Tooj Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Disgusting lack of Modric defenders in here Always my biggest bug bear when it comes to daft lists like this. THE greatest player ever was Beckenbaeur imo, yet hardly gets a look in against lesser players like Cruyff etc...always biased towards the attackers. Lahm has been one of the greats of the past 5/10 years yet never gets a nod at all. attacking pffff....for pansies. Case in point, Beckenbaur was a brilliant footballer...played in midfield, Lahm is a great footballer...moved to midfield. I think generally defenders aren't as good footballers because they're generally destroyers rather than creators. Beckenbauer started in midfield when he was young but his best years were when he was at the back... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho Time Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I think Nesta was the last defender I really enjoyed watching tbh, I remember one of his battles with Ronaldinho at his peak in the CL and one moment in particular where the ball was behind Ronaldinho in the air, he lifted his leg behind him to tap the ball past Nesta, only for Nesta to do the exact same trick to counter it and take the ball off him. Brilliance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Fair point but it is a game of defence and attack (obviously save for the revolutionary approach of NUFC at the moment ; none of either). To watch a Beckenbaeur, Breitner, Baresi or Maldini perform at their highest levels of defensive brilliance always gave me as much joy as watching a Zidane or Platini ripping the arse out of a defence. Maybe we are lacking a lot of true great defenders in the world game now actually?... I think they're exceptions, but I suppose that's just the way I see it. I think of defenders as being players that are trying to stop football happening rather than making it happen, that's why I put attacking players above defensive players. You have to be truly exceptional at the back to get long-lasting recognition. The thing is though, Maldini for example was a brilliant footballer going forward and was a winger for a while, it's that sort of thing that makes me wonder about players like Beckenbaur, Lahm etc as being brilliant footballers and without being too demeaning, more than defenders. I still love a classy centre back mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Disgusting lack of Modric defenders in here Always my biggest bug bear when it comes to daft lists like this. THE greatest player ever was Beckenbaeur imo, yet hardly gets a look in against lesser players like Cruyff etc...always biased towards the attackers. Lahm has been one of the greats of the past 5/10 years yet never gets a nod at all. attacking pffff....for pansies. Case in point, Beckenbaur was a brilliant footballer...played in midfield, Lahm is a great footballer...moved to midfield. I think generally defenders aren't as good footballers because they're generally destroyers rather than creators. Beckenbauer started in midfield when he was young but his best years were when he was at the back... I wouldn't try and be so bold as to give a reason why that is like, but he did still play in midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Would anyone have Mata creeping into their top 20 on current form? :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Disgusting lack of Modric defenders in here Always my biggest bug bear when it comes to daft lists like this. THE greatest player ever was Beckenbaeur imo, yet hardly gets a look in against lesser players like Cruyff etc...always biased towards the attackers. Lahm has been one of the greats of the past 5/10 years yet never gets a nod at all. attacking pffff....for pansies. Case in point, Beckenbaur was a brilliant footballer...played in midfield, Lahm is a great footballer...moved to midfield. I think generally defenders aren't as good footballers because they're generally destroyers rather than creators. Beckenbauer started in midfield when he was young but his best years were when he was at the back... I wouldn't try and be so bold as to give a reason why that is like, but he did still play in midfield. What? He was the first real Libero. He played in defence and brought the ball out from the back for the majority of his career. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Disgusting lack of Modric defenders in here Always my biggest bug bear when it comes to daft lists like this. THE greatest player ever was Beckenbaeur imo, yet hardly gets a look in against lesser players like Cruyff etc...always biased towards the attackers. Lahm has been one of the greats of the past 5/10 years yet never gets a nod at all. attacking pffff....for pansies. Case in point, Beckenbaur was a brilliant footballer...played in midfield, Lahm is a great footballer...moved to midfield. I think generally defenders aren't as good footballers because they're generally destroyers rather than creators. Beckenbauer started in midfield when he was young but his best years were when he was at the back... I wouldn't try and be so bold as to give a reason why that is like, but he did still play in midfield. What? He was the first real Libero. He played in defence and brought the ball out from the back for the majority of his career. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Disgusting lack of Modric defenders in here Always my biggest bug bear when it comes to daft lists like this. THE greatest player ever was Beckenbaeur imo, yet hardly gets a look in against lesser players like Cruyff etc...always biased towards the attackers. Lahm has been one of the greats of the past 5/10 years yet never gets a nod at all. attacking pffff....for pansies. Case in point, Beckenbaur was a brilliant footballer...played in midfield, Lahm is a great footballer...moved to midfield. I think generally defenders aren't as good footballers because they're generally destroyers rather than creators. Beckenbauer started in midfield when he was young but his best years were when he was at the back... I wouldn't try and be so bold as to give a reason why that is like, but he did still play in midfield. What? He was the first real Libero. He played in defence and brought the ball out from the back for the majority of his career. I didn't say he didn't. My original point was only that he had played in midfield, which he did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Fair point but it is a game of defence and attack (obviously save for the revolutionary approach of NUFC at the moment ; none of either). To watch a Beckenbaeur, Breitner, Baresi or Maldini perform at their highest levels of defensive brilliance always gave me as much joy as watching a Zidane or Platini ripping the arse out of a defence. Maybe we are lacking a lot of true great defenders in the world game now actually?... All of them are praised because of their ability to impact the game further forward though, except Baresi maybe. When people talk about Beckenbaeur they rarely talk about his defensive prowess rather his ability to charge forward and open a team up. Like it or not defending is much more a team game than an individual one, so it's only natural that they are not praised as much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Ponsyalias in being a tool shocker, but Mata is an assist every two games and a goal in every three right now. Scored 10 in 35 last year in an alleged shite team. He's in incredible form. If a suggestion that he's near the top 20 currently is three smiley worthy, I'd sure as shit like to see who's in your top 30. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Bailey Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yeah all very fair and valid points. I know a lot of people who see defending as 'stopping football' or less of an art as an attacking display of a winger, AM or striker Personally thought I like to see the game in the round so to speak and love a good tackle (fnar fnar), or great positional play (shepherding an attacker away from goal etc), which I think we are kind of losing from the game a wee bit. As for the list of today's 'best' Messi and Ronaldo are well ahead of the rest of the best for me. These two will join the all time greatest list imo. not sure the likes of Zlatan et al will quite do that. You wanting Martial in there as well Froggy>> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yeah all very fair and valid points. I know a lot of people who see defending as 'stopping football' or less of an art as an attacking display of a winger, AM or striker Personally thought I like to see the game in the round so to speak and love a good tackle (fnar fnar), or great positional play (shepherding an attacker away from goal etc), which I think we are kind of losing from the game a wee bit. As for the list of today's 'best' Messi and Ronaldo are well ahead of the rest of the best for me. These two will join the all time greatest list imo. not sure the likes of Zlatan et al will quite do that. You wanting Martial in there as well Froggy>> Part of it is the change in rules tbh, i do believe that the game is now geared more to attack than ever has been. The defenders of yesteryear would have more struggles today IMO because of how they game has changed in terms of rules and mindset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Ponsyalias in being a tool shocker, but Mata is an assist every two games and a goal in every three right now. Scored 10 in 35 last year in an alleged shite team. He's in incredible form. If a suggestion that he's near the top 20 currently is three smiley worthy, I'd sure as shit like to see who's in your top 30. Froggy man, being decent or in good form in Man United's team doesn't really mean what it used to anymore. Scoring 10 in 35 isn't even a big deal at all, last season I used Mata's stats as an example of why Ben Arfa should be playing for Newcastle because they were very comparable. I think Mata's mint but just because he's playing well for Man United doesn't mean that there aren't another 19 players in the world that are better than him right now. You've already tried to claim that Rooney is the greatest Man United player of all time, that Smalling is the best defender in the world at the moment and now that Mata is in the top 20 in the world. That would mean that you have De Gea, Smalling, Mata and Rooney as 4 of the best players in the world which is absolute fiction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It's nothing to do with him playing for us though really. He's absolute quality. The shit he does on the ball is unreal, plus he's creating and scoring. I'd just like to know the 20-25 better than him right now. Can only thing of about 10 that are clearly better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Also, K.I., you've got to see when I'm taking the piss man. Rooney is doing my fucking head in. He's a completely different story from Mata and De Gea. Smalling has genuinely been in incredible form since the beginning of the year mind. Deserves some recognition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Rooney will go down as the greatest or one of the greatest of all time for us though like. Without a doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Bailey Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It's nothing to do with him playing for us though really. He's absolute quality. The s*** he does on the ball is unreal, plus he's creating and scoring. I'd just like to know the 20-25 better than him right now. Can only thing of about 10 that are clearly better. He's a decent player no doubt but lets get real here mate. Might make the top 50, but top 10/11 is stretching it....even for a Man U fan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I really cba considering I'm just about to go home, but yes I could, quite easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I can think of 10 players from Bayern and Barca alone which are better than Mata, lets not go there please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Pick the teams with the best players in the world Barcelona Real Madrid Bayern Munich Man City Chelsea Juventus Dortmund Atletico PSG Arsenal Remember that they've usually got 2, 3, 4 or even 5 world class players in each, then do the maths about him being in the top 20. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Spain have got at least 10 players better than Mata on their own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Play Mata central and he may well threaten top 20 status. This business of him on the right is just so unfortunate. He is playing really well at the minute though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 He starts on the right but he drifts in like. He has been ludicrously good recently, Arsenal game aside. He's definitely top 30 for me, and threatening top 20. He has been twenty times better than Sanchez this season, yet Sanchez has two good games and people have him in the top 10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 He's definitely top 30 for me, and threatening top 20. He has been twenty times better than Sanchez this season, yet Sanchez has two good games and people have him in the top 10. Howay man Froggy, Sanchez is pure class. Won the FA Cup and Copa America in the summer after an amazing first season with Arsenal and before that he bossed the World Cup with Chile. Mata was a brilliant player 2 or 3 years ago but he's not on Sanchez's level now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Mata has been shite for Man Utd. He's a dwarf legged waddler who flukes reasonable numbers with goals/assists against garbage outfits despite never controlling a football match since he moved there. De Gea Pique Ramos Alba David Silva Iniesta Busquets Koke Cazorla Fabregas Alonso Thiago Alcantara Xavi Pedro Diego Costa All better than Mata and that's just Spain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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