TRon Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 again, thought it worth pointing out for those who want rafa to make changes that he's a coach who believes in his system and training involves relentlessly running drills etc. in training so that the players understand it and can execute it his response to some setbacks is not going to be to change the fucking system, it's going to be to run more drills and improve training so that they execute his plan properly there was nothing wrong with the plan today, it was working well but the moment the other side started getting into the game colback fell apart (see the mistakes he made leading up to the goal) and gave away a fucking ludicrous free kick that gifted them the goal i'd criticise him for picking colback, nothing else, hopefully he's learned his lesson I thought he'd have learned it a lot quicker really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Yeah, not worried about Rafa long term, but short term his hesitation to make subs is becoming annoying, whilst at it is a case of we must score first or else we won't win. Every team goes through a blip but the way teams set up against us it is incredibly hard for us to recover a match if we are losing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Well Rafa is going to have to come up with a new plan now we're without Shelvey and Diame for the next few games. Perez and Colback certainly aren't like for like replacements. I forgot about that. You know the answer will be to leave Colback in there and bring in Perez for Diame. It's predictable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Well Rafa is going to have to come up with a new plan now we're without Shelvey and Diame for the next few games. Perez and Colback certainly aren't like for like replacements. Atsu too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBingo Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Christ it's like RTG in here... Agreed. We have some absolute f***ing clowns among our 'support'. So Rafa not open to questioning of tactics and formation cos he is rafa ? Of course he is, but some are going way way over the top. The concept of 'support' seems to have passed a few by. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiedean Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 lets be honest here if we do not get promoted with the squad we have and the money invested it will be a monumental failure of Rafas part and he will not stick around for a second year in this division likewise a few players. This should not be overlooked all of our defeats have been errors on his behalf tactically. He should not be getting outfoxed by people like owen fucking coyle and the nobodies at wednesday wolves and forest He is not exempt from criticism at all and needs to look at things differently. The persistence on playing 1 up front at home against the shit of the division is baffling. we should be steamrollering teams especially at home in a way man united used to under fergie. we should not be playing too cautiously Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 You can still criticise Benitez without hounding him out and it's quite clear there are problems. Despite the goal difference, I don't trust us to score past teams. We struggle with creativity and I think a clear formula has emerged on how to beat us. Game management is poor because subs are having no impact. The loyalty to Colback is baffling - I expected better from Rafa. That tells me if we attack team a lot more and Rafa didn't over think things we would be ripping the league to bits. Ronaldo said much earlier in the season that Burnley won the league at a stroll playing 4-4-2 (not that debate by the way) playing a midfield of Arfield/Barton/Boyd......can't exactly remember the players but the point was valid. Not world beaters but set up just like Brighton are now, simple, effective and attacking. Rafa is complicating it a bit when he really doesn't need to (not at this level anyway). Good post. Villa away was a demonstration of needless conservatism from Rafa. We could have gone on to beat them by more but tried to sit off despite Villa being very poor. Lucky to get a draw by the end of it. Think our build up play is also very predictable and teams are managing now to prevent us from penetrating into midfield. Having Mitrovic would offer us great variation and I personally don't think that the extra CM (Diame) is worth it against the likes of Blackburn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Anyone considered the fact he's used to working with significantly superior players than he has at his disposal at present? Not just in terms of talent, but intelligence and ability to follow tactics and instruction. I bet he's as frustrated with them as any of us. This is obviously giving him the benefit of the doubt but whilst it's easy to say losing Shelvey shouldn't have had such an impact, if he's one of the players Benitez has seen the quality in and has therefore invested time and effort into building the team around him then it's less of a surprise his absence is being felt so much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Embarrassed by some of the nackers on here like. Honestly KI, your are pathetic at times. People are rightly concerned from 4 defeats in 7 league games. Except that being concerned isn't what I find embarrassing. Carry on with your needlessly inflammatory tirades with everyone though. While you're right about some of the OTT comments...you rarely add to a discussion these days. It's always just a snide insult. You ok? I don't think there's really anything insightful to add, we have an imperfect manager who is far better than anything we could have asked for. He's open to criticism just like anyone and he has his faults but I think the way some people go on is counterproductive and borderline deluded imo, which is a tag associated with us that is disappointing to see in real life. I'm along for the ride and accepting of who Rafa is rather than questioning every tiny little thing, because I trust him and trust his record. I don't think that having a bit of faith in someone like Rafa is a bad thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Confirms Sammy is returning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 You can still criticise Benitez without hounding him out and it's quite clear there are problems. Despite the goal difference, I don't trust us to score past teams. We struggle with creativity and I think a clear formula has emerged on how to beat us. Game management is poor because subs are having no impact. The loyalty to Colback is baffling - I expected better from Rafa. That tells me if we attack team a lot more and Rafa didn't over think things we would be ripping the league to bits. Ronaldo said much earlier in the season that Burnley won the league at a stroll playing 4-4-2 (not that debate by the way) playing a midfield of Arfield/Barton/Boyd......can't exactly remember the players but the point was valid. Not world beaters but set up just like Brighton are now, simple, effective and attacking. Rafa is complicating it a bit when he really doesn't need to (not at this level anyway). Good post. Villa away was a demonstration of needless conservatism from Rafa. We could have gone on to beat them by more but tried to sit off despite Villa being very poor. Lucky to get a draw by the end of it. Think our build up play is also very predictable and teams are managing now to prevent us from penetrating into midfield. Having Mitrovic would offer us great variation and I personally don't think that the extra CM (Diame) is worth it against the likes of Blackburn. Rafa is all about controlling the game, that's fine but in this league i think you can win easily without worrying too much about that. You don't attack recklessly, but control for control sake gives you predictable, slow and rigidness. But he is what he is, it's why he's so successful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiesteve710 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I'm not going to start criticising Rafa, partly because I don't subscribe to this view that our squad is by far and away the best in this league. Imo we are where we are due to the manager and in spite of the squad, not the other way around. That said, we've conceded the first goal 7 times and lost every one. By anyone's standards that is woeful and something is wrong. The players would struggle to assemble a proper set of testicles between them but leaving subs to the last 10 minutes is pointless, might as well not bother. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Colback must have Rafa's nudes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Anyone considered the fact he's used to working with significantly superior players than he has at his disposal at present? Not just in terms of talent, but intelligence and ability to follow tactics and instruction. I bet he's as frustrated with them as any of us. This is obviously giving him the benefit of the doubt but whilst it's easy to say losing Shelvey shouldn't have had such an impact, if he's one of the players Benitez has seen the quality in and has therefore invested time and effort into building the team around him then it's less of a surprise his absence is being felt so much. I don't think what he's asking us to do is beyond most of these players, it's the likes of Colback and Dummet who don't have the technical ability to play on the ball. If you try to dominate the ball but don't have 11 players who are comfortable on the ball it will break down. Also don't think he'd persist with instructions that players can't understand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Still find it daft that we don't use the 442 battering ram alongside a goal poacher system against these championship clogger teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 As I said during the match, the signs were there on about 65 minutes that we were getting frustrated and letting them into the game. To then let another 20 minutes pass before Atsu came on, in the meantime we'd conceded and brought Perez on who is in awful form, well that was baffling and it's not the first time we've seen it unravel when our patient gameplan is proving fruitless. It's all just getting a bit stale now from when you see the teamsheet to the actual performance, we need signings in attacking positions and are desperately missing Shelvey imo, but that said the results recently haven't been good enough given our personnel versus what we're up against. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsley Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Colback must have Rafa's nudes. There are next to no alternatives man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Anyone considered the fact he's used to working with significantly superior players than he has at his disposal at present? Not just in terms of talent, but intelligence and ability to follow tactics and instruction. I bet he's as frustrated with them as any of us. This is obviously giving him the benefit of the doubt but whilst it's easy to say losing Shelvey shouldn't have had such an impact, if he's one of the players Benitez has seen the quality in and has therefore invested time and effort into building the team around him then it's less of a surprise his absence is being felt so much. I don't think what he's asking us to do is beyond most of these players, it's the likes of Colback and Dummet who don't have the technical ability to play on the ball. If you try to dominate the ball but don't have 11 players who are comfortable on the ball it will break down. Also don't think he'd persist with instructions that players can't understand. He should be playing a system that gets the best out of the players from his disposal, it's clear our midfielders aren't suited to his 4231 formation without Shelvey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Anyone considered the fact he's used to working with significantly superior players than he has at his disposal at present? Not just in terms of talent, but intelligence and ability to follow tactics and instruction. I bet he's as frustrated with them as any of us. This is obviously giving him the benefit of the doubt but whilst it's easy to say losing Shelvey shouldn't have had such an impact, if he's one of the players Benitez has seen the quality in and has therefore invested time and effort into building the team around him then it's less of a surprise his absence is being felt so much. I don't think what he's asking us to do is beyond most of these players, it's the likes of Colback and Dummet who don't have the technical ability to play on the ball. If you try to dominate the ball but don't have 11 players who are comfortable on the ball it will break down. Also don't think he'd persist with instructions that players can't understand. He should be playing a system that gets the best out of the players from his disposal, it's clear our midfielders aren't suited to his 4231 formation without Shelvey. We don't have the wider players in the 3, we don't need 2 defensive midfielders (unless Hayden puts in Reading/Birmingham style performances), we don't have any midfielders who can/attempt to get alongside/beyond the forward. We are very formulaic and so far our superior quality has got us where we are, should that confidence go then we'll struggle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 We have a squad that for the most part has put us in this league. Every team sees us as a scalp and every manager is going to want to pit themselves against a man who's won things at elite level. We also are in the infancy of a delicate transition from water treaders to something that we can actually buy into and the players are adapting to the same, as is Rafa. As long as the mistakes being made aren't the same Recurrent in 2-3 weeks time then we should always temper this with the previous points. Rafa has apparently repeated a mantra of time needed and unlike previous incumbents it isn't to save their own skin or divert criticism but to have the flexibility to figure out the best plan as he has the capability. I'm curious given what many were saying about not losing a game this season, to how widespread a view that was, because I think given our good league position still and some of our stats that expectations are wildly different. This isn't the premier league but we aren't a stable premier league squad either, we'd probably be able to make up the numbers at this point but we're where we deserve to be and we'll have our moments of pennance. I believe tonight we were largely in control though lacked the killer ability of the likes of shelvey and were genuinely unlucky on occasion without bemoaning luck. Jack colback genuinely fucked us and it is a concern certain players (colback, gouffran) and methods are being deployed but it's all part of this process. I'm yet to be fully convinced that Rafa will get full backing without dredging that up too much but we are still a delicate giant even in a lesser league. A lot of fragile politics and methods that will take time to fortify and improve on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Anyone considered the fact he's used to working with significantly superior players than he has at his disposal at present? Not just in terms of talent, but intelligence and ability to follow tactics and instruction. I bet he's as frustrated with them as any of us. This is obviously giving him the benefit of the doubt but whilst it's easy to say losing Shelvey shouldn't have had such an impact, if he's one of the players Benitez has seen the quality in and has therefore invested time and effort into building the team around him then it's less of a surprise his absence is being felt so much. I don't think what he's asking us to do is beyond most of these players, it's the likes of Colback and Dummet who don't have the technical ability to play on the ball. If you try to dominate the ball but don't have 11 players who are comfortable on the ball it will break down. Also don't think he'd persist with instructions that players can't understand. He should be playing a system that gets the best out of the players from his disposal, it's clear our midfielders aren't suited to his 4231 formation without Shelvey. Well this is the trust part. He trust 4-2-3-1 far more than he trust the players. I think it's a simple as that to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leazes_End_Mag Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 7 losses is pathetic. Not interested in adapting his style/tactics when things aren't working, which is quite surprising given he's seen as a 'tactical mastermind'. Don't get me started on the subs. He might have improved things off the pitch, but imagine if McClaren/Carver/Pardew produced results like this... For someone with his experience and status he's been very disappointing, imo. 5 points up to Brighton if they win their game in hand. Bang on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsley Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 We have a squad that for the most part has put us in this league. Every team sees us as a scalp and every manager is going to want to pit themselves against a man who's won things at elite level. We also are in the infancy of a delicate transition from water treaders to something that we can actually buy into and the players are adapting to the same, as is Rafa. As long as the mistakes being made aren't the same Recurrent in 2-3 weeks time then we should always temper this with the previous points. Rafa has apparently repeated a mantra of time needed and unlike previous incumbents it isn't to save their own skin or divert criticism but to have the flexibility to figure out the best plan as he has the capability. I'm curious given what many were saying about not losing a game this season, to how widespread a view that was, because I think given our good league position still and some of our stats that expectations are wildly different. This isn't the premier league but we aren't a stable premier league squad either, we'd probably be able to make up the numbers at this point but we're where we deserve to be and we'll have our moments of pennance. I believe tonight we were largely in control though lacked the killer ability of the likes of shelvey and were genuinely unlucky on occasion without bemoaning luck. Jack colback genuinely f***ed us and it is a concern certain players (colback, gouffran) and methods are being deployed but it's all part of this process. I'm yet to be fully convinced that Rafa will get full backing without dredging that up too much but we are still a delicate giant even in a lesser league. A lot of fragile politics and methods that will take time to fortify and improve on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 5 defeats out of the last 9. Think he needs to spend some serious cash - we have made a lot of changes but it looks like we need more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Today and Sheff Wed were absolutely diabolical and reminiscent of McClaren. Opposition making subs to change the game and us just sitting on 0-0 without any real penetration, only making subs when it's far too late ffs. Picks Colback again and again and still doesn't realise that he's key to our shitty results of late. Wake the fuck up Rafa, all the other teams are winning and your total lack of flexibility is costing us points now. Also, the reliance on Gayle is embarrassing. Strikers on the bench never get more than 5 or 10 minutes and it's so so frustrating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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