The Gareth Southgate Appreciation Thread (Warning may contain lots of words)

[Mole_Toonfan]

Everyone did man.  Anyone pretending they didn't is talking out their arse.

 

Not necessarily, I've got posts before the tournament saying I'm more positive than most because I saw a team in the friendlies which actually looked like a team.

 

I didn't for a million years think we'd make a semi final but I didn't think we'd get embarrassed either.

[BlufPurdi]

I'm talking more about the day of his appointment.  Where you as positive then?  Genuine question by the way.

[Mole_Toonfan]

I'm talking more about the day of his appointment.  Where you as positive then?  Genuine question by the way.

 

Oh no thought you meant with regards to the tournament.

 

In that case I agree, everyone was talking out of their arse tbh

[Zero]

It is a fact that he has got a lot of lucks in this World Cup. Without Lady Luck England won't be in semi final.

 

It is also a fact that he adopted a tactic that works well for the team that is lack of qualities.  Although not attractive, uninspiring, and in a way over conservative, he did manage to bring out the best of the team. Beating Sweden is not as easy as it looks Considering  Swedens recent records.

 

He has earned another four years imo.

 

[Wullie]

In what many ways have England been lucky?

[Zero]

In what many ways have England been lucky?

 

The draws.

[STM]

Thing is though Russia knocked out Spain and SK beat Germany. Why wouldn't we have knocked them out? For long periods Sweden looked like stopping Germany, yet we beat Sweden comfortably.

 

It's an odd arguement that we would have had an easier side of the draw had "the big nations"... been any good.

[Guest]

Italy were lucky as fuck to win the World Cup in 2006 then. Do you think they give a fuck? Same with Germany in 2002 to get to the Final.

[BlufPurdi]

Italy were lucky as fuck to win the World Cup in 2006 then. Do you think they give a fuck? Same with Germany in 2002 to get to the Final.

 

I don't really care how we win it.  If we win the whole thing I'll celebrate like I've never before.  I think what people are trying get at is we won't necessarily be the best team in the world.  You know, like when France took the WC in '98.  Everyone could quite clearly see they were the best side around, nobody could beat them.  Same with Spain's time.  You get world cup winners like that, that are genuinely unstoppable, brilliant teams. 

 

I don't think we are, unless there's something that happens in the next two games to suggest it.  That is worth pointing out, there's not much point being overly pedantic about luck.  We wouldn't be 'those' WC winners, we'd be the lucky ones, the ones forgotten by the rest of the world, but we'll remember it of course.  You point out Italy, but who looks back on that team and thinks "wow, they were sublime"?  Like we do so many others.  All I remember from that final is Zidane.

 

And we have been lucky.  Any other year, that shot goes in in the last minutes of the Colombia game, then we lose on pens.  Pens are inherently about luck, whether it's own or their misfortune.  We indeed sought the easier half of the draw, so pointing out how crap Spain, Germany or Brazil indeed were is irrelevant.  It was indicative of our own belief we're not that good, so let's keep it to teams we feel we can handle.  Suddenly, as ever with England, we win a few games and we think we can take the world.

 

At this stage we should feel like we could beat anyone left.  But let's not rewrite history either. 

[Hanshithispantz]

In what many ways have England been lucky?

 

The draws.

It isn’t luck that we fielded a 2nd string side with no real intention of winning the group like

[Beren]

Bluf

[BlufPurdi]

In what many ways have England been lucky?

 

The draws.

It isn’t luck that we fielded a 2nd string side with no real intention of winning the group like

 

It's luck that the opportunity presented itself though.  Not often either side of the draw can be seen in such contrast.  Any other time it's a case of win as many games as you can, don't think beyond the group stage. 

[54]

Why are people trying to down play us getting to the semi-final of a World Cup? I mean, come on.

 

Also based on who we've played so far we have the second highest average ranking of the teams left.

[Wullie]

I know what point you're making Bluf but people forget how much of the stuff about "unstoppable" World Cup winners is written in hindsight. Spain could easily have gone out of the 2010 World Cup if Paraguay hadn't missed a penalty against them. They also lost their first game. France in 1998 needed a defender to score an extra time winner vs Paraguay following a goalless draw, penalties to beat Italy (after another goalless draw) then another defender to score a brace against Croatia in the semi final having gone behind.

 

World Cup winners who look good all the way through is almost unheard of.

[Hanshithispantz]

In what many ways have England been lucky?

 

The draws.

It isn’t luck that we fielded a 2nd string side with no real intention of winning the group like

 

It's luck that the opportunity presented itself though.  Not often either side of the draw can be seen in such contrast.  Any other time it's a case of win as many games as you can, don't think beyond the group stage. 

Oh aye deffinitely. Even then though it’s fairly likely that a couple of teams in a tournament will always get a favourable last 16 and quarters for a straight run to the semis (we had Belgium - when they were shit - and Cameroon in 1990) we just sort of guarenteed it this year - everyone on this side of the draw bar Russia really had it easy.

[BlufPurdi]

I know what point you're making Bluf but people forget how much of the stuff about "unstoppable" World Cup winners is written in hindsight. Spain could easily have gone out of the 2010 World Cup if Paraguay hadn't missed a penalty against them. They also lost their first game. France in 1998 needed a defender to score an extra time winner vs Paraguay following a goalless draw, penalties to beat Italy then another defender to score a brace against Croatia in the semi final having gone behind.

 

World Cup winners who look good all the way through is almost unheard of.

 

I suppose that's fair, yeah.  The first tournament win can be the making of an unstoppable team.  I don't agree it's unheard of, though, and you do often see the signs before the tournament. 

 

What you're pointing out is one or two things in isolation (with regards to Spain anyway), I am of the opinion we've ridden our luck more than that here, but I might be in a minority with that view.

 

54, it's a discussion, no one is talking us down, this isn't Brexit.

 

I still stand by my initial post, we won't be remembered as a great team (IF) winning this world cup.

[54]

I know what point you're making Bluf but people forget how much of the stuff about "unstoppable" World Cup winners is written in hindsight. Spain could easily have gone out of the 2010 World Cup if Paraguay hadn't missed a penalty against them. They also lost their first game. France in 1998 needed a defender to score an extra time winner vs Paraguay following a goalless draw, penalties to beat Italy then another defender to score a brace against Croatia in the semi final having gone behind.

 

World Cup winners who look good all the way through is almost unheard of.

 

I suppose that's fair, yeah.  The first tournament win can be the making of an unstoppable team.  I don't agree it's unheard of, though, and you do often see the signs before the tournament.  What you're pointing out is one or two things in isolation, I am of the opinion we've ridden our luck more than that here, but I might be in a minority with that view.

 

54, it's a discussion, no one is 'talking us down', this isn't Brexit.

I wasn't on about this thread tbh, although I can see why, I had just read some bullshit on Twitter and was annoyed.

[Wullie]

In terms of lucky breaks on the field we've basically not had or needed any tbh.  The only luck you can really say we've had is Germany not winning their group.

[mrmojorisin75]

Not sure if luck is the right word but you'd have to be lying to yourself if you said things hadn't really gone our way. Various teams our side of the draw knocking themselves out through abject shitness, Rodriguez being injured when we played Colombia and such.

 

Also no point in pretending these things don't go for every tournament winner.

 

We've played well and done everything asked so far. You won't win a world cup without beating a good team and we're gonna have to beat two if we're to do it.

 

It's been an easy ride so far imo, relatively speaking, but that's over now.

[BlufPurdi]

Fair.

[Beren]

I know what point you're making Bluf but people forget how much of the stuff about "unstoppable" World Cup winners is written in hindsight. Spain could easily have gone out of the 2010 World Cup if Paraguay hadn't missed a penalty against them. They also lost their first game. France in 1998 needed a defender to score an extra time winner vs Paraguay following a goalless draw, penalties to beat Italy then another defender to score a brace against Croatia in the semi final having gone behind.

 

World Cup winners who look good all the way through is almost unheard of.

 

Fair post.

 

If we forget there's still two games left in the tournament for a second: on a scale of 1-10, how much confidence would you have in this England side beating the following teams in a one-off competitive match:

 

Brazil

Spain

Uruguay

Portugal

Germany

 

This isn't to play down what England have achieved so far. They've been really professional in dispatching what's been put in front of them for the most part, and they may not have hit fifth gear yet (or had cause to), but I think you'd have had confidence in backing some of the previous World Cup winners to beat or draw against the overwhelming majority of teams in their tournament 9 times out of 10.

 

And I do think Gareth Southgate has been lucky. All the personality stuff is smashing, and he's very affable, but the Dier penalty was very savable and his in-game management hasn't impressed me so far!

[Mole_Toonfan]

Not sure if luck is the right word but you'd have to be lying to yourself if you said things hadn't really gone our way. Various teams our side of the draw knocking themselves out through abject shitness, Rodriguez being injured when we played Colombia and such.

 

Also no point in pretending these things don't go for every tournament winner.

 

We've played well and done everything asked so far. You won't win a world cup without beating a good team and we're gonna have to beat two if we're to do it.

 

It's been an easy ride so far imo, relatively speaking, but that's over now.

 

Outside of Belgium vs Brazil, nobody in the semi finals has faced a particularly tough route tbh. It's not like it's particularly unique to us, France beat a Uruguay side without Cavani and an Argentina side who were barely a team to begin with. Croatia beat Denmark and Russia etc etc.

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

Not sure if luck is the right word but you'd have to be lying to yourself if you said things hadn't really gone our way. Various teams our side of the draw knocking themselves out through abject shitness, Rodriguez being injured when we played Colombia and such.

 

Also no point in pretending these things don't go for every tournament winner.

 

We've played well and done everything asked so far. You won't win a world cup without beating a good team and we're gonna have to beat two if we're to do it.

 

It's been an easy ride so far imo, relatively speaking, but that's over now.

 

Outside of Belgium vs Brazil, nobody in the semi finals has faced a particularly tough route tbh. It's not like it's particularly unique to us, France beat a Uruguay side without Cavani and an Argentina side who were barely a team to begin with. Croatia beat Denmark and Russia etc etc.

Yeah, I didn't say other teams hadn't had good fortune as well. Just that England absolutely have.

[Interpolic]

I know what point you're making Bluf but people forget how much of the stuff about "unstoppable" World Cup winners is written in hindsight. Spain could easily have gone out of the 2010 World Cup if Paraguay hadn't missed a penalty against them. They also lost their first game. France in 1998 needed a defender to score an extra time winner vs Paraguay following a goalless draw, penalties to beat Italy then another defender to score a brace against Croatia in the semi final having gone behind.

 

World Cup winners who look good all the way through is almost unheard of.

You almost don't want to blitz through the first 3-5 games, teams peaking too early is a real thing in these tournaments and we've seen it many times before. I'm hoping that's what Croatia did against Argentina because they've been mediocre against average opposition in the knockout games so far.

 

[Mole_Toonfan]

I'm not so sure Croatia peaked too early more that Argentina are clearly utter wank But i guess we'll find out on Wednesday.