Dave Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Norwich. Ah of course. The game where subs were made sooner rather than later and we were forced to play two strikers. Amost makes sense to try this more when we are behind. We'd conceded three goals before we made the first sub. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Norwich. Ah of course. The game where subs were made sooner rather than later and we were forced to play two strikers. Amost makes sense to try this more when we are behind. We were losing when we made the first sub. Freakish 6 mins added. Two early changes from 70 mins went 442 and won. Mitro & Hayden. For Diame & Colback. Atsu came on for the last 6 mins. Its better than trying an extra attacker with a couple of minutes left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 We cant spend 3-4 seasons blaming managers for how awful we are and not criticise Benitez for the utter shite hes served up lately. The man is stubborn and has the team playing in one way and one way only, he needs to adapt and be flexible with the expensive squad HE put together. Make subs to influence the game BEFORE we concede would be a great start. The stubbornness with 4231 is getting on my nerves, this for me explains the subs situation as well. His changes are always like for like, until the striker comes on if we are losing. I just think you have to adapt at times. Isn't the argument that Rafa isn't panicking, like previous managers, and isn't chopping and changing systems just because of a dip in form ? I'm more than happy to support Rafa in his belief that maintaining a consistent pattern of play and structure will bear more fruit than constantly changing things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Norwich. Ah of course. The game where subs were made sooner rather than later and we were forced to play two strikers. Amost makes sense to try this more when we are behind. We were losing when we made the first sub. The second,third? No, it's only once we've come from behind to win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Just had a look in the 4-3 thread and everyone was complaining about how late the subs were in that match anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsley Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 We cant spend 3-4 seasons blaming managers for how awful we are and not criticise Benitez for the utter s**** hes served up lately. The man is stubborn and has the team playing in one way and one way only, he needs to adapt and be flexible with the expensive squad HE put together. Make subs to influence the game BEFORE we concede would be a great start. So we have to criticise Rafa to be fair to Pardew and McClaren? As if a temporary blip in an otherwise impressive campaign is on a par with the masses of s**** that we've had to put with in recent times? If anything, the sorry state of Rafa's predecessors should offer some perspective on the extent of the rebuild job he's currently overseeing. In some respects that is perfectly true but in regard to subs, formations and tactics during a game it has absolutely nothing to do with it. Not making subs until it's too late, playing a system that needs a tweak during a game has nothing to do with Pardew, McClaren or anyone else. It's perfectly fair for any of us to say it isn't working when it clearly isn't at any given time. It's not hysterical or wrong to comment on flaws in what Rafas doing. The man and what he's doing with the club are brilliant, the football side will follow i've no doubt at all, but to ignore clear failings in something i've no doubt he'll sort out is ridiculous just because he's Rafa. I never said that Rafa is beyond reproach; I agree that the substitutions were too reactive today and ultimately came too late. I only took issue with the suggestion that Rafa should be criticised simply because we've blamed other managers in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Just had a look in the 4-3 thread and everyone was complaining about how late the subs were in that match anyway. Not that late. Had 26 minutes to do something. But yeah i can understand freaking out at the then top rival side at home 3-1down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 'Then top rival' being an apt description. 10 games in, Norwich are pulling away from us, think it's looking more and more likely that we are battling it out for the last auto place and play offs with a bunch of other teams. With our resources, that's not good enough, disappointed in Rafa, through this first quarterish of the season. 3 Losses at home in 5 is pathetic, in this division. That's Norwich who are now 15 points behind us. We're definitely doomed though, now we're only 2nd with 63 points left to play for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 KI is right like, it's pointless even trying to debate with some of this fuckng nonesense. Best off just wait until we turn it around and stay out of this thread for my own sanity after a loss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 fuckng nonesense Too right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 We cant spend 3-4 seasons blaming managers for how awful we are and not criticise Benitez for the utter s**** hes served up lately. The man is stubborn and has the team playing in one way and one way only, he needs to adapt and be flexible with the expensive squad HE put together. Make subs to influence the game BEFORE we concede would be a great start. So we have to criticise Rafa to be fair to Pardew and McClaren? As if a temporary blip in an otherwise impressive campaign is on a par with the masses of s**** that we've had to put with in recent times? If anything, the sorry state of Rafa's predecessors should offer some perspective on the extent of the rebuild job he's currently overseeing. In some respects that is perfectly true but in regard to subs, formations and tactics during a game it has absolutely nothing to do with it. Not making subs until it's too late, playing a system that needs a tweak during a game has nothing to do with Pardew, McClaren or anyone else. It's perfectly fair for any of us to say it isn't working when it clearly isn't at any given time. It's not hysterical or wrong to comment on flaws in what Rafas doing. The man and what he's doing with the club are brilliant, the football side will follow i've no doubt at all, but to ignore clear failings in something i've no doubt he'll sort out is ridiculous just because he's Rafa. I never said that Rafa is beyond reproach; I agree that the substitutions were too reactive today and ultimately came too late. I only took issue with the suggestion that Rafa should be criticised simply because we've blamed other managers in the past. Well i think we should criticise any manager whoever they are if they get it wrong, as long as we aren't going mentally over the top when it's clear it's a tweak here or there needed. After we're all managers who know better from our armchairs aren't we, especially in hindsight I do know what you mean though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 We cant spend 3-4 seasons blaming managers for how awful we are and not criticise Benitez for the utter shite hes served up lately. The man is stubborn and has the team playing in one way and one way only, he needs to adapt and be flexible with the expensive squad HE put together. Make subs to influence the game BEFORE we concede would be a great start. The stubbornness with 4231 is getting on my nerves, this for me explains the subs situation as well. His changes are always like for like, until the striker comes on if we are losing. I just think you have to adapt at times. Isn't the argument that Rafa isn't panicking, like previous managers, and isn't chopping and changing systems just because of a dip in form ? I'm more than happy to support Rafa in his belief that maintaining a consistent pattern of play and structure will bear more fruit than constantly changing things. We should be concentrating more results than pattern of play when we are losing though especially with the inconsistent form we are in. A defeat is a defeat at the end of the day. I'd just like to see a more proactive manager when we go behind in the 2nd half of games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 'Then top rival' being an apt description. 10 games in, Norwich are pulling away from us, think it's looking more and more likely that we are battling it out for the last auto place and play offs with a bunch of other teams. With our resources, that's not good enough, disappointed in Rafa, through this first quarterish of the season. 3 Losses at home in 5 is pathetic, in this division. That's Norwich who are now 15 points behind us. We're definitely doomed though, now we're only 2nd with 63 points left to play for. You dont think we should try to look at the potential defeat we have turned into one positive,and the 7 we have not. Just carry on, dont question anything. And be happy when we look utter shit vs weak opponents.👏👍 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Embarrassed by some of the nackers on here like. Honestly KI, your are pathetic at times. People are rightly concerned from 4 defeats in 7 league games. Except that being concerned isn't what I find embarrassing. Carry on with your needlessly inflammatory tirades with everyone though. While you're right about some of the OTT comments...you rarely add to a discussion these days. It's always just a snide insult. You ok? I don't think there's really anything insightful to add, we have an imperfect manager who is far better than anything we could have asked for. He's open to criticism just like anyone and he has his faults but I think the way some people go on is counterproductive and borderline deluded imo, which is a tag associated with us that is disappointing to see in real life. I'm along for the ride and accepting of who Rafa is rather than questioning every tiny little thing, because I trust him and trust his record. I don't think that having a bit of faith in someone like Rafa is a bad thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 'Then top rival' being an apt description. 10 games in, Norwich are pulling away from us, think it's looking more and more likely that we are battling it out for the last auto place and play offs with a bunch of other teams. With our resources, that's not good enough, disappointed in Rafa, through this first quarterish of the season. 3 Losses at home in 5 is pathetic, in this division. That's Norwich who are now 15 points behind us. We're definitely doomed though, now we're only 2nd with 63 points left to play for. You dont think we should try to look at the potential defeat we have turned into one positive,and the 7 we have not. Just carry on, dont question anything. And be happy when we look utter shit vs weak opponents.👏👍 Aye I'm delighted we lost today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 KI is right like, it's pointless even trying to debate with some of this fuckng nonesense. Best off just wait until we turn it around and stay out of this thread for my own sanity after a loss. Absolutely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 'Then top rival' being an apt description. 10 games in, Norwich are pulling away from us, think it's looking more and more likely that we are battling it out for the last auto place and play offs with a bunch of other teams. With our resources, that's not good enough, disappointed in Rafa, through this first quarterish of the season. 3 Losses at home in 5 is pathetic, in this division. That's Norwich who are now 15 points behind us. We're definitely doomed though, now we're only 2nd with 63 points left to play for. You dont think we should try to look at the potential defeat we have turned into one positive,and the 7 we have not. Just carry on, dont question anything. And be happy when we look utter shit vs weak opponents.👏👍 The point is that we haven't been 'shite' and that Rafa's stubborness actually has us in 2nd place. We're overreacting to a bad run of form like we were back then. He's identified areas we need to strengthen so he sees the problems. Him not changing up the formation is just something we're going to have to live with knowing that his record suggests he knows what he's doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Who's saying don't question anything? If he wants to have his learning curve whilst keeping us within distance of the given league leaders and in a promotion place then I'm happy to see what happens. We all know what's wrong, people are embarrassingly resorting to straw man arguments and nth degree suppositions - web twattery 101. At this stage, we should or see what happens with the window and see how he reacts over the next 3 games. I'll be aiming mclaren jibes soon enough if it's just recent same ol same ol but that same ol same ol has also got us here - time to tweak and over to you Rafa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 'Then top rival' being an apt description. 10 games in, Norwich are pulling away from us, think it's looking more and more likely that we are battling it out for the last auto place and play offs with a bunch of other teams. With our resources, that's not good enough, disappointed in Rafa, through this first quarterish of the season. 3 Losses at home in 5 is pathetic, in this division. That's Norwich who are now 15 points behind us. We're definitely doomed though, now we're only 2nd with 63 points left to play for. You dont think we should try to look at the potential defeat we have turned into one positive,and the 7 we have not. Just carry on, dont question anything. And be happy when we look utter shit vs weak opponents.👏👍 The point is that we haven't been 'shite' and that Rafa's stubborness actually has us in 2nd place. We're overreacting to a bad run of form like we were back then. He's identified areas we need to strengthen so he sees the problems. Him not changing up the formation is just something we're going to have to live with knowing that his record suggests he knows what he's doing. http://img.picturequotes.com/2/545/544795/giving-up-quote-1.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 'Then top rival' being an apt description. 10 games in, Norwich are pulling away from us, think it's looking more and more likely that we are battling it out for the last auto place and play offs with a bunch of other teams. With our resources, that's not good enough, disappointed in Rafa, through this first quarterish of the season. 3 Losses at home in 5 is pathetic, in this division. That's Norwich who are now 15 points behind us. We're definitely doomed though, now we're only 2nd with 63 points left to play for. You dont think we should try to look at the potential defeat we have turned into one positive,and the 7 we have not. Just carry on, dont question anything. And be happy when we look utter shit vs weak opponents.👏👍 The point is that we haven't been 'shite' and that Rafa's stubborness actually has us in 2nd place. We're overreacting to a bad run of form like we were back then. He's identified areas we need to strengthen so he sees the problems. Him not changing up the formation is just something we're going to have to live with knowing that his record suggests he knows what he's doing. http://img.picturequotes.com/2/545/544795/giving-up-quote-1.jpg Get to the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Who's saying don't question anything? If he wants to have his learning curve whilst keeping us within distance of the given league leaders and in a promotion place then I'm happy to see what happens. We all know what's wrong, people are embarrassingly resorting to straw man arguments and nth degree suppositions - web twattery 101. At this stage, we should or see what happens with the window and see how he reacts over the next 3 games. I'll be aiming mclaren jibes soon enough if it's just recent same ol same ol but that same ol same ol has also got us here - time to tweak and over to you Rafa. The other thing these recent struggles will do is help loosen the purse strings which can't be a bad thing. We've managed to cope with several players that are naturally shite (Colback, Gouffran), have been patchy (Lascelles, Diame, Ritchie, Atsu) or are downright playing badly (Perez) up to now. Despite our position there's only actually Gayle, Shelvey, Clark, Darlow and perhaps Hayden that have performed consistently well IMO. Looks like it needs freshening up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 'Then top rival' being an apt description. 10 games in, Norwich are pulling away from us, think it's looking more and more likely that we are battling it out for the last auto place and play offs with a bunch of other teams. With our resources, that's not good enough, disappointed in Rafa, through this first quarterish of the season. 3 Losses at home in 5 is pathetic, in this division. That's Norwich who are now 15 points behind us. We're definitely doomed though, now we're only 2nd with 63 points left to play for. You dont think we should try to look at the potential defeat we have turned into one positive,and the 7 we have not. Just carry on, dont question anything. And be happy when we look utter shit vs weak opponents.👏👍 The point is that we haven't been 'shite' and that Rafa's stubborness actually has us in 2nd place. We're overreacting to a bad run of form like we were back then. He's identified areas we need to strengthen so he sees the problems. Him not changing up the formation is just something we're going to have to live with knowing that his record suggests he knows what he's doing. http://img.picturequotes.com/2/545/544795/giving-up-quote-1.jpg Unless you mean 'expecting him to know what he's doing'? He's a manager who consistently wins trophies, he obviously knows what he's doing. Him not making subs until whenever he fancies isn't bad management because some FM experts wanted to bring Murphy on 10 minutes earlier. I'm not saying he got tonight right, or the Wednesday game right. It's fine to disagree with his decisions. But he obviously has a reason for what he's doing, he's not just winging it like Carver. People are acting like he's fucking clueless, it's absurd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNGLEGIONNAIRE Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Game stats are showing that we are controlling and dominating games , but at the moment we are not turning this domination into wins , and this is against pretty impotent opposition. We are too ponderous , which does not allow us to always get the best out of a fairly potent striker . I do think Rafa is being a little too stubborn , choosing to drill his blueprint into the team relentlessly instead of tweaking here and there when the situation demands . Another worrying factor is momentum . We've certainly let a few teams around us gain this psychological advantage recently . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 You could just rinse and repeat all the comments after Sheff Wed, tbh. The frustrating aspect of the defeats, and the way we're being defeated, is that the changes keep arriving far too late and the same thing keeps happening. But, as said then, he clearly doesn't trust members of the squad enough to deviate and bring different players in, so he needs to spend in January. Another frustrating as fuck defeat that should have been three points, but still comfortably in the top two and we're a game closer to Shelvey being back/new players coming in. As Dave says, we're in dire need of a freshen-up after having forced some results, with weaker players being saved by the existence of our better ones. Time to get more of those better ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 First and foremost we need signings who will improve us in midfield. The midfield isn't good enough especially Colback and Gouffran. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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