Mick Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 It was clearly the game plan from the off, but Colback and Dummett either weren't following or not capable of executing this. First 10 mins we tried to press high but it didn't work because only Gayle, Diame, Atsu and Ritchie were doing it and we just fell apart. This type of press only works if the whole team is in on it, we were so disjointed it was a mess and made it easy for Cairney to run the show between the lines. It was rancid, I could have gone home after 15 or 20 minutes because I never thought we were in the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Hoying it forward was a tactic unless you think Rafa didn't want us to do it and the players ignored him, it was an inept display from the manager to virtually every player bar Murphy. The players take as much blame, if the instructions are to go direct there's no excuse for over hitting balls like yesterday. Hoying it forward wasn't the problem, it was the way that we did it that was the problem and I doubt he told them to just hoy it forward anyway. I would expect that he did tell them to get at them and try to hit them early and on the break which we didn't do. We either hit it too long or hit it into space where nobody was or was prepared to run into. At least you've hit the nail on the head with your last sentence. I can't stand direct football like yesterdays. I'm not a Barcelona tika taka lover or anything i just like decent football and there's nothing wrong with a long pass, just not over the top balls all the time. Rafa is better than that, and to be fair so are the players. You're quite right the plan was poorly executed yesterday, but i thought the plan itself was horrendous. And we've played good stuff this season, it just seems since the turn of the year we've had a real downturn in performances (results have held up ok to be fair except for yesterdays obviously). Just imo at the moment we're too direct and idea less in our attacking play at home, and are giving up too much possession in general. We're top of the league so it can't be that bad and Rafa is the man to take us forward, just for me i can see things that concern me in our play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Hoying it forward was a tactic unless you think Rafa didn't want us to do it and the players ignored him, it was an inept display from the manager to virtually every player bar Murphy. The players take as much blame, if the instructions are to go direct there's no excuse for over hitting balls like yesterday. Hoying it forward wasn't the problem, it was the way that we did it that was the problem and I doubt he told them to just hoy it forward anyway. I would expect that he did tell them to get at them and try to hit them early and on the break which we didn't do. We either hit it too long or hit it into space where nobody was or was prepared to run into. At least you've hit the nail on the head with your last sentence. I can't stand direct football like yesterdays. I'm not a Barcelona tika taka lover or anything i just like decent football and there's nothing wrong with a long pass, just not over the top balls all the time. Rafa is better than that, and to be fair so are the players. You're quite right the plan was poorly executed yesterday, but i thought the plan itself was horrendous. And we've played good stuff this season, it just seems since the turn of the year we've had a real downturn in performances (results have held up ok to be fair except for yesterdays obviously). Just imo at the moment we're too direct and idea less in our attacking play at home, and are giving up too much possession in general. We're top of the league so it can't be that bad and Rafa is the man to take us forward, just for me i can see things that concern me in our play. Was awful watching us punt 60 yard high balls up to Gayle for an hour. Such a pointless tactic and dreadful to watch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Hoying it forward was a tactic unless you think Rafa didn't want us to do it and the players ignored him, it was an inept display from the manager to virtually every player bar Murphy. The players take as much blame, if the instructions are to go direct there's no excuse for over hitting balls like yesterday. Hoying it forward wasn't the problem, it was the way that we did it that was the problem and I doubt he told them to just hoy it forward anyway. I would expect that he did tell them to get at them and try to hit them early and on the break which we didn't do. We either hit it too long or hit it into space where nobody was or was prepared to run into. At least you've hit the nail on the head with your last sentence. I can't stand direct football like yesterdays. I'm not a Barcelona tika taka lover or anything i just like decent football and there's nothing wrong with a long pass, just not over the top balls all the time. Rafa is better than that, and to be fair so are the players. You're quite right the plan was poorly executed yesterday, but i thought the plan itself was horrendous. And we've played good stuff this season, it just seems since the turn of the year we've had a real downturn in performances (results have held up ok to be fair except for yesterdays obviously). Just imo at the moment we're too direct and idea less in our attacking play at home, and are giving up too much possession in general. We're top of the league so it can't be that bad and Rafa is the man to take us forward, just for me i can see things that concern me in our play. Was awful watching us punt 60 yard high balls up to Gayle for an hour. Such a pointless tactic and dreadful to watch. Aye it is, it's not something i'll ever enjoy and am totally against. I did the line for my sons team before i reffed today, his team have only one tactic, hoof it long over the top to two speedster big lads. It works half the time but is awful all of the time, and when they play a team that get it down they get murdered. I spend my time moaning and grumbling to myself about it, it makes me grumpy like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Losing genuine options in midfield has really hampered us like. Too many games in succession to rely on the same influential faces, plus the likes of Anita and Gayle needing to get up to speed. Rafa clearly liked to rotate and his options have been stunted somewhat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 imo he's not above criticism but holy shit they come out of the woodwork, like oceans of whinge jizz have been building up while we'd gone unbeaten in 11 in the league, spite edging until the day you can just unload some bizarre doom and gloom forecast on the back of it. okay, so he got it wrong yesterday. On the weight and evidence of league table and position so far that's obviously the exception not the rule. We're not squeaking out streaks of good results like a pardew purple patch ffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Losing genuine options in midfield has really hampered us like. Too many games in succession to rely on the same influential faces, plus the likes of Anita and Gayle needing to get up to speed. Rafa clearly liked to rotate and his options have been stunted somewhat. That's very true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElCid Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Very true. At Huddersfield i thought Rafa got it tactically superb, the perfect way to play a team who have the ball a lot and we hit them on the break brilliantly. And yesterday it was tactically inept, as bad as anything Pardew or Island Heed served up, not sure why it can't be called as you see it without it being bed wetting or over reacting. We all know how great Rafa is, he got it wrong (along with the players) like he has a few times at home. It doesn't mean we are doubting him long term, he is our best hope going forward without a doubt. Our tactics weren't inept yesterday, the performance of most of the players was inept and tactics are not to blame for that. Agree about the performance of the players being even more substandard than usual yesterday but this is not a one off at home either and I disagree that the tactics are not also a major reason for the problems. You should not be dropping that many points at home against the teams we have done. If you're then saying no it's purely down to the standard of the players then that is opening an even bigger can of worms as Rafa picks the team and has brought in some of those players also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir_9 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 For someone having the reputation of being astute in the manner of tactically preparing for the game and the handling of it.. he has really not shown that when quite a few teams have come up here and had their way and/or have frustrated us from start to finish. The annoying thing is it has pretty much been the same exact approach in all of those losses without a plan B to produce in the right amount of time We are the ones making this more difficult than it should be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDonis Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Well, if you don't end up going up then at least you'll be shut of him and your problems will be over. Maybe he'll do you a bigger favour, get you up and then leave, allowing you to get Nigel Pearson or another managerial titan like the ones who've brought you such glory over the past decade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figures 1-0 Football Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Well, if you don't end up going up then at least you'll be shut of him and your problems will be over. Maybe he'll do you a bigger favour, get you up and then leave, allowing you to get Nigel Pearson or another managerial titan like the ones who've brought you such glory over the past decade. This. Please ignore these fucking idiots, TheDonis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altamullan Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Well, if you don't end up going up then at least you'll be shut of him and your problems will be over. Maybe he'll do you a bigger favour, get you up and then leave, allowing you to get Nigel Pearson or another managerial titan like the ones who've brought you such glory over the past decade. Reassuring to see that reds are afflicted by black and white reasoning, too. Albeit, with a bit more humour! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Agree about the performance of the players being even more substandard than usual yesterday but this is not a one off at home either and I disagree that the tactics are not also a major reason for the problems. You should not be dropping that many points at home against the teams we have done. If you're then saying no it's purely down to the standard of the players then that is opening an even bigger can of worms as Rafa picks the team and has brought in some of those players also. I think the previous 3 away games were part of the reason for our poor display yesterday, too many players were far too sluggish in everything they did, they just weren't sharp at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 For someone having the reputation of being astute in the manner of tactically preparing for the game and the handling of it.. he has really not shown that when quite a few teams have come up here and had their way and/or have frustrated us from start to finish. The annoying thing is it has pretty much been the same exact approach in all of those losses without a plan B to produce in the right amount of time We are the ones making this more difficult than it should be. This is far from clear though isn't it? For example, he makes his system less fixed and fits it more to each opponent, then it ends up going wrong more often and we end up on less points than we have now. We are getting promoted, that's job done. It's easily arguable that it's better to get promoted Rafa's way than to mix and match approaches to games and risk the players not knowing their jobs as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Well, if you don't end up going up then at least you'll be shut of him and your problems will be over. Maybe he'll do you a bigger favour, get you up and then leave, allowing you to get Nigel Pearson or another managerial titan like the ones who've brought you such glory over the past decade. Don't even joke about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir_9 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Well, if you don't end up going up then at least you'll be shut of him and your problems will be over. Maybe he'll do you a bigger favour, get you up and then leave, allowing you to get Nigel Pearson or another managerial titan like the ones who've brought you such glory over the past decade. I think you must have mistaken my critique for overall unappreciation, which is not the case. If your comment was aimed at me that is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 We play like an away team all the time, we have no quick tempo at all, just wait for teams to come at us so we can counter back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 For someone having the reputation of being astute in the manner of tactically preparing for the game and the handling of it.. he has really not shown that when quite a few teams have come up here and had their way and/or have frustrated us from start to finish. The annoying thing is it has pretty much been the same exact approach in all of those losses without a plan B to produce in the right amount of time We are the ones making this more difficult than it should be. He doesn't really have time to do much work with the players on anything as we have one game on top of another and have had that earlier in the season. I would expect that the training we're doing at the minute is very light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 His refusal to change things early cost us the game yesterday like. Still love the man obvs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 We play like an away team all the time, we have no quick tempo at all, just wait for teams to come at us so we can counter back Against Ipswich every one of our players touched the ball in our build up to our first goal, the first Ipswich player to touch it was the keeper when he picked the ball out of the net. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir_9 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Well, if you don't end up going up then at least you'll be shut of him and your problems will be over. Maybe he'll do you a bigger favour, get you up and then leave, allowing you to get Nigel Pearson or another managerial titan like the ones who've brought you such glory over the past decade. This. Please ignore these f***ing idiots, TheDonis. People can't critique Rafa without still thinking we're absolutely lucky to have him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElCid Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Agree about the performance of the players being even more substandard than usual yesterday but this is not a one off at home either and I disagree that the tactics are not also a major reason for the problems. You should not be dropping that many points at home against the teams we have done. If you're then saying no it's purely down to the standard of the players then that is opening an even bigger can of worms as Rafa picks the team and has brought in some of those players also. I think the previous 3 away games were part of the reason for our poor display yesterday, too many players were far too sluggish in everything they did, they just weren't sharp at all. Thing is Mick I would agree but it's not a one off and that's the problem. The away tactics are superb and exactly what is required but they're not working at home and haven't been in a fair portion of games either. The one thing I totally agree is that he was shafted in January. The operation of a number ten at home is not working but is still being persisted with. We look totally clueless at home and there has to be a reason for that as the same players are getting results away even with the likes of Colback and gouffran amongst others playing. You need to be on the front foot at home and not playing the same counter attacking game. It works away as teams are more inclined to be attacking leaving space for the ball over the top to play in the likes of Gayle but it then becomes an issue at home as teams are sitting deeper and that option is more limited and actually becomes a hindrance as the ball just comes straight back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElCid Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Well, if you don't end up going up then at least you'll be shut of him and your problems will be over. Maybe he'll do you a bigger favour, get you up and then leave, allowing you to get Nigel Pearson or another managerial titan like the ones who've brought you such glory over the past decade. This. Please ignore these f***ing idiots, TheDonis. Instead of calling people why don't you actually partake in some of the decent conversation that is going on about the genuine concerns. I'm quite happy to match my knowledge on football against yours any time you want. I don't mind different opinions but to call people idiots because they don't agree with you is childish at best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stal Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Could it be lack of personnel or even lack of trust in personnel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I think Anita could be in midfield in our next game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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