shelveys passing ability). There's always going to be the risk that he develops further and becomes another Jon Dahl Tomasson type that we regret selling after misusing him (not sure that's the case with Mitro tbh, he's had plenty of games for us in his preferred position/role), but it's also just as likely that he gets found out again at PL level or does something stupid that will make noone else want him. We'd then be stuck with an unsellable player that noone really wants, taking up space/wages in the squad till his contract runs out or he gets a new contract from whichever new/desperate manager has come in and realised there's no money for replacements - basically what kept Shola here forever.

 

 

Don't understand the agenda behind this sort of opinion being peddled out all the time. By any measure, he had a good debut season in the PL, all circumstances considered.

 

It's not an agenda far as I can see, I've watched a few Fulham games this season when he's been on and he looks like he hasn't improved at all. He's a nuisance striker at best in the Premier whose strengths won't make up for his failings. I can't see him scoring many for Fulham next season so I think we should cash in while his value is inflated due to his purple patch in the championship.

[Hhtoon]

Be the next Thauvin and worth 50m plus a year after we sell him. Maybe.

 

Happy if he's sold cos Rafa feels he doesn't suit his system or doesn't like his attitude, as long as Rafa stays. If we sell him then Rafa leaves and the above happens I'll be fcuked off frankly. Think he deserves a shot at the premiership with someone.

[tmonkey]

Revisionism is saying he was gash based on nothing but your own opinion.

 

As stated, it's a fairly common opinion on here that Mitrovic was poor/shit in his first season (go back a few hundred pages to see that), just as it was a common opinion on here that he was OK/decent for a young player in a new country thrown into a mediocre team. So logically you'd be accusing me of revising the past if you think Mitrovic was good/decent. That's a given. I'm not discounting that possibility.

 

The point I made is that from my perspective, because I am in the "Mitro in first season was poor" camp, others seem to be revising the past based on their bias towards the player. You've not really covered that. Another point which I hadn't raised but which you've failed to acknowledge in your factually incorrect statement above is that an additional method of revisionism is retrospectively extrapolating performances from stats and then saying "oh he must have been decent, look at this number on paper, see?", as you've done in your next sentence.

 

Anyway, "nothing but your own opinion" is a tad nonsensical. Everything on here is opinions, including your opinion on interpretation of stats when judging a player (which I'm sure won't be consistent when it comes to universally accepted mediocre/crap players who have good stats on paper occasionally, e.g. Shola in 05/06). Plus, it's not just my own opinion, I've already made the point that noone went near Mitro after relegation, and since his "good debut PL season" he's only played in the Championship, which if anything is far more a concrete argument that supports my view.

 

As a 21 year old newcomer to the Premier League he score 9 goals in 22 starts and 12 sub appearances and contributed 4 assists, while following the guidelines laid out by tactical mastermind Steve McClaren.

 

What more do you expect from a 21 year old new to the PL?

 

Already explained, in some depth too, re: expectations. The stats are decent on paper certainly, but that why I specifically said I went by what I've seen. The poor performances far outweighed the positive stats, and the failure to do the basics as the season wore on is what has led to the opinion I and others have that he had a poor first season in spite of the OK'ish stats. Again, seeing that he's spent 2 years in the Championship since that supposed (according to you) good quality breakthrough first PL season, at a club with an owner who sells at every opportunity and under a world class manager who doesn't rate him, potentially backs that up.

 

Just as another example, according to WhoScored.com Mitrovic had an average rating of 6.67 in 2015/16 for us in the PL. Shola Ameobi had an average rating of 6.72 in 2010/11 (21(7) appearances, 6 PL goals, 3 assists).

[mrmojorisin75]

I don't get it, people want us to go for Jay Rodriguez who's only scored more than Mitro once in his entire career in the PL and he's 28

 

what people?

[HawK]

Revisionism is saying he was gash based on nothing but your own opinion.

 

As stated, it's a fairly common opinion on here that Mitrovic was poor/shit in his first season (go back a few hundred pages to see that), just as it was a common opinion on here that he was OK/decent for a young player in a new country thrown into a mediocre team. So logically you'd be accusing me of revising the past if you think Mitrovic was good/decent. That's a given. I'm not discounting that possibility.

 

The point I made is that from my perspective, because I am in the "Mitro in first season was poor" camp, others seem to be revising the past based on their bias towards the player. You've not really covered that. Another point which I hadn't raised but which you've failed to acknowledge in your factually incorrect statement above is that an additional method of revisionism is retrospectively extrapolating performances from stats and then saying "oh he must have been decent, look at this number on paper, see?", as you've done in your next sentence.

 

Anyway, "nothing but your own opinion" is a tad nonsensical. Everything on here is opinions, including your opinion on interpretation of stats when judging a player (which I'm sure won't be consistent when it comes to universally accepted mediocre/crap players who have good stats on paper occasionally, e.g. Shola in 05/06). Plus, it's not just my own opinion, I've already made the point that noone went near Mitro after relegation, and since his "good debut PL season" he's only played in the Championship, which if anything is far more a concrete argument that supports my view.

 

As a 21 year old newcomer to the Premier League he score 9 goals in 22 starts and 12 sub appearances and contributed 4 assists, while following the guidelines laid out by tactical mastermind Steve McClaren.

 

What more do you expect from a 21 year old new to the PL?

 

Already explained, in some depth too, re: expectations. The stats are decent on paper certainly, but that why I specifically said I went by what I've seen. The poor performances far outweighed the positive stats, and the failure to do the basics as the season wore on is what has led to the opinion I and others have that he had a poor first season in spite of the OK'ish stats. Again, seeing that he's spent 2 years in the Championship since that supposed (according to you) good quality breakthrough first PL season, at a club with an owner who sells at every opportunity and under a world class manager who doesn't rate him, potentially backs that up.

 

Just as another example, according to WhoScored.com Mitrovic had an average rating of 6.67 in 2015/16 for us in the PL. Shola Ameobi had an average rating of 6.72 in 2010/11 (21(7) appearances, 6 PL goals, 3 assists).

 

I've said plenty of times that Rafa and Mitro are mutually exclusive and I'd rather have Rafa, and also elsewhere I think Mitrovic will go on to have a good career. Just admit it you've been overly critical - his first season was not 'gash' , it was at least decent and quite promising.

[Kaizero]

Revisionism is saying he was gash based on nothing but your own opinion.

 

As stated, it's a fairly common opinion on here that Mitrovic was poor/shit in his first season (go back a few hundred pages to see that), just as it was a common opinion on here that he was OK/decent for a young player in a new country thrown into a mediocre team. So logically you'd be accusing me of revising the past if you think Mitrovic was good/decent. That's a given. I'm not discounting that possibility.

 

The point I made is that from my perspective, because I am in the "Mitro in first season was poor" camp, others seem to be revising the past based on their bias towards the player. You've not really covered that. Another point which I hadn't raised but which you've failed to acknowledge in your factually incorrect statement above is that an additional method of revisionism is retrospectively extrapolating performances from stats and then saying "oh he must have been decent, look at this number on paper, see?", as you've done in your next sentence.

 

Anyway, "nothing but your own opinion" is a tad nonsensical. Everything on here is opinions, including your opinion on interpretation of stats when judging a player (which I'm sure won't be consistent when it comes to universally accepted mediocre/crap players who have good stats on paper occasionally, e.g. Shola in 05/06). Plus, it's not just my own opinion, I've already made the point that noone went near Mitro after relegation, and since his "good debut PL season" he's only played in the Championship, which if anything is far more a concrete argument that supports my view.

 

As a 21 year old newcomer to the Premier League he score 9 goals in 22 starts and 12 sub appearances and contributed 4 assists, while following the guidelines laid out by tactical mastermind Steve McClaren.

 

What more do you expect from a 21 year old new to the PL?

 

Already explained, in some depth too, re: expectations. The stats are decent on paper certainly, but that why I specifically said I went by what I've seen. The poor performances far outweighed the positive stats, and the failure to do the basics as the season wore on is what has led to the opinion I and others have that he had a poor first season in spite of the OK'ish stats. Again, seeing that he's spent 2 years in the Championship since that supposed (according to you) good quality breakthrough first PL season, at a club with an owner who sells at every opportunity and under a world class manager who doesn't rate him, potentially backs that up.

 

Just as another example, according to WhoScored.com Mitrovic had an average rating of 6.67 in 2015/16 for us in the PL. Shola Ameobi had an average rating of 6.72 in 2010/11 (21(7) appearances, 6 PL goals, 3 assists).

 

I've said plenty of times that Rafa and Mitro are mutually exclusive and I'd rather have Rafa, and also elsewhere I think Mitrovic will go on to have a good career. Just admit it you've been overly critical - his first season was not 'gash' , it was at least decent and quite promising.

 

Better GPA than Gayle in the PL for Newcastle. Fairly equal GPA when you include his other clubs in the PL as well. Yet, some people still think Gayle is better - despite the equal stats and age difference. If Mitro was as old as Gayle and has had the same time as Gayle in the PL, then yeah. He's not, and has not, though.

[nufcjb]

loved his goal and celebration against Norwich in that 6-2 win for us

[tmonkey]

 

I've said plenty of times that Rafa and Mitro are mutually exclusive and I'd rather have Rafa, and also elsewhere I think Mitrovic will go on to have a good career. Just admit it you've been overly critical - his first season was not 'gash' , it was at least decent and quite promising.

 

Classic N-O mong response. My fault for thinking spending that time posting a detailed argument wasn't going to be responded with a comically irrelevant shitpost.

[HawK]

 

I've said plenty of times that Rafa and Mitro are mutually exclusive and I'd rather have Rafa, and also elsewhere I think Mitrovic will go on to have a good career. Just admit it you've been overly critical - his first season was not 'gash' , it was at least decent and quite promising.

 

Classic N-O mong response. My fault for thinking spending that time posting a detailed argument wasn't going to be responded with a comically irrelevant shitpost.

 

[Kaizero]

 

I've said plenty of times that Rafa and Mitro are mutually exclusive and I'd rather have Rafa, and also elsewhere I think Mitrovic will go on to have a good career. Just admit it you've been overly critical - his first season was not 'gash' , it was at least decent and quite promising.

 

Classic N-O mong response. My fault for thinking spending that time posting a detailed argument wasn't going to be responded with a comically irrelevant shitpost.

 

 

My favourite part is where he thinks quoting the average rating from whoscored.com means something. At least use actual stats.

[wormy]

 

I've said plenty of times that Rafa and Mitro are mutually exclusive and I'd rather have Rafa, and also elsewhere I think Mitrovic will go on to have a good career. Just admit it you've been overly critical - his first season was not 'gash' , it was at least decent and quite promising.

 

Classic N-O mong response. My fault for thinking spending that time posting a detailed argument wasn't going to be responded with a comically irrelevant shitpost.

 

Wow. Talk about mongs with irrelevant shitposts. Wow.

[TRon]

Be the next Thauvin and worth 50m plus a year after we sell him. Maybe.

 

Happy if he's sold cos Rafa feels he doesn't suit his system or doesn't like his attitude, as long as Rafa stays. If we sell him then Rafa leaves and the above happens I'll be fcuked off frankly. Think he deserves a shot at the premiership with someone.

 

Thauvin always looked like he had the attributes to be a top player though, pace, vision, and end product. His problem was he didn't fancy English football and we had to virtually drag him here regardless. Mitro's been in England a lot longer and seems to like it here.

[TRon]

Incidentally, how much we get for Mitro will be affected by how long is left on his contract. Two years according to nufc.com, so those who think we will get more than £20m are being wildly optimistic IMO.

[joeyt]

Two years is plenty long enough to still get £20mil. Burnley got £30mil for Michael Keane when he had not long left on his contract iirc

[ponsaelius]

Yeah the only time that becomes relevant is if they've got 6-12 months left.

[Kaizero]

Two years is plenty long enough to still get £20mil. Burnley got £30mil for Michael Keane when he had not long left on his contract iirc

 

Keane had one year left when he signed for Everton.

[TRon]

Two years is plenty long enough to still get £20mil. Burnley got £30mil for Michael Keane when he had not long left on his contract iirc

 

I said more than £20m, that was aimed at those who think it's too low a fee and we should be aiming at £30m. Personally I don't think we'll get more than that, but would love it if we get more obviously.

[joeyt]

If we sell him this summer I don't think the fee will be dictated by how long he has left on his contract

[Kaizero]

As things are right now, I'd say we should be looking at somewhere between £20m and £25m. If he has a great WC, who knows what we could get as the clubs who'd want him would be larger than Fulham.