biggs Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 They are both very experienced negotiators. Backed by a team of others used to getting the best possible deal; by hook or by crook. He still wants to sell, she/they still want to buy. They can’t agree on a price. No change basically. In effect Ashley’s ‘message’, is just a public way of demonstrating he isn’t willing to accept what they’ve offered. Again, not new information. Only question for me, after Ashley’s ‘move’, is how much does she/they want this? Despite all the extensive number crunching, they will have done, it is that which will determine how much flex there is what they are willing to pay. nail on head Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 We've learned through Ashley's reluctance himself that in football you have to pay over the odds sometimes. How many times over the last 4-5 years have we missed out on a player because we don't want to 'overpay' even though you sometimes have to? Staveley and co might have to go the extra £20-30m or whatever to get what they want if they really want it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 They are both very experienced negotiators. Backed by a team of others used to getting the best possible deal; by hook or by crook. He still wants to sell, she/they still want to buy. They can’t agree on a price. No change basically. In effect Ashley’s ‘message’, is just a public way of demonstrating he isn’t willing to accept what they’ve offered. Again, not new information. Only question for me, after Ashley’s ‘move’, is how much does she/they want this? Despite all the extensive number crunching, they will have done, it is that which will determine how much flex there is what they are willing to pay. Or the alternate is.....Ashley never really wanted to sell, used it as a cover to not spend in the transfer windows. Then oh dear someone showed an interest, and now he's done his best to make them say sod that after lying about them. Knowing there are no other bids, and look at the timing, yet again before an away game and ages before the next home game. Keep us up on the cheap for the next lot of TV money. I mean it's not like we haven't seen all this shit before is it ? The only thing we can hope is, that he really does want to sell but would you believe a word that man says, about anything ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealios Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 The whole lack of due diligence thing didn't mean he didn't know about the loan, it was more that he didn't realise that it became immediately repayable following a change of control. He knew the loan was there, and the price of £135m reflected that loan. If the club didn't owe £100m to the banks, the club would have been worth a lot more. Being very simplistic, you could say that a debt free NUFC in 2007 was worth £235m, but the fact that there was £100m owed to banks meant Ashley was only going to pay £135m. Assuming NUFC in 2018 is being sold free of Ashley's debt, then it would appear that the £250m would be a tad on the low side if you look at it as how much 2007 NUFC should have increased in value to 2018 NUFC, given the huge increase in TV money. Even after the turmoil of the last 10 years, it isn't unreasonable to suggest that a £235m 2007 NUFC has increased to at least a £300m 2018 NUFC. Perhaps more, given that the international TV money isn't going to disappear any time soon. If you look at the increase in value of other Premier League clubs, then that percentage increase isn't a bad example. It wasn’t a £100m loan though when he purchased it though. Off top of my head; He paid £129m for the Club The 15 year mortgage (secured each season until 2015 via 40K season ticket sales IIRC) on level 7 became immediately due on any sale so he had to pay that and he paid up all money owed on players we had purchased (I think) – I think in total it was about an extra £74m to his £129m purchase. He then had to put loans in to cover relegation in 2009 and 2016 (both the fat w*****’s fault and which he should write-off if he had any decency about him – look at how much Ellis Short has written-off down the road) to the tune of about £65m. Yeah, I was just using £100m as an example. I think you're right on the £74m loan, which I think was the Northern Rock part. There were other facilities as well, a huge overdraft facility with Barclays, which they wanted paying down as well - although that part was still in place when the club was up for sale in 2009. On the 2009 sale, he was writing off the loan. Well, strictly speaking, the loan was getting repaid in full and his shares were being bought for £1 - but same net result, a £100m sale (which dropped to £80m for a very brief period). In 2018 he is obviously forming the view that the club is in a much better position, so he can get his money back and more. Going to look a right twat when we go down and don't bounce straight back up, which I don't think we will do this time if it happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealios Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Someone clarify or correct. Ashley's initial loan was him paying off the club debt because he didn't do due dilligence? So the club value was what he paid plus that loan to make the club debt-free. What would that figure be, circa 250m? Any other money spent in the interim since then was part and parcel of running a football club and in addition he's had free advertising and, to my knowledge, has had some of the debt serviced, yes? The TV money dosn't come into the clubs value imo as all the clubs get TV money and it is therefore not a special consideration. The reason I am asking these questions is to try and decide if £250m was ridiculously low, or £380m was ridiculously high. The whole lack of due diligence thing didn't mean he didn't know about the loan, it was more that he didn't realise that it became immediately repayable following a change of control. He knew the loan was there, and the price of £135m reflected that loan. If the club didn't owe £100m to the banks, the club would have been worth a lot more. Being very simplistic, you could say that a debt free NUFC in 2007 was worth £235m, but the fact that there was £100m owed to banks meant Ashley was only going to pay £135m. Assuming NUFC in 2018 is being sold free of Ashley's debt, then it would appear that the £250m would be a tad on the low side if you look at it as how much 2007 NUFC should have increased in value to 2018 NUFC, given the huge increase in TV money. Even after the turmoil of the last 10 years, it isn't unreasonable to suggest that a £235m 2007 NUFC has increased to at least a £300m 2018 NUFC. Perhaps more, given that the international TV money isn't going to disappear any time soon. If you look at the increase in value of other Premier League clubs, then that percentage increase isn't a bad example. Isn't the huge increase in TV money offset by the huge increase in player fees and wages? Also considering we have sold most of our player assets, that means we will have to spend one hell of a lot just to catch up with the rest of the division as compared to two years ago. To a degree I think it is, but I think a lot of clubs are a lot healthier now in terms of wages to turnover ratio - we certainly are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altamullan Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Or the alternate is.....Ashley never really wanted to sell, used it as a cover to not spend in the transfer windows. Then oh dear someone showed an interest, and now he's done his best to make them say sod that after lying about them. Knowing there are no other bids, and look at the timing, yet again before an away game and ages before the next home game. Keep us up on the cheap for the next lot of TV money. I mean it's not like we haven't seen all this s*** before is it ? The only thing we can hope is, that really does want to sell but would you believe a word that man says, about anything ? Take your point. To me though, such an elaborate smokescreen would only really make sense if he felt he had something to lose (other than the obvious) by overtly choosing not to spend in the January window. What could he lose? He must be well aware he lost the good will of the fan base years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samag Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 They are both very experienced negotiators. Backed by a team of others used to getting the best possible deal; by hook or by crook. He still wants to sell, she/they still want to buy. They can’t agree on a price. No change basically. In effect Ashley’s ‘message’, is just a public way of demonstrating he isn’t willing to accept what they’ve offered. Again, not new information. Only question for me, after Ashley’s ‘move’, is how much does she/they want this? Despite all the extensive number crunching, they will have done, it is that which will determine how much flex there is what they are willing to pay. Spot on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odear Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I think he needs the money this time. Lots of factors. Brexit, some poor investments. It’s a good time to have cash. Staveley knows this which is why she low balled him. It’s backfired. Probably how the curry house concluded was “I’m off for my holidays, up your bid to something acceptable and we’ll talk then” No increased bid was made. He throws a strop. This is more of an indication that he’s really desperate to sell (but highly resents losing money on this) Staveley doesn’t have to do anything except wait and see just how desperate he gets. It’s destroying all goodwill we had towards her because she’s just treating the club as any old asset that can be bought and sold. I’m not sure she has the clubs best interests as a priority. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number9shirt Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 What did we learn from sky that we didn't know weeks ago... takeover is off, could still be on, so that'll be nothing then. We're in exactly the same position we have been in for over a month. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I think he needs the money this time. Lots of factors. Brexit, some poor investments. It’s a good time to have cash. Staveley knows this which is why she low balled him. It’s backfired. Probably how the curry house concluded was “I’m off for my holidays, up your bid to something acceptable and we’ll talk then” No increased bid was made. He throws a strop. This is more of an indication that he’s really desperate to sell (but highly resents losing money on this) Staveley doesn’t have to do anything except wait and see just how desperate he gets. It’s destroying all goodwill we had towards her because she’s just treating the club as any old asset that can be bought and sold. I’m not sure she has the clubs best interests as a priority. I’m pretty sure that her priorities have never been the clubs best interests. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Or the alternate is.....Ashley never really wanted to sell, used it as a cover to not spend in the transfer windows. Then oh dear someone showed an interest, and now he's done his best to make them say sod that after lying about them. Knowing there are no other bids, and look at the timing, yet again before an away game and ages before the next home game. Keep us up on the cheap for the next lot of TV money. I mean it's not like we haven't seen all this s*** before is it ? The only thing we can hope is, that really does want to sell but would you believe a word that man says, about anything ? Take your point. To me though, such an elaborate smokescreen would only really make sense if he felt he had something to lose (other than the obvious) by overtly choosing not to spend in the January window. What could he lose? He must be well aware he lost the good will of the fan base years ago. I hope you're right i really do, with this idiot you just don't know what he's going to do next. Other than lie of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 It is going to be painful for whoever does buy us. I remember when Ashley fucked off a meeting with Dubai Investment Capital after the KK saga as he thought their offer was derisory. He is a risk taker, he'll take the risk of us going down vs him getting a bit more elsewhere or stumping in the money to keep us up. It doesn't make a great deal of sense though because surely he can just loan the club 50 million to protect his asset and then when the club is sold the debt remains. He says he doesn't have the capital to do such but I would imagine it could be easily raised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 https://twitter.com/buzza9676/status/953404544515440641 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figures 1-0 Football Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 They are both very experienced negotiators. Backed by a team of others used to getting the best possible deal; by hook or by crook. He still wants to sell, she/they still want to buy. They can’t agree on a price. No change basically. In effect Ashley’s ‘message’, is just a public way of demonstrating he isn’t willing to accept what they’ve offered. Again, not new information. Only question for me, after Ashley’s ‘move’, is how much does she/they want this? Despite all the extensive number crunching, they will have done, it is that which will determine how much flex there is what they are willing to pay. nail on head Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingcrofty Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Could she even raise the cash ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Timewaster. Support the team, not the regime. MAGA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 So they make an article doubting the involvement of one of the backers, then they confirm the backers were involved and then clarify that at this stage there has been no need to clarify any further involvement. Journalism is getting worse like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Yeah wonder if she couldn't raise anything past £250m. Still think Ashley shouldn't be asking so much for a club he is lucky not to have completely run into the ground but sadly that's his prerogative. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Yeah wonder if she couldn't raise anything past £250m. Still think Ashley shouldn't be asking so much for a club he is lucky not to have completely run into the ground but sadly that's his prerogative. I don’t think she would have went this far to make her opening bid the most she could offer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Its all speculation but where would the extra money for investment come from if the money to purchase the club was so hard to come by. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Well at least there's some genuinely new information in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 So at least we got to know the source of the money then. What the fuck were all the ITK Accounts GS like the Geordie Dentist etc talking about? Looks to me like it was never Middle Easter dollar. I’m still ABA (Anyone but Ashley) but she might have been bad news too. I’ve got my doubts about her. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I was always concerned about who the backers were tbh, never sat well with me that it always Staveley this or that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 So at least we got to know the source of the money then. What the fuck were all the ITK Accounts GS like the Geordie Dentist etc talking about? Looks to me like it was never Middle Easter dollar. I’m still ABA (Anyone but Ashley) but she might have been bad news too. I’ve got my doubts about her. They were only 1 of the potential backers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts