nemtizz Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 He's had a wonderful preseason tbf to him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 passing isnt the problem, its the lack of energy/mobilty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Which made it even more bizarre that we played him behind the striker last night Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalove Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Finished the season as top goal scorer with 6 goals. Our lowest top scorer in the clubs history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Well your logic stinks. As previously mentioned, the so called destruction came against one of the best teams in the league, where we also had Hayden sent off. On the day we were also missing both Shelvey and ASM and Almiron was being played on the right side, his most ineffective position. After this result it was ditched. Without giving it another go with all 11 men and ASM and Shelvey in the team. Brilliant decision according to you. Um ... no! Meanwhile in the holy grail formation that you claim was so good and got us safe, we still got tonked 3 goals to nil by the same Leicester team at home, but this time with all 11 men on the pitch for the whole game. Not to mention the bottom team in the league battered us previously in this same formation, as did Villa who are also in the relegation zone currently. Yet, according to you that was still fine to remain with that setup despite those results. None of your points make any sense. We played with only 10 men from the 47th minute onwards against Leicester at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Finished the season as top goal scorer with 6 goals. Our lowest top scorer in the clubs history. Another amazing stat. How do we fare on overall goals scored though. Can see it being spun that Bruce has created a much better contributing team..how amazing we have stayed up and Bruce has done the job he has with his strikers letting him down. Or is that the wrong way round too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Well your logic stinks. As previously mentioned, the so called destruction came against one of the best teams in the league, where we also had Hayden sent off. On the day we were also missing both Shelvey and ASM and Almiron was being played on the right side, his most ineffective position. After this result it was ditched. Without giving it another go with all 11 men and ASM and Shelvey in the team. Brilliant decision according to you. Um ... no! Meanwhile in the holy grail formation that you claim was so good and got us safe, we still got tonked 3 goals to nil by the same Leicester team at home, but this time with all 11 men on the pitch for the whole game. Not to mention the bottom team in the league battered us previously in this same formation, as did Villa who are also in the relegation zone currently. Yet, according to you that was still fine to remain with that setup despite those results. None of your points make any sense. We played with only 10 men from the 47th minute onwards against Leicester at home. No we did not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Well your logic stinks. As previously mentioned, the so called destruction came against one of the best teams in the league, where we also had Hayden sent off. On the day we were also missing both Shelvey and ASM and Almiron was being played on the right side, his most ineffective position. After this result it was ditched. Without giving it another go with all 11 men and ASM and Shelvey in the team. Brilliant decision according to you. Um ... no! Meanwhile in the holy grail formation that you claim was so good and got us safe, we still got tonked 3 goals to nil by the same Leicester team at home, but this time with all 11 men on the pitch for the whole game. Not to mention the bottom team in the league battered us previously in this same formation, as did Villa who are also in the relegation zone currently. Yet, according to you that was still fine to remain with that setup despite those results. None of your points make any sense. We played with only 10 men from the 47th minute onwards against Leicester at home. No we did not. I was there (admittedly I left at half time) but I'm fairly certain we'd used all 3 subs by half time and then Schar got injured right at the start of the 2nd half and had to go off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Well your logic stinks. As previously mentioned, the so called destruction came against one of the best teams in the league, where we also had Hayden sent off. On the day we were also missing both Shelvey and ASM and Almiron was being played on the right side, his most ineffective position. After this result it was ditched. Without giving it another go with all 11 men and ASM and Shelvey in the team. Brilliant decision according to you. Um ... no! Meanwhile in the holy grail formation that you claim was so good and got us safe, we still got tonked 3 goals to nil by the same Leicester team at home, but this time with all 11 men on the pitch for the whole game. Not to mention the bottom team in the league battered us previously in this same formation, as did Villa who are also in the relegation zone currently. Yet, according to you that was still fine to remain with that setup despite those results. None of your points make any sense. We played with only 10 men from the 47th minute onwards against Leicester at home. No we did not. I was there (admittedly I left at half time) but I'm fairly certain we'd used all 3 subs by half time and then Schar got injured right at the start of the 2nd half and had to go off. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50908725 Seems you are indeed correct. My mistake. However, my point in the original post still stands. In this game we were already down by two and were not looking a threat to score as usual. Besides, we had already been dealt with by far lesser teams in that formation as I mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Finished the season as top goal scorer with 6 goals. Our lowest top scorer in the clubs history. Jesus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Shelvey is emblematic of everything that is wrong with this club. He's slow but not just slow of pace but he thinks slow and his feet move slow. When he has a chance to step in and make a challenge and seize a loose ball you can watch him move seconds late and then hang his head as play passes him by. Shelvey lacks the tactical ability spot a pattern and suss it out, each situation unique within the short term memory of a gnat. He can't anticipate anything adequately be it defensively or offensively. On the ball the only forward passes he completes are to players who are already wide open. He lacks the vision to unlock a player with his long balls. Those opportunities never register, instead he'll satisfied to ping a long ball directly into the heart of the defense and stands dully watching it headed away (or easily controlled) until the fact that he's failed fully registers inside that bald pate of his. And like Shelvey, the club is always a step or two off the pace. The club always lacks vision and anticipation. The club always plays it safe unless it takes a wild shot in the dark which invariably fails, not spectacularly, but fails in a desultory, morose fashion. Even the times to be joyful are tinged with a sour look and a crappy aftertaste in our mouths. The steak is overcooked and like shoe leather. The vegetables are soggy and limp. The coffee is tepid and the desert obviously has sat out for far too long and was only just an afterthought, anyway. When I play as NUFC in FM, the first thing I always do is sell Jonjo Shelvey when in reality he and the club are indeed two peas in a pod. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickMack Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Shelvey is emblematic of everything that is wrong with this club. He's slow but not just slow of pace but he thinks slow and his feet move slow. When he has a chance to step in and make a challenge and seize a loose ball you can watch him move seconds late and then hang his head as play passes him by. Shelvey lacks the tactical ability spot a pattern and suss it out, each situation unique within the short term memory of a gnat. He can't anticipate anything adequately be it defensively or offensively. On the ball the only forward passes he completes are to players who are already wide open. He lacks the vision to unlock a player with his long balls. Those opportunities never register, instead he'll satisfied to ping a long ball directly into the heart of the defense and stands dully watching it headed away (or easily controlled) until the fact that he's failed fully registers inside that bald pate of his. And like Shelvey, the club is always a step or two off the pace. The club always lacks vision and anticipation. The club always plays it safe unless it takes a wild shot in the dark which invariably fails, not spectacularly, but fails in a desultory, morose fashion. Even the times to be joyful are tinged with a sour look and a crappy aftertaste in our mouths. The steak is overcooked and like shoe leather. The vegetables are soggy and limp. The coffee is tepid and the desert obviously has sat out for far too long and was only just an afterthought, anyway. When I play as NUFC in FM, the first thing I always do is sell Jonjo Shelvey when in reality he and the club are indeed two peas in a pod. Lol It’s like Miggy, I love Miggy, I do think his strongest position is the number 10 role, he played there before we bought him, and arguably has had his best games for us in that position. But on Fifa I play him up top on the right of a front 3 and press triangle every time I can Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 He's far from perfect, certainly, but I think he could be useful in initiating our play from the back, because we have two centre backs that are completely hopeless passing the ball forward without hoofing it. I think we really ought to use a 4-3-3 in order to achieve this. Lining up in the formation below. ---------------------- Wilson -------------------------- --- ASM ------------------------------------ Fraser --- --------- Almiron ---------------- Hayden ------------ ---------------------- Shelvey ------------------------- Lewis ----- Fernandez ----- Lascelles ----- Manquillo Ideally Shelvey should then be dropping back as far as needed to get the ball of the centre backs and should be encouraged to get the ball to the midfielders or wingers ahead of him without always looking for the longest pass, and certainly without constantly going directly to Wilson over the top. It's essentially what Leeds do with Kelvin Philips, not that we can expect to come anywhere close to being that proficient at it even, or even need to at this point. Defensively, I don't think he should press at all, as every time he does they pass it round him like a cone and there are massive gaps behind him as he can never recover. Just ask him to sit deep and close down only when a free man is ahead of him at the edge of our penalty box. A combination of 2 from Almiron, Hayden and Hendrick can do the harrying just ahead of him. It certainly won't be perfect but I'd like to see that given a go. At the moment Hayden is the one that mostly sits and Shelvey is going forward at times when he is never capable of getting back in position. Bruce is having Shelvey go forward more because he got 6 goals last season, which is just the dumbest thing, because it will ultimately cost us more goals than he could ever score. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 I also find it weird that Bruce has previously had a similar player in Huddlestone, who he used far more sensibly, and in the way I think Shelvey should be used. No idea why he can't see it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Plays well when teams give him the freedom of midfield like West Ham and Bournemouth did. Anyone pressing him quickly or man marking him he struggles. He plays a lot better with Gayle or Wilson up front than Joelinton or Carroll Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Shelvey is emblematic of everything that is wrong with this club. He's slow but not just slow of pace but he thinks slow and his feet move slow. When he has a chance to step in and make a challenge and seize a loose ball you can watch him move seconds late and then hang his head as play passes him by. Shelvey lacks the tactical ability spot a pattern and suss it out, each situation unique within the short term memory of a gnat. He can't anticipate anything adequately be it defensively or offensively. On the ball the only forward passes he completes are to players who are already wide open. He lacks the vision to unlock a player with his long balls. Those opportunities never register, instead he'll satisfied to ping a long ball directly into the heart of the defense and stands dully watching it headed away (or easily controlled) until the fact that he's failed fully registers inside that bald pate of his. And like Shelvey, the club is always a step or two off the pace. The club always lacks vision and anticipation. The club always plays it safe unless it takes a wild shot in the dark which invariably fails, not spectacularly, but fails in a desultory, morose fashion. Even the times to be joyful are tinged with a sour look and a crappy aftertaste in our mouths. The steak is overcooked and like shoe leather. The vegetables are soggy and limp. The coffee is tepid and the desert obviously has sat out for far too long and was only just an afterthought, anyway. When I play as NUFC in FM, the first thing I always do is sell Jonjo Shelvey when in reality he and the club are indeed two peas in a pod. I feel that's a little bit harsh, Shelvey is a good passer, and he does have some vision to suss out patterns of play given enough time on the ball to do it. Problem is, in the modern game you don't get much time on the ball and his general lack of pace or engine means he's just not physically capable of playing the game at the top level. That's his real problem, not his awareness. In most games where he's part of our midfield we'll just get overrun unless we sacrifice a forward and have an extra body in there. I've said this since the days of Nicky Butt though. You can't have players without an engine in the heart of midfield and expect to dominate games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 ---------------------- Wilson -------------------------- --- ASM ------------------------------------ Fraser --- --------- Almiron ---------------- Hayden ------------ ---------------------- Shelvey ------------------------- Lewis ----- Fernandez ----- Lascelles ----- Manquillo You know what would be sweet to see with this formation? Merino in the Shelvey role. Or even Longstaff when he first came in to the squad. Even when (mildly) defending Shelvey you can't escape that he's a statue. If he moved any slower he'd be bronze and have bird shit all over his head! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 agree with kaka, given what bruce has done to our CBs if shelvey is on the pitch he needs to be sitting on the CBs looking for the ball problem is you then need the other CMs to be mobile and have enough nouse to be able to move into space and make angles for passes otherwise it's hoofball all the way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiekris Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 ---------------------- Wilson -------------------------- --- ASM ------------------------------------ Fraser --- --------- Almiron ---------------- Hayden ------------ ---------------------- Shelvey ------------------------- Lewis ----- Fernandez ----- Lascelles ----- Manquillo You know what would be sweet to see with this formation? Merino in the Shelvey role. Or even Longstaff when he first came in to the squad. Even when (mildly) defending Shelvey you can't escape that he's a statue. If he moved any slower he'd be bronze and have bird shit all over his head! A decent coach would be grooming young Matty for this role. We’d need midfielders in front of him that want to find space and give him options tho. I find Hayden just wants to play it safe a lot like Colback used to get it end give it back to a CB or sideways to a FB. Sean’s gone off the boil and looks like he can’t keep up with pace of the game at times. Haven’t seen enough of Hendrick yet to comment but hopefully he’ll offer something different. I felt we badly needed midfielders as much as we needed a striker this summmer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 I don’t rate him and won’t go anywhere with him as a starter. Shame as he has that little bit of flair and creativity that I was talking about the other day that I reckon the typical young English midfielder of today lacks. Can’t get around the pitch and causes more problems to us than the opposition. Thought when we signed him we were on to a winner with his raking passes getting the best out of Janmaat’s forward runs and Wijnaldum getting on the end of things in the box as a result. You could argue we could get the legs around him but you couldn’t really play him and a number 10 together. You’d pretty much need two Hayden’s for him to work but you’d still have the problem of the front three being isolated. If Sean Longstaff had a bit more pace and dynamism rather than his one-paced style then again a three might have worked at the expense of a number 10. You’d also need Shelvey to have 7-8 out of 10 good games rather than 3-4. Annoys we wondering where we could have been had we stayed up that season. We might have still struggled to keep Wijnaldum & Sissoko but we could have been in a position to replace them better off the bat rather than having to drop down and sign Championship and low budget players for the next 3 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 bruce will flog shelvey to death thinking he'll repeat his 5 (?) goal streak that won us a few games last season, not understanding we were keeping clean sheets last season and shelvey has never repeated form like that in his career afaik Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 I don't see how Shelvey fits into a midfield two with the options he have beside him. Even though we've seen two matches, I feel Hayden-Hendrick would give us more at both ends of the pitch - and don't feel Shelvey's form is good enough to ditch Hayden if Brewcie wanted to try Shelvey-Hendrick. I wouldn't put Shelvey and either Longstaff (at the moment) together against Morecombe as a midfield two... If he's in a midfield three, then it pretty much has to be in the role KaKa described, but that a) forces us to play a certain way and b) assumes Shelvey deserves to have the formation moulded around him. When he plays as one of two CMs with an AMC in front of them, he always drops too deep and doesn't feel the need to get up and back. Which is why a good manager didn't find a place for him when he settled on his first XI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocker Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 He doesn't do enough in the 90 mins to justify his place. He's completely one-dimensional. I mean, our other options aren't that fucking clever either, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 the only other thing you could do with shelvey would be to take him out of the firing line by playing two DMs behind him to cover all the space he leaves and protect the CBs, everton are p[laying a version of this actually but with better players obvs...along the lines of back 5 DM DM Shelves Fraser ASM Wilson problem with that is he's not really dynamic enough to get up and down in support of the forwards but would arguably be a better option under bacon because shelvey being in the team as part of a two or sitting deep just means long balls...he has improved his fitness and stamina somewhat under bacon, imo, so it might be a better option overall as long as the wide players and shelvey were tunned to play it early and into space either longstaff would cover that position better as well tbh...problem is we only have hayden who can play DM don't we? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 how can such a great passer of the ball not take a decent corner or whip in a free kick unless its a direct effort on goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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