mighty__mag Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 'Then top rival' being an apt description. 10 games in, Norwich are pulling away from us, think it's looking more and more likely that we are battling it out for the last auto place and play offs with a bunch of other teams. With our resources, that's not good enough, disappointed in Rafa, through this first quarterish of the season. 3 Losses at home in 5 is pathetic, in this division. That's Norwich who are now 15 points behind us. We're definitely doomed though, now we're only 2nd with 63 points left to play for. You dont think we should try to look at the potential defeat we have turned into one positive,and the 7 we have not. Just carry on, dont question anything. And be happy when we look utter shit vs weak opponents.👏👍 The point is that we haven't been 'shite' and that Rafa's stubborness actually has us in 2nd place. We're overreacting to a bad run of form like we were back then. He's identified areas we need to strengthen so he sees the problems. Him not changing up the formation is just something we're going to have to live with knowing that his record suggests he knows what he's doing. http://img.picturequotes.com/2/545/544795/giving-up-quote-1.jpg Unless you mean 'expecting him to know what he's doing'? He's a manager who consistently wins trophies, he obviously knows what he's doing. Him not making subs until whenever he fancies isn't bad management because some FM experts wanted to bring Murphy on 10 minute earlier. I'm not saying he got tonight right, or the Wednesday game right. It's fine to disagree with his decisions. But he obviously has a reason for what he's doing, he's not just winging it like Carver. People are acting like he's fucking clueless, it's absurd. No they aren't. Frustrated fans are kicking off at the lack of plan B when we go behind. Lack of trying something new/Different. Over thinking this league and the competition we are up against is ridiculous. I would be interested to see us when we lose these player's to ACN and if we lost some to injury just what personel we would throw together to continue to salvage 4231. Me personally would just shove my best 11 out in their favoured positions, and not be forcing players that cant play number 10 to play it. Just out of curiosity how would you like to see us set up. Whats your best 11. Forget Rafa for a minute. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 You could just rinse and repeat all the comments after Sheff Wed, tbh. The frustrating aspect of the defeats, and the way we're being defeated, is that the changes keep arriving far too late and the same thing keeps happening. But, as said then, he clearly doesn't trust members of the squad enough to deviate and bring different players in, so he needs to spend in January. Another frustrating as f*** defeat that should have been three points, but still comfortably in the top two and we're a game closer to Shelvey being back/new players coming in. As Dave says, we're in dire need of a freshen-up after having forced some results, with weaker players being saved by the existence of our better ones. Time to get more of those better ones. Could he have maybe freshened things up by formation/tactics as much as personnel ? I've known other managers do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 "Over thinking this league" Keep reading that and it's utter horse shite like. Just hoy 11 players out and tell them to attack, we'll blow teams away!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 And I'd like us to set up 4-4-2, but I'm not a football manager and generally have little clue what the fuck I'm going onabout. Probably not the best man for the job like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 And I'd like us to set up 4-4-2, but I'm not a football manager and generally have little clue what the fuck I'm going onabout. Probably not the best man for the job like. Why 442 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 And I'd like us to set up 4-4-2, but I'm not a football manager and generally have little clue what the fuck I'm going onabout. Probably not the best man for the job like. Why 442 Because as I said I have little clue what I'm talking about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Well bizarrely id guess most of us are not football managers. But we all recognise the same. Id like to see 442 because we would be a bigger threat to weak defences. No degree in sport science. Its just blatantly obvious when you lose 7 by new year. And by the way. We all fucking love Rafa. Its just time for a little adjustment maybe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 "Over thinking this league" Keep reading that and it's utter horse s**** like. Just hoy 11 players out and tell them to attack, we'll blow teams away!!! That's not what he said Hans. But we all know You're fond of taking the piss out of people based on your own personal inability to rationalise. Does it make you feel good? cos it doesn't make you look good. Given the options available today, it would have been perfectly reasonable to play 442 with Hayden and Diame in the centre, Ritchie and Atsu on the wings and Gayle with Mitro up front. Nothing to say we would have battered them with that line up, but you can bet your arse they wouldn't have been prepared for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 That's the point though, we look at the league and think "this is easy, just pay 2 up top and blow teams away" but in reality a lot more has to go on behind the scenes for that to happen. Same with just bringing on a sub I'd assume. Rafa isn't like Keegan, pretty much the opposite, he's 100% about tactics. Maybe sometimes that gets in the way and we'd have been better off in hindsight doing something else. But across the whole season we're 2nd and looking to bring in more suitable players this month. We're not doing bad, we're actually doing very well, and it's down to Rafa and his tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 "Over thinking this league" Keep reading that and it's utter horse s**** like. Just hoy 11 players out and tell them to attack, we'll blow teams away!!! That's not what he said Hans. But we all know You're fond of taking the piss out of people based on your own personal inability to rationalise. Does it make you feel good? cos it doesn't make you look good. Given the options available today, it would have been perfectly reasonable to play 442 with Hayden and Diame in the centre, Ritchie and Atsu on the wings and Gayle with Mitro up front. Nothing to say we would have battered them with that line up, but you can bet your arse they wouldn't have been prepared for it. I never said that's what he said did I? I wasn't being fucking literal And are you seriously pulling me up on my inability to rationalise in this thread? If you've read the forum the general gist is that Rafa just needs to make x sub and we win the game, or start with 2 up top and we'd score 4. If you cannot see that then I don't really know what to say like, it's definitely there and has been since the start of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 That's the point though, we look at the league and think "this is easy, just pay 2 up top and blow teams away" but in reality a lot more has to go on behind the scenes for that to happen. Same with just bringing on a sub I'd assume. Rafa isn't like Keegan, pretty much the opposite, he's 100% about tactics. Maybe sometimes that gets in the way and we'd have been better off in hindsight doing something else. But across the whole season we're 2nd and looking to bring in more suitable players this month. He's 100% about one formation and that worries me. For me the better managers have flexability and his only flexability seems to be which full back should push on more. FWIW I've never said play 2 up, it doesn't work that way, most teams have a 4-5-1 when out of possession and various ideas when in possession. A worrying thing for me is how often Gayle isn't the furthest forward.....it so rarely happens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 That's the point though, we look at the league and think "this is easy, just pay 2 up top and blow teams away" but in reality a lot more has to go on behind the scenes for that to happen. Same with just bringing on a sub I'd assume. Rafa isn't like Keegan, pretty much the opposite, he's 100% about tactics. Maybe sometimes that gets in the way and we'd have been better off in hindsight doing something else. But across the whole season we're 2nd and looking to bring in more suitable players this month. Perfectly fair and quite rational. If 6 weeks ago we had been fourth and our recent form had put us into 2nd then I doubt anybody would be concerned. I'm sure we'll get back on track and get promoted and our fears will prove to be unfounded, but until that is secured, form like we have shown recently will be of concern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 "Over thinking this league" Keep reading that and it's utter horse s**** like. Just hoy 11 players out and tell them to attack, we'll blow teams away!!! That's not what he said Hans. But we all know You're fond of taking the piss out of people based on your own personal inability to rationalise. Does it make you feel good? cos it doesn't make you look good. Given the options available today, it would have been perfectly reasonable to play 442 with Hayden and Diame in the centre, Ritchie and Atsu on the wings and Gayle with Mitro up front. Nothing to say we would have battered them with that line up, but you can bet your arse they wouldn't have been prepared for it. I never said that's what he said did I? I wasn't being fucking literal And are you seriously pulling me up on my inability to rationalise in this thread? If you've read the forum the general gist is that Rafa just needs to make x sub and we win the game, or start with 2 up top and we'd score 4. If you cannot see that then I don't really know what to say like, it's definitely there and has been since the start of the season. I think that is what you think. Nobody has said two up top we will score 4. Although our one comback victory we scored 3. And waiting until the death to tweak a side thats losing well....... Waste of time discussing. You admit you prefer 442 but feel happy that Rafa knows what hes doing. The argument for this is your simply satisfied and hope because of his track record he knows what hes doing and theres nothing to be concerned about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 That's the point though, we look at the league and think "this is easy, just pay 2 up top and blow teams away" but in reality a lot more has to go on behind the scenes for that to happen. Same with just bringing on a sub I'd assume. Rafa isn't like Keegan, pretty much the opposite, he's 100% about tactics. Maybe sometimes that gets in the way and we'd have been better off in hindsight doing something else. But across the whole season we're 2nd and looking to bring in more suitable players this month. He's 100% about one formation and that worries me. For me the better managers have flexability and his only flexability seems to be which full back should push on more. FWIW I've never said play 2 up, it doesn't work that way, most teams have a 4-5-1 when out of possession and various ideas when in possession. A worrying thing for me is how often Gayle isn't the furthest forward.....it so rarely happens He is one of the better managers though. He's proven that. I think at the minute he looks inflexible because he's not happy with his bench. There's no chance he wants Perez, Mitrovic and Atsu to be 10 minute cameos every now and then. I just don't think he looks as them and expects them to change anything/do better than the players already on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 That's the point though, we look at the league and think "this is easy, just pay 2 up top and blow teams away" but in reality a lot more has to go on behind the scenes for that to happen. Same with just bringing on a sub I'd assume. Rafa isn't like Keegan, pretty much the opposite, he's 100% about tactics. Maybe sometimes that gets in the way and we'd have been better off in hindsight doing something else. But across the whole season we're 2nd and looking to bring in more suitable players this month. He's 100% about one formation and that worries me. For me the better managers have flexability and his only flexability seems to be which full back should push on more. FWIW I've never said play 2 up, it doesn't work that way, most teams have a 4-5-1 when out of possession and various ideas when in possession. A worrying thing for me is how often Gayle isn't the furthest forward.....it so rarely happens He is one of the better managers though. He's proven that. I think at the minute he looks inflexible because he's not happy with his bench. There's no chance he wants Perez, Mitrovic and Atsu to be 10 minute cameos every now and then. I just don't think he looks as them and expects them to change anything/do better than the players already on the pitch. Do you think he could get better out of the current squad if we wereent so 4-2-3-1 ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 "Over thinking this league" Keep reading that and it's utter horse s**** like. Just hoy 11 players out and tell them to attack, we'll blow teams away!!! That's not what he said Hans. But we all know You're fond of taking the piss out of people based on your own personal inability to rationalise. Does it make you feel good? cos it doesn't make you look good. Given the options available today, it would have been perfectly reasonable to play 442 with Hayden and Diame in the centre, Ritchie and Atsu on the wings and Gayle with Mitro up front. Nothing to say we would have battered them with that line up, but you can bet your arse they wouldn't have been prepared for it. I never said that's what he said did I? I wasn't being fucking literal And are you seriously pulling me up on my inability to rationalise in this thread? If you've read the forum the general gist is that Rafa just needs to make x sub and we win the game, or start with 2 up top and we'd score 4. If you cannot see that then I don't really know what to say like, it's definitely there and has been since the start of the season. I think that is what you think. Nobody has said two up top we will score 4. Although our one comback victory we scored 3. And waiting until the death to tweak a side thats losing well....... Waste of time discussing. You admit you prefer 442 but feel happy that Rafa knows what hes doing. The argument for this is your simply satisfied and hope because of his track record he knows what hes doing and theres nothing to be concerned about. I cannot argue with that bit like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 That's the point though, we look at the league and think "this is easy, just pay 2 up top and blow teams away" but in reality a lot more has to go on behind the scenes for that to happen. Same with just bringing on a sub I'd assume. Rafa isn't like Keegan, pretty much the opposite, he's 100% about tactics. Maybe sometimes that gets in the way and we'd have been better off in hindsight doing something else. But across the whole season we're 2nd and looking to bring in more suitable players this month. He's 100% about one formation and that worries me. For me the better managers have flexability and his only flexability seems to be which full back should push on more. FWIW I've never said play 2 up, it doesn't work that way, most teams have a 4-5-1 when out of possession and various ideas when in possession. A worrying thing for me is how often Gayle isn't the furthest forward.....it so rarely happens He is one of the better managers though. He's proven that. I think at the minute he looks inflexible because he's not happy with his bench. There's no chance he wants Perez, Mitrovic and Atsu to be 10 minute cameos every now and then. I just don't think he looks as them and expects them to change anything/do better than the players already on the pitch. Do you think he could get better out of the current squad if we wereent so 4-2-3-1 ? I think another manager could or would - losing 7 games obviously isn't our ceiling. I don't think he's done the best him or anyone else could in the circumstances but it's just the way it is. I'm not worried though and I'm pretty safe knowing he actually has a plan and is working hard to fix things - and will fix things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 "Over thinking this league" Keep reading that and it's utter horse s**** like. Just hoy 11 players out and tell them to attack, we'll blow teams away!!! That's not what he said Hans. But we all know You're fond of taking the p*ss out of people based on your own personal inability to rationalise. Does it make you feel good? cos it doesn't make you look good. Given the options available today, it would have been perfectly reasonable to play 442 with Hayden and Diame in the centre, Ritchie and Atsu on the wings and Gayle with Mitro up front. Nothing to say we would have battered them with that line up, but you can bet your arse they wouldn't have been prepared for it. I never said that's what he said did I? I wasn't being f***ing literal And are you seriously pulling me up on my inability to rationalise in this thread? If you've read the forum the general gist is that Rafa just needs to make x sub and we win the game, or start with 2 up top and we'd score 4. If you cannot see that then I don't really know what to say like, it's definitely there and has been since the start of the season. Nah, there's one or two like that yeah, but the general gist seems to be that a more flexible approach might have brought better results in the last few weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 You must have loads of people on mute like, because what you're saying sounds like something I've been saying myself and 100% agree with. In hindsight we probably haven't taken the best approach to a couple of games recently. Also in hindsight though we'd have probably played our 4-4-2 with Atsu and Ritchie on the wings and not went on a 9 game win streak. And as bad as we think we've been our recent record is still won 4 lost 2. A more flexible approach might not have been better after all? Who knows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 But anyway I'm going to bed, hopefully I've been talking shite and the debate is actually as pleasant and level headed as you've described. Look forward to reading it tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 You must have loads of people on mute like, because what you're saying sounds like something I've been saying myself and 100% agree with. In hindsight we probably haven't taken the best approach to a couple of games recently. Also in hindsight though we'd have probably played our 4-4-2 with Atsu and Ritchie on the wings and not went on a 9 game win streak. And as bad as we think we've been our recent record is still won 4 lost 2. A more flexible approach might not have been better after all? Who knows. Since the win streak came to an end we lost 5 won 4. If cups are included in the form. So its kind of 50/50 since being relatively dominant. Shelvey, and Gayle not being isolated in matches are huge for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Love having Benitez as our manager, and all that... BUT Blackburn are in the relegation zone and are not very good (have beaten us twice mind) and today they were beyond crap for 75% of the game. Never got into our half for most of it. Yet we still give them the respect of playing one striker. We created many chances for sure and their keeper was on it and we were probably a bit unlucky - but with one small mobile striker most of what we do is going to be down the same channels. Why not funk it up a bit? Frustrated tbh... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 You must have loads of people on mute like, because what you're saying sounds like something I've been saying myself and 100% agree with. In hindsight we probably haven't taken the best approach to a couple of games recently. Also in hindsight though we'd have probably played our 4-4-2 with Atsu and Ritchie on the wings and not went on a 9 game win streak. And as bad as we think we've been our recent record is still won 4 lost 2. A more flexible approach might not have been better after all? Who knows. Well it's actually won 4 lost 4, depending how recent you want to go. won 4 lost 5 including cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Love having Benitez as our manager, and all that... BUT Blackburn are in the relegation zone and are not very good (have beaten us twice mind) and today they were beyond crap for 75% of the game. Never got into our half for most of it. Yet we still give them the respect of playing one striker. We created many chances for sure and their keeper was on it and we were probably a bit unlucky - but with one small mobile striker most of what we do is going to be down the same channels. Why not funk it up a bit? Frustrated tbh... I think frustrated has to be where we can all agree. It is maybe heightened by the rapid progress we seemed to be making, but let's not take it out on each other, eh? We are definitely still a work in progress, and have, arguably the best manager we could wish for. Let's hope we get back on track soon. Not putting too much emphasis on a cup run, but it would be nice to get a result before we return to league action. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Love having Benitez as our manager, and all that... BUT Blackburn are in the relegation zone and are not very good (have beaten us twice mind) and today they were beyond crap for 75% of the game. Never got into our half for most of it. Yet we still give them the respect of playing one striker. We created many chances for sure and their keeper was on it and we were probably a bit unlucky - but with one small mobile striker most of what we do is going to be down the same channels. Why not funk it up a bit? Frustrated tbh... i really don't think this is the issue myself, it's the quality of player rafa is having to put in key positions in his regular formation diame was behind gayle yesterday and looked decent, we created chances...colback and hayden are a very limited central pairing in an attacking sense and colback in every sense of course, but until they got a foothold in the game we were more than comfortable colback then pushed the abort button and had to come off so diame has to go back central as there's no one else, perez takes his spot and does nothing in the short time he's given which is not a surprise as his form is rubbish i've personally been a massive critic of our managers crying about needing new players in the last few years but we really do need them in key places such as CM and someone with pace that can play wide and behind gayle...the distinction being that rafa is about the system and he won't deviate from that so the only way we progress given a number of the players aren't good enough is to upgrade to players that are capable i'd personally drop dummett, move anita to LB if he doesn't trust lazaar, and get yedlin in because we need to inject some pace into the side at home and against the worst sides...yedlin would have torn them to bits yesterday tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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