Sean Longstaff

[LFEE]

3 minutes ago, Upthemags said:

Didn't mean to get chippy if I came off that way. He definitely had a nice little run I recall once Sandro went down. And I recall it being, in the moment, the right choice to start him over Sandro during Sandro's struggles. From my perspective, he is neither technically capable, nor athletic, and usually, you'd like one of the two, and preferably both.

No offence taken 👍🏻 I did nearly add I attended all those games home & away apart from watching Wolves & West Ham on the TV.

 

I’m not a fan of his to be clear. I guess that’s the point I’m trying to make. I can see his limitations but not much he can do about them in a physical sense. The criticism for him should always be evened out by the fact he was willing to be overplayed to help the team and was injured from December but tried his best. He can’t help how fast he is etc but regardless without him that first half of the season before his injury he made a significant contribution to the team. Most of it the unseen work that doesn’t always catch the eye. Especially if not at the actual game.

[Upthemags]

10 minutes ago, Bimpy474 said:

By the way there's no dislike of the lad, I cheer him as much as I would Bruno for instance, just with more moaning.

 

However, alongside Miggy, Murphy and BDB to name a few, you can see they need to be upgraded. It's the unfortunate way of progression that some players will get squeezed out. 

 

As squad players they're fine, but that's rapidly coming to head as we do indeed upgrade.

BDB did a job latter half last season to be fair

[Upthemags]

1 minute ago, LFEE said:

No offence taken 👍🏻 I did nearly add I attended all those games home & away apart from watching Wolves & West Ham on the TV.

 

I’m not a fan of his to be clear. I guess that’s the point I’m trying to make. I can see his limitations but not much he can do about them in a physical sense. The criticism for him should always be evened out by the fact he was willing to be overplayed to help the team and was injured from December but tried his best. He can’t help how fast he is etc but regardless without him that first half of the season before his injury he made a significant contribution to the team. Most of it the unseen work that doesn’t always catch the eye. Especially if not at the actual game.

Absolutely - should have hastened to add that he was put in a tough spot last season. Don't doubt he did what he could and it wasn't his fault his replacement was done the entire year

[Terrymac1966]

Tonali will be a different animal when we see him again. Italian football is slow and gives you time. Tonali will be a lot fitter now understand fully how the team plays and be completely 'Eddied' Longstaff will play as his 'second in position'

[AyeDubbleYoo]

10 minutes ago, LFEE said:

No offence taken 👍🏻 I did nearly add I attended all those games home & away apart from watching Wolves & West Ham on the TV.

 

I’m not a fan of his to be clear. I guess that’s the point I’m trying to make. I can see his limitations but not much he can do about them in a physical sense. The criticism for him should always be evened out by the fact he was willing to be overplayed to help the team and was injured from December but tried his best. He can’t help how fast he is etc but regardless without him that first half of the season before his injury he made a significant contribution to the team. Most of it the unseen work that doesn’t always catch the eye. Especially if not at the actual game.

 

I'm not sure I fully buy this unseen work thing, because I watch the games and don't see it. But happy to accept that I'm biased against him and might not be able to fairly assess it. 

[LFEE]

14 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

I'm not sure I fully buy this unseen work thing, because I watch the games and don't see it. But happy to accept that I'm biased against him and might not be able to fairly assess it. 

You didn’t see it regarding Jacob Murphy either 🙂

 

No good trying to judge anything fairly if admittedly bias against it.

 

At least you admit though 🙂👍🏻 Respect!

[AyeDubbleYoo]

7 minutes ago, LFEE said:

You didn’t see it regarding Jacob Murphy either 🙂

 

No good trying to judge anything fairly if admittedly bias against it.

 

At least you admit though 🙂👍🏻 Respect!

 

I admit I notice his mistakes primarily, because I've spent so long watching him making them.

 

Judging him on unseen work is fundamentally difficult I guess, stats would be the way to do that if I could be bothered to look them up. 

 

Murphy was also hopeless for a long time

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 15:41 by AyeDubbleYoo

[LFEE]

1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

I admit I notice his mistakes primarily, because I've spent so long watching him making them.

 

Judging him on unseen work is fundamentally difficult I guess, stats would be the way to do that if I could be bothered to look them up. 

 

I disagree. Stats don’t pick up unseen work. Hence why they call it unseen. I don’t know of any stats that highlight him taking up certain positions on the pitch in certain scenarios or slowing down an oppositions attack  by blocking certain passing lanes etc. Maybe ‘I’m wrong and they are more sophisticated these days.

 

Personally I’ll always take my own eyes over stats when judging a player. The irony is our judgement of Longstaff is not that dissimilar from the regular discussions we have. I think we both see the same faults. It’s our patience of his limitations and understanding of his fitness circumstances and his appreciation of him doing the dirty work is probably where we differ. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Well if the eyes or the stats don't pick it up, the argument will remain unresolved

 

Get the overall point though. 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 15:46 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Holmesy]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

The idea that they get stick just because they play badly isn't exactly true like. 

 

I think it's fairer to say that they maybe gain a reputation for not performing well, then they become an easy target after that almost regardless of how they play or whether they're to blame, until they overcome it. Then for some it sticks and that's it, forever.

 

Longstaff didn't perform well last season (output notwithstanding), but it definitely applies with Miggy at times and, I think that 100% applies to Dan Burn last season. You'd think he was having 3 Bramble moments a match the way some people went on. 

 

We all know what our fans are like for scapegoating. 

I was one of Burn's biggest critics last season but like you say, there were only one or two games where there were blatant errors. The rest of it was positional and pace based and that wasn't really his fault. He was massively exposed for a run of about 7-8 games and it cost us goals. But despite me hurling vitriol at BDB out of pure frustration, the blame laid at the feet of the manager for persisting with him. 

 

But then moved into his correct position, Burn was probably our standout player towards the end of the season. 

 

Unfortunately for some of these players, we're in a transition from one thing to another. We have some world-beaters who are playing alongside hangovers from our previous iteration and probably making them appear worse than they actually are. 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 16:12 by Holmesy

[Skeletor]

Criticism of his performances is fine. We all know he is a limited player. But nothing he's done deserves the vitriol in all the years he's played for us.

[LFEE]

3 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Well if the eyes or the stats don't pick it up, the argument will remain unresolved

 

Get the overall point though. 

 

 

 

And don’t forget I’m in the sell this summer camp whereas you think we need him for cover!  So please don’t ever take my defence of him as me being a fan of his!

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 15:49 by LFEE

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just now, LFEE said:

And don’t forget I’m in the sell this summer camp whereas you think we need him for cover!  So please don’t ever take my defence of him as me being a fan of his!

 

I'd rather have him replaced, but I think we need someone. 

[Coffee_Johnny]

5 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Well if the eyes or the stats don't pick it up, the argument will remain unresolved

 

Get the overall point though. 

 

 

 

For what it’s worth @LFEE, at the peak of my well meant (as in he is not very far from being the kind of top midfielder we need) Longy frustration I consciously decided to focus on what he was doing, or doing well, rather than any errors forced or unforced, or seemingly bad decisions. It did make a difference to how I saw him. It’s a lot easier to see this at a live game than on TV, as you get a much better sense of a player’s movement, closing down,  effort  and tactical nous. He’s a great player to have in the squad, but think I’d still take a punt on a Rabiot type as a replacement 😉

[LFEE]

2 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

I'd rather have him replaced, but I think we need someone. 

 

We’ve got 2x Miley, Tonali, Hall, White, Willock to play mainly with Joelinton & Bruno… Schar even  

 

Keep saying we’ve six big less games this season before it even starts. Even if we got to 2 cup finals it would still be 1 game less than last season.

 

In an ideal none PSR world (am I allowed to mention it!?) I agree you keep or replace but I think it maybe used as a pathway spot which makes sense if most people are in agreement its his/the place in the team/1st team squad that looks easiest to upgrade on.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I'm not against that progression, yep, especially think Miley(s) and White look tidy. 

 

Hall and Tonali are accounted for though, they're already starters. 

[GideonShandy]

1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

I'm not sure I fully buy this unseen work thing, because I watch the games and don't see it. But happy to accept that I'm biased against him and might not be able to fairly assess it. 

The thing about unseen work is that you don't see it.