steve_69 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 The more i see and hear about this squad the more i think Shelvey's omission was less to do with ability or temperament - it was to do with the fact that this is a very united, close knit squad that know each other well and enjoy each others' company. Bringing in an outsider at such a late stage could've upset the balance and potentially derailed the campaign. Hopefully, if Shelvey continues where he left off last he'll get his chance and there's time between now and the next major tournament to integrate him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Yeah, I can completely understand why he didn't get picked, but I do think he would have added something for the few minutes he'd get. Nobody outside the first XI has really contributed so it's a moot point really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 On 10/07/2018 at 09:25, Ian W said: Yeah, I can completely understand why he didn't get picked, but I do think he would have added something for the few minutes he'd get. Nobody outside the first XI has really contributed so it's a moot point really. I totally agree. I'd actually have Shelvey starting ahead of Henderson because his vision and range of passing would be a huge asset with so much pace and movement around him. I have changed my mind on Henderson to an extent, he's impressed me throughout this tournament but I still maintain that he doesn't have one outstanding attribute in his arsenal. A harmonious squad is clearly very important to this team's success though, especially when we're not blessed with loads of world class players. I can totally understand why Shelvey was left out but if it continues to happen beyond this tournament I think serious questions have to be asked because as you point out, outside the first 11, no one has stood out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 On 10/07/2018 at 04:58, Altamullan said: Quote If Shelvey was playing we'd be in the final by now. FYP. Just read that on RTG. Whole new level of self-congratulatory vileness there at the moment. Eh? I don't understand. Do you mean they have quoted me on RTG as some kind of indication of our delusion? If so, that's funny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ManDoon Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I like Shelvey as a player but does no one suspect he might be a bit of a dick? As suggested the harmony is good in the squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 On 10/07/2018 at 09:39, steve_69 said: Quote Yeah, I can completely understand why he didn't get picked, but I do think he would have added something for the few minutes he'd get. Nobody outside the first XI has really contributed so it's a moot point really. I totally agree. I'd actually have Shelvey starting ahead of Henderson because his vision and range of passing would be a huge asset with so much pace and movement around him. I have changed my mind on Henderson to an extent, he's impressed me throughout this tournament but I still maintain that he doesn't have one outstanding attribute in his arsenal. A harmonious squad is clearly very important to this team's success though, especially when we're not blessed with loads of world class players. I can totally understand why Shelvey was left out but if it continues to happen beyond this tournament I think serious questions have to be asked because as you point out, outside the first 11, no one has stood out. Personally I think we'd be out already if Shelvey was playing instead of Henderson. Henderson's not impressive at first glance but he's essential to the team. Even just for the fact we don't need a dedicated holding midfielder because he's so athletic and mobile. He doesn't have the range of Shelvey obviously, and I'd like to think Jonjo has a chance in the future if he has another good season. It was never a choice between the two anyway, it would've been someone like Delph who stayed at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 On 10/07/2018 at 09:42, ManDoon said: I like Shelvey as a player but does no one suspect he might be a bit of a dick? As suggested the harmony is good in the squad. Harmony is top notch in our squad by all accounts, including Shelvey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I get the feeling he's maybe just a little more introverted than your average footballer. Despite willing him to be selected, I also thought he would likely be isolated to a degree. No way he shouldn't be involved in the future though. Start picking him for squads once the world cup is over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 On 10/07/2018 at 17:43, Mr Logic said: Quote I like Shelvey as a player but does no one suspect he might be a bit of a dick? As suggested the harmony is good in the squad. Harmony is top notch in our squad by all accounts, including Shelvey. By all accounts he’s a shy quiet retiring type whatever that means and that is an aspect of his character that Rafa has challenged in order to make him push himself more. He plays like that at times. I think the red mist is because he gets easily frustrated. An arm around type player more than anything which is maybe why he hasn’t always looked the part under the demanding Rafa. He needs someone to keep pushing him though. I think we have players in the team that help him in that regards as well, Lascelles and Ritchie namely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 10/07/2018 at 17:43, Mr Logic said: Quote I like Shelvey as a player but does no one suspect he might be a bit of a dick? As suggested the harmony is good in the squad. Harmony is top notch in our squad by all accounts, including Shelvey. I'm not suggesting Shelvey would be a disruptive influence in the England squad, i'm saying that integrating a new player/character into an already tight-knit England squad could have been seen as a risk at such a late stage. Call it over-cautious but you could understand if that was the thinking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie_once_removed Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 When neither he nor Lascelles were selected I thought Southgate had made a mistake. I've changed my mind a bit on not selecting Lascelles, mainly as Maguire has done so well and I get Southgate's system much more now (though I'd still have taken him over Jones). Not taking Shelvey remains in my opinion a big error. He'd not start for me, but take the Colombia game for example, bring on Shelvey instead of Dier in that situation and I feel we could have seen out that game a lot more comfortably. His defensive work is underrated and his passing ability would have pinned Colombia back a bit, especially with Vardy's pace and runs up front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Shelvey has the potential to be deadly in a counter-attacking team, particularly one with an abundance of pace. Tonight's game could be one where his passing ability on the break could've been invaluable if, as expected, there are long periods of the game where we're pegged back by Croatia's midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I think we’ll take the game to Croatia like. They’re better on the ball but our midfield will be everywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Don't understand how anyone watch how we play and think Southgate made a mistake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 11/07/2018 at 13:09, Mole_Toonfan said: Don't understand how anyone watch how we play and think Southgate made a mistake. Name a player not in the starting 11 who has made an impact at the tournament?! That's why.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I’d have taken him as a plan B like but we’ve never needed that yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 11/07/2018 at 13:12, steve_69 said: Quote Don't understand how anyone watch how we play and think Southgate made a mistake. Name a player not in the starting 11 who has made an impact at the tournament?! That's why.... We are in the semi final I simply don't understand why people think Shelvey would fit into what we have done. We defend on the front foot with a lot of sprinting and recovering, there's no way in hell Shelvey would be any good In such a setup. It's thinking like this is why we've failed for so many years, we finally have a team and people are trying to think of ways to mess it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElCid Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 11/07/2018 at 13:23, Mole_Toonfan said: Quote Quote Don't understand how anyone watch how we play and think Southgate made a mistake. Name a player not in the starting 11 who has made an impact at the tournament?! That's why.... We are in the semi final I simply don't understand why people think Shelvey would fit into what we have done. We defend on the front foot with a lot of sprinting and recovering, there's no way in hell Shelvey would be any good In such a setup. It's thinking like this is why we've failed for so many years, we finally have a team and people are trying to think of ways to mess it up. We could have been out against Columbia with the last part of the match and extra time - Southgate got a bit lucky there with bringing Dier on as the game totally changed for the worse. The players coming in for the Belgium game certainly didn’t show anything either. Still maintain Shelvey should have been in that squad as an option with his passing. The first 11 have done well to get this far no doubt but as I said in an earlier post that the first choice members have not had to chase a game from being a goal down yet hopefully it will not happen but I still think Shelvey would have been the best option to have in case it does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcQuillan Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 11/07/2018 at 13:23, Mole_Toonfan said: Quote Quote Don't understand how anyone watch how we play and think Southgate made a mistake. Name a player not in the starting 11 who has made an impact at the tournament?! That's why.... We are in the semi final I simply don't understand why people think Shelvey would fit into what we have done. We defend on the front foot with a lot of sprinting and recovering, there's no way in hell Shelvey would be any good In such a setup. It's thinking like this is why we've failed for so many years, we finally have a team and people are trying to think of ways to mess it up. I think the Tunisia game and spells of the Colombia game they were crying out for him. On top, decent share of possession, needed something different to unlock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 11/07/2018 at 13:23, Mole_Toonfan said: Quote Quote Don't understand how anyone watch how we play and think Southgate made a mistake. Name a player not in the starting 11 who has made an impact at the tournament?! That's why.... We are in the semi final I simply don't understand why people think Shelvey would fit into what we have done. We defend on the front foot with a lot of sprinting and recovering, there's no way in hell Shelvey would be any good In such a setup. It's thinking like this is why we've failed for so many years, we finally have a team and people are trying to think of ways to mess it up. No one can criticise anything Southgate has done because we're in the semi-final of a World Cup, absolutely right. Southgate and the first team have done an amazing job. However, what happens if we win tonight but Kane, Henderson or Maguire get injured or sent off tonight? We're relying on the likes of Vardy, Dier (neither of whom have done anything of note) and either Cahill or Jones. You confident in those players because i'm not? We've been very lucky with injuries and the draw but we won't always be. All i'm saying is that looking forward to the Euros in 2 years time, we need more quality in the squad, including Shelvey and possibly Lascelles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Don't think being in the semis is a strong argument against Shelvey potentially making an impact in this team. We barely beat Tunisia (ok, storming first 30 minutes where we should have scored alot more), thrashed the mighty Panama in style but it's still Panama, barely scraped past a James Rodriguez-less Columbia on penalties where they looked the better footballing side over the 120 minutes, and did alright against a dull defensive Sweden side half comprised of Championship tier players (i.e. the type of players our PL lot are used to playing against). Croatia is going to be the first big test and they're barely decent themselves (scraping past Denmark/Russia on penalties). It's a freak tournament, and I'm not sure we know whether this England side is actually good or not - everyone else is also average/crap and we've had a draw of a lifetime where we won't face a single big gun until the World Cup Final . No Germans, no Argentina, no Brazil, no Portugal, no Spain, no Italy, none of the usual lot who tend to knock us out, and maybe one game against the French. The stars have aligned for once (hopefully). In terms of Shelvey, I think it's insane to not have taken him. He might not suit Southgate's system, and the team probably is finely balanced (the three CB's effectively do what Shelvey does for us in terms of spreading the play from deep, Alli/Lingard are more like false CM's who join the attack alot providing the sort of off-the-ball movement Shelvey doesn't, Henderson does the donkey work which isn't Shelvey's playstyle). However, Shelvey in the past season is comfortably in the top 5 passers in the PL imo (De Bruyne obviously way out in 1st place). He's also very neat in possession. Whilst he's not tested outside of the PL, I'd at least want the option of taking a CB off and sticking Shelvey in front of the defense, spraying balls forward, in situations where England desperately need a goal. It's better than throwing the likes of Dier on and hoping they do something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 tmonkey is bang on. At the end of the day, regardless of what "achievements" England have done, and let's be honest the only decent team we played defeated us, Shelvey is far superior than at least three of the midfielders included in the squad. The midfield we have taken are very similar in style, Shelvey would have been another option. I personally think we will progress to the final but many fans will be saying "why haven't we got a player to deliver a killer pass". We have but unfortunately at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I hate to be that guy but I’m going to be - we can’t retain the ball for shit in midfield and we’re being overrun. Our options are Dier and Delph. Whether we win or not, right now is exactly what I’ve been talking about. Shelvey would be a fucking Godsend right now. Instead Gareth has called upon a left-back. ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Shelvey would be a much better option than Delph, don’t think any could disagree. He’d still not get on the pitch though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Of course he would! We haven’t had the ball since 45 minutes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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