Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Shadow Puppets]

I mean, as usual, I think the truth is somewhere in-between.

 

As we all know, Ashley has dealt Rafa a s*** hand (yet again), but it would be stupid to suggest that Rafa isn't partly to blame for our league position. Of course he is. You all know that he has made quite a few mistakes this season with peculiar starting lineups, substitutions too late, negative tactics after going ahead, and the signings that he has been able to make have largely been poor.

 

BUT, he is a class above anyone else we could hope to attract, has genuine quality when he has the right tools, is a revelation in his work off the pitch, and has brought pride back to our club. And I would hate to see us let him go without giving him a fair hand to play with.

 

I wouldn't swap him for anything, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say he's done an average job on the football side of things so far (last season included - our final league position certainly did mask how largely crap we were for large chunks of the season).

No.

No what?

[Sho Time]

I mean, as usual, I think the truth is somewhere in-between.

 

As we all know, Ashley has dealt Rafa a s*** hand (yet again), but it would be stupid to suggest that Rafa isn't partly to blame for our league position. Of course he is. You all know that he has made quite a few mistakes this season with peculiar starting lineups, substitutions too late, negative tactics after going ahead, and the signings that he has been able to make have largely been poor.

 

BUT, he is a class above anyone else we could hope to attract, has genuine quality when he has the right tools, is a revelation in his work off the pitch, and has brought pride back to our club. And I would hate to see us let him go without giving him a fair hand to play with.

 

I wouldn't swap him for anything, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say he's done an average job on the football side of things so far (last season included - our final league position certainly did mask how largely crap we were for large chunks of the season).

No.

 

Fuck off, that's a perfectly reasonable post. The blame is 95% Ashley but you still can't argue that Rafa has made some bewildering substitutions, or made them too late, and put out a few questionable line-ups.

[hakka]

For those that keep pointing out Rafa has made mistakes this season, surely you must realise every manager makes mistakes? none of them get it right all the time. Our biggest issue is down to a chronic under funding of quality players. Rafa has to play it perfectly every game as we don't have a squad with numerous match winners at this level to deliver the goods.

 

Just consider one thing - where would this side be if it was managed by Carver, McClaren, Kinnear or Pardew? it would be rock fucking bottom - that's where.

[HaydnNUFC]

I mean, as usual, I think the truth is somewhere in-between.

 

As we all know, Ashley has dealt Rafa a s*** hand (yet again), but it would be stupid to suggest that Rafa isn't partly to blame for our league position. Of course he is. You all know that he has made quite a few mistakes this season with peculiar starting lineups, substitutions too late, negative tactics after going ahead, and the signings that he has been able to make have largely been poor.

 

BUT, he is a class above anyone else we could hope to attract, has genuine quality when he has the right tools, is a revelation in his work off the pitch, and has brought pride back to our club. And I would hate to see us let him go without giving him a fair hand to play with.

 

I wouldn't swap him for anything, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say he's done an average job on the football side of things so far (last season included - our final league position certainly did mask how largely crap we were for large chunks of the season).

No.

No what?

I just disagree. It's probably 99.9% Ashley in reply to Sho'Time.

 

Last season's January window was awful. Rafa identified we needed bodies in to solidify promotion in another 23 or so games and actually sign some PL players in advance for this season. And that was blocked by Ashley. The signings from the most recent summer being poor because he was given what is almost f*** all in this market you can't really put down to him.

 

This talk of bewildering subsitutions, I can't think of any off of the top of my head. Perez for Joselu in Bournemouth (h) maybe? That's it. Regarding lineups, whenever people have lambasted it (West Ham away, Stoke away) we've usually won (or at least come away with a good result).

 

The squad we have is the worst squad in the league imo. The fact that we are where we are is down to our approaches tactically and how well drilled we are. That's down to the manager.

[STM]

I find it remarkable that any of our fans spend a second even thinking about criticising Rafa. It's not to say hes perfect, just what purpose does it serve?

 

There's literally a handful of people in world football at his standard or above. Complain about somethig else FFS, like our cunt of an owner.

 

I can only assume it's a severe case of Supafanism. "Here guys, I love Newcastle so much that I can point out Rafa's mistakes."

[hakka]

I find it remarkable that any of our fans spend a second even thinking about criticising Rafa. It's not to say hes perfect, just what purpose does it serve?

 

There's literally a handful of people in world football at his standard or above. Complain about somethig else FFS, like our c*** of an owner.

 

I can only assume it's a severe case of Supafanism. "Here guys, I love Newcastle so much that I can point out Rafa's mistakes."

 

where do these people think this squad and Rafa should be? battling for a top 6 spot?

[Away Day Gadgie]

They must want to see more “football on the front foot” and “fret” i’d imagine. 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

As we all know, Ashley has dealt Rafa a shit hand (yet again), but it would be stupid to suggest that Rafa isn't partly to blame for our league position. Of course he is. You all know that he has made quite a few mistakes this season with peculiar starting lineups, substitutions too late, negative tactics after going ahead, and the signings that he has been able to make have largely been poor.

 

trouble with this point is that it completely ignores the fact that all of the points we do have are entirely down to him as well because he doesn't have any 'game changers' like other clubs...therefore it's a stupid fucking point because to do any better with the group of players he has he'd literally be a magician, not the pretend type either, the real type like david copperfield

 

you're right, the truth is somewhere in between extremes and in this case it's that rafa is performing as many miracles as he is fuckups and that in itself is pretty amazing considering what he's working with vs. those around him

[Sho Time]

I find it remarkable that any of our fans spend a second even thinking about criticising Rafa. It's not to say hes perfect, just what purpose does it serve?

 

There's literally a handful of people in world football at his standard or above. Complain about somethig else FFS, like our c*** of an owner.

 

I can only assume it's a severe case of Supafanism. "Here guys, I love Newcastle so much that I can point out Rafa's mistakes."

 

I agree but only to a certain extent - for fans that are losing/have lost faith with Rafa or never had it in the first place, that's pure madness. Pointing out mistakes he's made isn't like "arr hea that's a pure joke that like, Stevie Mc coulda done a betta job lyk", it's a lot of people saying "all the blame lies with the owner, he is the issue and the reason the squad is so limited, however I didn't like this what Rafa done and think him doing something different could have changed the outcome", that's simply just people analysing a game of football over 90 minutes and discussing it, which is the f***ing point of football and a football forum especially!

 

Outrightly saying "you can't/shouldn't criticise Rafa full stop" is a bit daft, as he's definitely not perfect, but he's definitely 20x better than anyone else we could hope to attract. It doesn't "serve a purpose" but neither does whinging about players, neither do a lot of things. It's just discussion ffs. May as well shut down the forum if you can't even discuss a game unless to say "Ashley's a c***, players aren't good enough, but Rafa is God". (he is, but y'kna what I'm getting at).

[mrmojorisin75]

I mean, as usual, I think the truth is somewhere in-between.

 

As we all know, Ashley has dealt Rafa a s*** hand (yet again), but it would be stupid to suggest that Rafa isn't partly to blame for our league position. Of course he is. You all know that he has made quite a few mistakes this season with peculiar starting lineups, substitutions too late, negative tactics after going ahead, and the signings that he has been able to make have largely been poor.

 

BUT, he is a class above anyone else we could hope to attract, has genuine quality when he has the right tools, is a revelation in his work off the pitch, and has brought pride back to our club. And I would hate to see us let him go without giving him a fair hand to play with.

 

I wouldn't swap him for anything, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say he's done an average job on the football side of things so far (last season included - our final league position certainly did mask how largely crap we were for large chunks of the season).

No.

 

Fuck off, that's a perfectly reasonable post. The blame is 95% Ashley but you still can't argue that Rafa has made some bewildering substitutions, or made them too late, and put out a few questionable line-ups.

 

see my other post, this is a pointless argument because he's made just as many positive interventions/selections/tactics that are keeping us in with a shout of staying up and if he'd been allowed 1 or 2 of his choices we'd probably be fine now

[Shadow Puppets]

I find it remarkable that any of our fans spend a second even thinking about criticising Rafa. It's not to say hes perfect, just what purpose does it serve?

 

There's literally a handful of people in world football at his standard or above. Complain about somethig else FFS, like our c*** of an owner.

 

I can only assume it's a severe case of Supafanism. "Here guys, I love Newcastle so much that I can point out Rafa's mistakes."

 

I agree but only to a certain extent - for fans that are losing/have lost faith with Rafa or never had it in the first place, that's pure madness. Pointing out mistakes he's made isn't like "arr hea that's a pure joke that like, Stevie Mc coulda done a betta job lyk", it's a lot of people saying "all the blame lies with the owner, he is the issue and the reason the squad is so limited, however I didn't like this what Rafa done and think him doing something different could have changed the outcome", that's simply just people analysing a game of football over 90 minutes and discussing it, which is the f***ing point of football and a football forum especially!

 

Outrightly saying "you can't/shouldn't criticise Rafa full stop" is a bit daft, as he's definitely not perfect, but he's definitely 20x better than anyone else we could hope to attract. It doesn't "serve a purpose" but neither does whinging about players, neither do a lot of things. It's just discussion ffs. May as well shut down the forum if you can't even discuss a game unless to say "Ashley's a c***, players aren't good enough, but Rafa is God". (he is, but y'kna what I'm getting at).

 

Exactly.

[Mattoon]

I mean, as usual, I think the truth is somewhere in-between.

 

As we all know, Ashley has dealt Rafa a s*** hand (yet again), but it would be stupid to suggest that Rafa isn't partly to blame for our league position. Of course he is. You all know that he has made quite a few mistakes this season with peculiar starting lineups, substitutions too late, negative tactics after going ahead, and the signings that he has been able to make have largely been poor.

 

BUT, he is a class above anyone else we could hope to attract, has genuine quality when he has the right tools, is a revelation in his work off the pitch, and has brought pride back to our club. And I would hate to see us let him go without giving him a fair hand to play with.

 

I wouldn't swap him for anything, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say he's done an average job on the football side of things so far (last season included - our final league position certainly did mask how largely crap we were for large chunks of the season).

No.

 

Fuck off, that's a perfectly reasonable post. The blame is 95% Ashley but you still can't argue that Rafa has made some bewildering substitutions, or made them too late, and put out a few questionable line-ups.

 

see my other post, this is a pointless argument because he's made just as many positive interventions/selections/tactics that are keeping us in with a shout of staying up and if he'd been allowed 1 or 2 of his choices we'd probably be fine now

Exactly, people were scratching their heads and screaming at the TV with his subs on Sunday, I for one didn't understand them but it probably saved us a point as it eased off the pressure for the final 10-15 minutes. He might not always get it right but he's a damn genius that knows a damn sight more than us.

[STM]

I dont think we are talking about Rafa's substitutions and player selections here are we? Because I can totally understand discussing player x vs player y etc.

 

It's Rafa's "negative tactics", vibe or undercurrent of "he has to take some responsibility."

 

No he doesn't have to take any responsibility, not in my eyes anyway because he's been entirely undermined by his superiors and is expected to perform miracles from nothing.

 

Also, the conservative tactics he has adopted are the reason we aren't 20th. (Not directed at anyone specific).

[Shadow Puppets]

I dont think we are talking about Rafa's substitutions and player selections here are we? Because I can totally understand discussing player x vs player y etc.

 

It's Rafa's "negative tactics", vibe or undercurrent of "he has to take some responsibility."

 

<b>No he doesn't have to take any responsibility, not in my eyes anyway because he's been entirely undermined by his superiors and is expected to perform miracles from nothing.</b>

 

Also, the conservative tactics he has adopted are the reason we aren't 20th. (Not directed at anyone specific).

 

Such a stupid thing to say man... in what job should someone ever be completely bulletproof? He chose to come here. He chose to stay here. He knows the job description. Therefore he should be culpable to some degree for mistakes and poor performances.

 

Again, I'm not advocating getting rid of him AT ALL... I just think he's been to blame on more than one occasion this season. Clearly, 99% of the blame is actually at Ashley's door, but getting all defensive when people criticise him is ridiculously cringeworthy.

[Tiotes Witch Doctor]

For reference sake the season we went down under McClaren we had 24 points at this time in the season, only 1 less than our current amount, I think its debatable whether the team was much better then, you would think for being not far off a world class manager he might be outperforming McClaren by more than a point.

 

At the end of the day it comes down to points on the board, and on that evidence so far he is barely outperforming Schteve.

[HaydnNUFC]

We had 24 points at this point last year but didn't increase that total until the 20th March.

 

McClaren also had a far better side. Dread to think where McClaren would have this side.

[Dave]

For reference sake the season we went down under McClaren we had 24 points at this time in the season, only 1 less than our current amount, I think its debatable whether the team was much better then, you would think for being not far off a world class manager he might be outperforming McClaren by more than a point.

 

At the end of the day it comes down to points on the board, and on that evidence so far he is barely outperforming Schteve.

 

That the same McClaren who had £75m to spend and brought in five £12m+ players?

[TRon]

I find it remarkable that any of our fans spend a second even thinking about criticising Rafa. It's not to say hes perfect, just what purpose does it serve?

 

There's literally a handful of people in world football at his standard or above. Complain about somethig else FFS, like our c*** of an owner.

 

I can only assume it's a severe case of Supafanism. "Here guys, I love Newcastle so much that I can point out Rafa's mistakes."

 

I agree but only to a certain extent - for fans that are losing/have lost faith with Rafa or never had it in the first place, that's pure madness. Pointing out mistakes he's made isn't like "arr hea that's a pure joke that like, Stevie Mc coulda done a betta job lyk", it's a lot of people saying "all the blame lies with the owner, he is the issue and the reason the squad is so limited, however I didn't like this what Rafa done and think him doing something different could have changed the outcome", that's simply just people analysing a game of football over 90 minutes and discussing it, which is the f***ing point of football and a football forum especially!

 

Outrightly saying "you can't/shouldn't criticise Rafa full stop" is a bit daft, as he's definitely not perfect, but he's definitely 20x better than anyone else we could hope to attract. It doesn't "serve a purpose" but neither does whinging about players, neither do a lot of things. It's just discussion ffs. May as well shut down the forum if you can't even discuss a game unless to say "Ashley's a c***, players aren't good enough, but Rafa is God". (he is, but y'kna what I'm getting at).

 

It usually is mind, and Tiote's Witch doctor's post is pretty much exactly that.

[hakka]

For reference sake the season we went down under McClaren we had 24 points at this time in the season, only 1 less than our current amount, I think its debatable whether the team was much better then, you would think for being not far off a world class manager he might be outperforming McClaren by more than a point.

 

At the end of the day it comes down to points on the board, and on that evidence so far he is barely outperforming Schteve.

 

The team we had under McClaren was easily better than this one. What a silly thing to say it's debatable.

 

What is it people are getting at with Rafa? I think we are doing good considering the shit investment and yet have a reasonable chance of staying up. What more are you expecting with this squad and Rafa? Top half finish? Top 6? I don't get what he's fucked up so much for criticism other than mistakes all mangers will make from time to time, unless your saying he should be doing better. If so where should we be in the table now and end of season if Rafa wasn't making these "mistakes"?

[Gallowgate Toon]

It's the absolute surety that '"being more attacking" = more points' that I don't get. We've seen that when we've opened up, it hasn't ended well, and our strikers have had lots of chances they've spurned. The stats show we actually create a decent amount.

 

It's pure cliche and a bit of a baffling focus point, considering the issues around the club.

[Tiotes Witch Doctor]

My dig is more at the people who are saying he is working miracles, when in fact whatever way you swing it we are in serious danger of relegation, throwing away wins due to immediately retreating when going ahead, baffling and negative subs and tactics and IMO wasting most of admittedly mediocre budget he was given on players who mostly sit on the bench every week.

 

We are just about keeping our heads above water and will more than likely be in the bottom 3 after the visit of Man Utd, I'm not for one second saying McClaren is a better manager than Benitez, I'm just saying so far his performance at corresponding points in the season are barely any different, and the proof is in the points hauls of both.

 

I think he is the best we can get especially under this ownership, but he should not be above criticism, there was somebody before literally saying he should take no blame for anything ffs even if we go down Its madness.

[HaydnNUFC]

We "opened up" and went 4-4-2 in November and December when we literally had our run which has dragged us into the mess. I think we've only won playing 4-4-2 away at West Ham.

[Gallowgate Toon]

My dig is more at the people who are saying he is working miracles, when in fact whatever way you swing it we are in serious danger of relegation, throwing away wins due to immediately retreating when going ahead, baffling and negative subs and tactics and IMO wasting most of admittedly mediocre budget he was given on players who mostly sit on the bench every week.

 

We are just about keeping our heads above water and will more than likely be in the bottom 3 after the visit of Man Utd, I'm not for one second saying McClaren is a better manager than Benitez, I'm just saying so far his performance at corresponding points in the season are barely any different, and the proof is in the points hauls of both.

 

I think he is the best we can get especially under this ownership, but he should not be above criticism, there was somebody before literally saying he should take no blame for anything ffs even if we go down Its madness.

 

This just isn't true, like. I can think of quite a few occasions we've been ahead in games and missed chances to extend the lead.

[hakka]

My dig is more at the people who are saying he is working miracles, when in fact whatever way you swing it we are in serious danger of relegation, throwing away wins due to immediately retreating when going ahead, baffling and negative subs and tactics and IMO wasting most of admittedly mediocre budget he was given on players who mostly sit on the bench every week.

 

We are just about keeping our heads above water and will more than likely be in the bottom 3 after the visit of Man Utd, I'm not for one second saying McClaren is a better manager than Benitez, I'm just saying so far his performance at corresponding points in the season are barely any different, and the proof is in the points hauls of both.

 

I think he is the best we can get especially under this ownership, but he should not be above criticism, there was somebody before literally saying he should take no blame for anything ffs even if we go down Its madness.

 

So, where should this team be now and come end of season with the players it has?

[HaydnNUFC]

My dig is more at the people who are saying he is working miracles, when in fact whatever way you swing it we are in serious danger of relegation,

We expected to be after the summer window. If you didn't then you're a moron.

 

throwing away wins due to immediately retreating when going ahead,

When have we done that? We should've scored 2 against Burnley. We had a couple opportunities at 0-1 in the first half at Palace.

 

baffling and negative subs

Can't remember any of those off of the top of my head other than Perez on for Joselu in the Bournemouth home game. Completely disrupted our flow but other than that I can't think of any.

 

and tactics

Can't really do anything else when he's got fuck all to work with. These "negative tactics" have got us above the bottom 3 and with a superior GD to many of our relegation rivals.

 

and IMO wasting most of admittedly mediocre budget he was given on players who mostly sit on the bench every week.

This can only really be applied to Murphy. I want to see him start too, like. But howay, mediocre budget gets you mediocre players. That's what we have.

 

We are just about keeping our heads above water and will more than likely be in the bottom 3 after the visit of Man Utd, I'm not for one second saying McClaren is a better manager than Benitez, I'm just saying so far his performance at corresponding points in the season are barely any different, and the proof is in the points hauls of both.

This point is moot, McClaren had a far better side. And I'm confident we'll pick up a few more points between now and the end of March. McClaren stayed on 24 points from the WBA home win in early February to the Bournemouth defeat in early March.

 

I think he is the best we can get especially under this ownership, but he should not be above criticism, there was somebody before literally saying he should take no blame for anything ffs even if we go down Its madness.

He should not be above criticism when he gets what he needs. The people above him have been taking the piss for 3 transfer windows straight. And yes, he should take some blame if we end up going down (I don't think we will, mind) but 99% of it will be down to Ashley.