TK-421 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Where’s Matt[/member] ? I’m not expert but to me this deal looks insanely risky, and they are leveraging the stadium and academy against paying back the loan?? It's not just those buildings/facilities. 'The Don' effectively said if they default on the repayments, then FPP get control of the club - the deal is basically secured against 'The Club'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Where’s Matt[/member] ? I’m not expert but to me this deal looks insanely risky, and they are leveraging the stadium and academy against paying back the loan?? It's not just those buildings/facilities. 'The Don' effectively said if they default on the repayments, then FPP get control of the club - the deal is basically secured against 'The Club'. Yep- the shares in 'Sunderland Limited' (immediate parent of the operating company) are included in the package. If they fail to repay, the chancers are out and they won't get a bean. However in terms of structure of the security documents, that looks pretty standard secured lending. The club must still be bleeding cash even though Ellis Short has got his £40m in parachute payments so any remaining amount will be going to the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Where’s Matt[/member] ? I’m not expert but to me this deal looks insanely risky, and they are leveraging the stadium and academy against paying back the loan?? It's not just those buildings/facilities. 'The Don' effectively said if they default on the repayments, then FPP get control of the club - the deal is basically secured against 'The Club'. Yep- the shares in 'Sunderland Limited' (immediate parent of the operating company) are included in the package. If they fail to repay, the chancers are out and they won't get a bean. However in terms of structure of the security documents, that looks pretty standard secured lending. The club must still be bleeding cash even though Ellis Short has got his £40m in parachute payments so any remaining amount will be going to the club. I thought they'd said it was not a loan and therefore not repayable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-421 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Where’s Matt[/member] ? I’m not expert but to me this deal looks insanely risky, and they are leveraging the stadium and academy against paying back the loan?? It's not just those buildings/facilities. 'The Don' effectively said if they default on the repayments, then FPP get control of the club - the deal is basically secured against 'The Club'. Yep- the shares in 'Sunderland Limited' (immediate parent of the operating company) are included in the package. If they fail to repay, the chancers are out and they won't get a bean. However in terms of structure of the security documents, that looks pretty standard secured lending. The club must still be bleeding cash even though Ellis Short has got his £40m in parachute payments so any remaining amount will be going to the club. I thought they'd said it was not a loan and therefore not repayable? Thats what they said to make it look like some rich Americans were just gifting them £10m, and before they'd realized that companies house documents would then be released showing the truth behind the 'Investment'. Hence, loads of mack-peddeling going on since then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 It could be any structure to be honest, the lender is a specialist credit fund. Could be quasi-equity- a very long or perpetual maturity, warrants or options on the shares. Impossible to tell. But you don't take security unless you have concerns about getting your money back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 It could be any structure to be honest, the lender is a specialist credit fund. Could be quasi-equity- a very long or perpetual maturity, warrants or options on the shares. Impossible to tell. But you don't take security unless you have concerns about getting your money back. But if you were a fan, you’d be hoping they can’t pay right? So the yanks get the club for fuck all? Or am I reading this wrong. I don’t see a downside to them not re paying They might not want the club, and just asset strip everything to get their money back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleazy Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 you are assuming the yanks would then plough more cash into them and not just sell off any assets to get their money back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-421 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 It could be any structure to be honest, the lender is a specialist credit fund. Could be quasi-equity- a very long or perpetual maturity, warrants or options on the shares. Impossible to tell. But you don't take security unless you have concerns about getting your money back. But if you were a fan, you’d be hoping they can’t pay right? So the yanks get the club for fuck all? Or am I reading this wrong. I don’t see a downside to them not re paying Suppose it depends if FPP really want to be lumbered with a 3rd division club with dwindling crowds (damn you North Sea!), it Madrox default on the repayment. Here is some more detail from The Don, from todays Chronic... https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stewart-donald-explains-consequences-sunderlands-17253146 "The investment we have got - or loan, if you want to call it that - is into our holding company Madrox, and that owns Sunderland in its entireity," said Donald. "There are some confidentiality [agreements] around it but I will explain it as best I can, very simply the money has come in and it is secured against everything that Madrox owns. "So the only exposure, in reality, is for Juan, Charlie and I, because if we don't make good on the repayment, all that basically happens is - what quite a lot of Sunderland fans want, I think - is that the guys who have lent us the money will have control of Madrox. "We'd lose the money that we have invested, that would go into the ether, and the American investors would get the lot. "They [FPP] only needed security over the shares because the shares control everything but, belt and braces as far as they are concerned, they have secured it against everything. "Very simply, they have invested into us, we will invest that money in Sunderland, and if we don't invest it well or if we don't make any repayments on the terms we have agreed, then it [Madrox] defaults to them. "The only lose-lose would be for Juan, Charlie and I. The reality is that Sunderland has got no debt, the ones that have the debt is ourselves to the Americans." "It won't be defaulted. We can get the money. "Juan could put the money in tomorrow, I could put the money in - although Juan would find it easier than me. "I could have asked Juan - who indeed offered - to put in the same amount of money [as FPP], but the idea was to get these guys, for a whole host of reasons, and the reality is that Madrox is always going to owe whoever invests in Madrox the money. Donald says he is bound by a confidentiality agreement which prevents him revealing the when the money has to be repaid. He said: "I cannot discuss what their arrangement is with Madrox. "The facts that I can divulge are that Sunderland has got no debt, no loan, and Madrox now has a financial arrangement with the investors and that is our responsibility to satisfy." Donald says the fact that Fuhrman, Phelan, and Platek, have backed the current owners to the tune of £9m should be seen as a vote of confidence in their stewardship of the club. And he rejected suggestions from some fans that the current owners are 'chancers' waiting to 'cash-in'. He also revealed that they could have left in the summer and banked a profit in excess of £30m, but opted to stay. He said: "It's fair game, you can criticise us for appointing the managers, changing the managers, whatever you like on the football side. "But one thing that isn't fair, that isn't right, is that we have come here as chancers to cash in and take the money. "We could have quite easily walked away with £30m-plus profit in the summer, but we chose not to do that because the idea was to bring in quality investment. "We've had lots of people interested in the club and we got quite a long way down the line with others, but we stopped those in their tracks for this investment. "Why have we done that? We have done that because of the people who are involved in investing with us. "They are globally reputable, they have wonderful connections. "If we can demonstrate to them that their investment has been handled right, that there is a structure and a plan, which I appreciate some fans don't think is right, but fortunately there are some American billionaires with a business track-record who think we are doing a good job. "Why have they [FPP] invested? That's really a question for them. "But I would imagine they have looked at loads of sports clubs across Europe to invest in, and they have seen a football club that has been turned around. "They believe in what we are trying to do and they want to come along for the journey." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Sure, Juan could have put in money, but we thought it would be better to get some hedge fund money in and give them security over everything. Also having a specific charge over the real estate as well as over the shares in the intermediate company means that it can be enforced separately, leaving the 'club' with the current owners. The lenders are not obliged to enforce all the security at once. It's not simply belt and braces. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest covmag Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 As a fan I’d be raging, they need investment on the field or one day they will go tits up. It’s glorious Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled in Texas Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 And the Americans really are here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 This is Coventry all over again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 It's a heck of a deal for the Americans tbf - imagine how much they would get from £10M loan, just selling their stadium they'd get 4x their money back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 The Don isn't going to want to lose out though, he will make those repayments, whether they have to sell the seats, pimp the tea lady out or melt the players down for glue, he is not going to want to lose it all for nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiedean Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 It's a heck of a deal for the Americans tbf - imagine how much they would get from £10M loan, just selling their stadium they'd get 4x their money back. Nonsense their stadium isn't even worth 5m let alone the 40 you've stated Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Is that 40M with shit stained seats or no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoreboard82 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Listened last night. The accusations that they are chancers prepared to take any profit and run seemed to touch a raw nerve. Wonder why? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Truth always hurts. The fact he genuinely thinks he's turned them around when they're at their lowest point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest covmag Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 I’m really worried about them, imagine no more derbies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam1 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 I’m really worried about them, imagine no more derbies Fuck em. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 They wouldn't be worried about us if the situation was reversed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 They wouldn't be worried about us if the situation was reversed. covmag hates the mackems as much as he does Ashley. I'm sure his comments were dropped in sarcasm. ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Dripped (bloody predictive)! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Mag Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Jack Dross to be announced as Hibs manager tomorrow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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