Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Kanji]

The Schar, Lejeune, Lascelles trio at CB with Dubravka in net was class. Imagine if we had been able to get some proper wing backs - Longstaff never got hurt and he was able to play next Merino? Front 3 of Almiron, Rondon and Ayoze. Had the makings of a decent side - that. 

[duo]

1 minute ago, Menace said:

People seem to forget Bruce was playing Ciaran Clark ahead of Schar

[Stifler]

11 minutes ago, magvicar said:

He didn't set the bed alight but a 13th and 12th position in his first two seasons wasn't terrible.

However he did seem to be losing the plot and the pressure was getting to him because fans were on his back.

He was nothing special as a manager but then again few were.

 

I was as glad to see him go as many were. He lost the plot and seemed to lose his ability to motivate the team or himself by the look of things at the time.

 

 

 

In his 1st season we were well in a relegation battle, no one could say that we weren’t going for certain. The league then stopped play and the remainder was played over 2-3 months behind closed doors. A lot of teams came back half arsed, heck a Liverpool team who were running away with the title came back slowly.

It worked well for us, but you have to remember that before that the atmosphere was turning. 10,000 people packed their season tickets in and day trippers were not taking them up, hence why Ashley had only just given away 10,000 half season tickets.

 

Aside from 1 match, the following season was behind closed doors as well. Again that benefited Bruce as he never had that poisonous atmosphere in home matches, and capitalised on away fixtures where there was no home crowd for him to work against either.

 

It’s no coincidence that as soon as the crowds came back he was taking us down. The crowd knew it, and so did the players. How the fuck we never got relegated last season is down too both a lot of luck, and some great management from Howe.

 

There was absolutely fuck all from Bruce to suggest that he was any good for us, he got lucky that circumstances meant he got away with it here. In fact WBA found that out when he took them from fighting for promotion, to on the verge of going to League One, possibly never to return.

[magvicar]

21 minutes ago, UncleBingo said:

Which players did he get more out of exactly?

 

 

Most I reckon.

I think the players were a bit dejected under Rafa. Rafa seemed cold. Bruce at least came in with some zest even amid a mixed reception.

I think Shelvey brightened up and I'll never forgive Rafa for destroying Mitrovic for us.

 

But that's juyst my take as unpopular as it seems.

[Conjo]

1 minute ago, magvicar said:

Most I reckon.

I think the players were a bit dejected under Rafa. Rafa seemed cold. Bruce at least came in with some zest even amid a mixed reception.

I think Shelvey brightened up and I'll never forgive Rafa for destroying Mitrovic for us.

 

But that's juyst my take as unpopular as it seems.

 

He came in and gave the players more time off as I remember it, which Shelvey was a big fan of.

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, magvicar said:

Most I reckon.

I think the players were a bit dejected under Rafa. Rafa seemed cold. Bruce at least came in with some zest even amid a mixed reception.

I think Shelvey brightened up and I'll never forgive Rafa for destroying Mitrovic for us.

 

But that's juyst my take as unpopular as it seems.

Mitrovic destroyed himself by acting like a knacker and generally speaking not being able to hit a cow's arse with a banjo.  He wasn't good enough at the time.

 

He's popped a canny few in the last couple of years for Fulham - but at Fulham he remains; I don't see many teams knocking their door down to get him.  He's an elite level second division footballer, or a decent PL striker these days - but he's hardly the dog's bollocks.

[LiquidAK]

23 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

You only have to compare the season points totals to see that Bruce did just as good a job as Rata, if not better. 

Feel like this is massively oversimplifying things. With Rafa we were on an upward trajectory and the performances matched that. With Bruce he was being pulled out of the fire by Willock going on a mental scoring run and Maxi doing some magic (in Pardew-speak). Just looking at the points doesn’t tell the whole story of how utterly clueless we looked most of the time under Bruce. 

[UncleBingo]

4 minutes ago, magvicar said:

Most I reckon.

I think the players were a bit dejected under Rafa. Rafa seemed cold. Bruce at least came in with some zest even amid a mixed reception.

I think Shelvey brightened up and I'll never forgive Rafa for destroying Mitrovic for us.

 

But that's juyst my take as unpopular as it seems.

 

Most of the players. Fucking hell ????

[Abacus]

I'm not sure if Rafa destroyed Mitro as much as never quite trusted him.

 

You only have to look at how he has just imploded after he had his best PL season.

 

I think there was an element of the players treating the place like a holiday camp after Rafa left. In fact, a literal holiday camp in Portugal - which is fine for a few weeks but not what any professional athlete should be about.

 

And as for Bruce - he virtually destroyed Joelinton's career, a player who now looks almost irreplaceable.

[Abacus]

1 minute ago, LiquidAK said:

Feel like this is massively oversimplifying things. With Rafa we were on an upward trajectory and the performances matched that. With Bruce he was being pulled out of the fire by Willock going on a mental scoring run and Maxi doing some magic (in Pardew-speak). Just looking at the points doesn’t tell the whole story of how utterly clueless we looked most of the time under Bruce. 

And I'm fairly sure he's winding you up

[Yorkie]

Just now, LiquidAK said:

27 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

You only have to compare the season points totals to see that Bruce did just as good a job as Rata, if not better. 

Feel like this is massively oversimplifying things. With Rafa we were on an upward trajectory and the performances matched that. With Bruce he was being pulled out of the fire by Willock going on a mental scoring run and Maxi doing some magic (in Pardew-speak). Just looking at the points doesn’t tell the whole story of how utterly clueless we looked most of the time under Bruce.

 

sake

[TheBrownBottle]

Benitez talked about 'Newcastle United is not a stepping stone'.  With Bruce, it was back to 'unrealistic expectations' and 'can't compete' shite.  Ashley paid millions for a man to be his professional apologist - Benitez actually had enough self-worth and stock in the game not to have to go down that path.  Benitez was a La Liga and European Cup winning manager reminding us of what we are and can be.  Steve Bruce was a Second and Third Division playoffs winner with a truly weird accent telling us that we were deluded.   He can get to fuck, frankly.

[Menace]

The media calling us deluded Geordies cause we saw what they couldn't from rent a quote, what a time to be alive 

[The College Dropout]

Aye Bruce did do a decent job at first. Aye a lot of it is down to using Rafa's template but he still did a decent job.

[kingxlnc]

Rafa managed to turn Ayoze Perez into a £30m player. 

Longstaff we wanted £50m for, for his form under Rafa

Almiron prior to this season's form, last showed this type of form under Rafa, the first season he joined before he got injured (minus the goals)

Rondon was a great fit here

Lascelles thrived as captain

Dubravka was an unknown, and a steal

Schar and Leujene were relatively unknown and both steals

He managed with very very paltry resources to make a competitive team that finished 10th!

 

It was ridiculous what he achieved - that NUFC which came up is probably the worst, man-for-man in the PL era, compared to the other teams. 

 

It was the definition of solid and unspectacular. 

 

Ashley didn't want to compete - who else can make miracles happen with a 5m reserve striker from Stoke as your first choice? 

 

I can't believe the revisionism in this thread. 

 

Rafa achieved amazing things against the odds and had to make do with whatever he was given. 

To be honest he is similar to Howe in terms of how well drilled his sides are, they know their roles and he improves players no end. 

 

And when he's backed, he is very attacking, his Real Madrid side, his Liverpool sides all had record wins under him. 

 

When he's the underdog, he has to adapt - e.g. Valencia, smaller budget but his pragmatic style won through. Ditto Liverpool 2005, not the best team - but in 2008 when they had Alonso and Torres they finished second and scored tons of goals. Ditto us, not a great team but if he actually got money to spend (e.g Almiron) the signs were there it was all going in the right direction and would have had us competing for a top half finish. 

[madras]

I wonder how Rafas time here, purely in football terms, would be viewed if he'd been a bit chummy with Ashley ?

[LiquidAK]

11 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

sake

My bad

[TRon]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Aye Bruce did do a decent job at first. Aye a lot of it is down to using Rafa's template but he still did a decent job.

 

No he didn't. It was all based on Rafa's structure, the only thing he managed to do was gradually destroy it, which most of us predicted would happen. He didn't do a decent job, he was just there.

 

 

[andycap]

2 hours ago, magvicar said:

I'm not defending Bruce other than to say he came in and did a decent job at first. Benitez did a decent job at first. Pardew did a decent job at first.

Hughton did a decent job at first.

I could go on and on about managers that come in and do a decent job at first.

If that's defending them then Rafa is also in that.

 

 

 

Benitez finished strongly we looked like we'd push on the next season. So don't understand the started of well then lost the plot narrative. 

[Chris_R]

 

Media: "Bruce averaged about the same as Benitez", which whilst it might mathematically be provable, it's absolutely baffling that people swallow this. But they do, time and again.

 

Benitez took a shit team and made them good over time. Bruce took a good team and made them shit over time. These 2 achievements are not the same.

 

Then add in their relative net spends. Benitez achieved what he did with a negative spend, Bruce spent a shitload to actually go backwards. Then the flag on top of the turd on top of the cake is how Bruce treated the fans, and belittled any hope we might think we should have, playing down expectations to match his own incompetence.

 

I know football is about opinions, but it's incomprehensible that anyone on here is trying to legitimately equate the 2 managers in any meaningful way.

[magvicar]

1 hour ago, Conjo said:

 

He came in and gave the players more time off as I remember it, which Shelvey was a big fan of.

He wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination.

As I said earlier I was glad to see him go but I say it how I saw it and see it and his time at Newcastle was a mad mixture which included some good, just as Rafa's was, yet I enjoyed the football under Bruce much better, for a while than I did under Rafa, premier league wise.

[KaKa]

Enjoyed the football under Bruce much better. My God man, try another sport

[The College Dropout]

10 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

No he didn't. It was all based on Rafa's structure, the only thing he managed to do was gradually destroy it, which most of us predicted would happen. He didn't do a decent job, he was just there.

 

 

That doesn't matter. If I go into a job and keep the things that worked well previously and achieve comparable results that were seen as a success - I would have done a decent job.

 

You're letting your personal bias cloud your judgement. 

 

Obviously Rafa did a better job. He built that foundation and he managed the fans much better.

[magvicar]

1 hour ago, Conjo said:

 

I maybe wrong here, and I refuse to read myself up on it as I don't want to refresh my memory of the Bruce "era", but I seem to remember his start being riddled with excuses about players not being able to play his system because they were too drilled in the way Rafa had them play, so he ended up setting the team up very much like Rafa did, without knowing the system or instructions which resulted in the "boring" football and added bonus of not even being defensively solid. Then a few "judge me after x amount of time".

 

Which first period exactly was the good one?

Good?

I didn't say that. 

I said better.

[MrRaspberryJam]

2 minutes ago, magvicar said:

Good?

I didn't say that. 

I said better.

 

what was better about scoring less, conceding more and getting battered more?