AlanSkÃrare Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Had a look in WyScout, one of the most well-renowned and used statistical tools among clubs. Our "expected points" is 16.9, we're 19th in that table with only Aston Villa behind us on 16.4. It's the impression put into numbers: We've picked up results without playing well, had Dubravka save us again and again, and it speaks volumes. Bruce has very little to do with us doing well, and we aren't doing very well at all, we're just picking up results that we generally don't deserve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Had a look in WyScout, one of the most well-renowned and used statistical tools among clubs. Our "expected points" is 16.9, we're 19th in that table with only Aston Villa behind us on 16.4. It's the impression put into numbers: We've picked up results without playing well, had Dubravka save us again and again, and it speaks volumes. Bruce has very little to do with us doing well, and we aren't doing very well at all, we're just picking up results that we generally don't deserve. Which is exactly what happened with Pardew in the 5th season. Some of us were saying then that it's unsustainable, that the football was shite and we couldn't keep riding our luck. It'll come back and bite us in the arse, you can't have a team relying on their fucking defenders to score the goals and expect to be able to hold that up over the long term. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Had a look in WyScout, one of the most well-renowned and used statistical tools among clubs. Our "expected points" is 16.9, we're 19th in that table with only Aston Villa behind us on 16.4. It's the impression put into numbers: We've picked up results without playing well, had Dubravka save us again and again, and it speaks volumes. Bruce has very little to do with us doing well, and we aren't doing very well at all, we're just picking up results that we generally don't deserve. Yep, we've been lucky as fuck. We've faced teams severely depleted (Man Utd), other teams that just didn't bother turning up (Spurs, West Ham) and fluked a couple of 1-0s that should have gone the other way (and even the 2-0 at Sheffield United according to some, I haven't even seen highlights so can't say for myself). We've not been fucked by refereeing decisions either for the first season in god knows how long. If the perfect storm keeps up, this form can continue. Otherwise there could be a huge drop off, especially if injuries/tiredness hits at the same time as our luck turns. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samptime29 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Had a look in WyScout, one of the most well-renowned and used statistical tools among clubs. Our "expected points" is 16.9, we're 19th in that table with only Aston Villa behind us on 16.4. It's the impression put into numbers: We've picked up results without playing well, had Dubravka save us again and again, and it speaks volumes. Bruce has very little to do with us doing well, and we aren't doing very well at all, we're just picking up results that we generally don't deserve. Yep, we've been lucky as fuck. We've faced teams severely depleted (Man Utd), other teams that just didn't bother turning up (Spurs, West Ham) and fluked a couple of 1-0s that should have gone the other way (and even the 2-0 at Sheffield United according to some, I haven't even seen highlights so can't say for myself). We've not been fucked by refereeing decisions either for the first season in god knows how long. If the perfect storm keeps up, this form can continue. Otherwise there could be a huge drop off, especially if injuries/tiredness hits at the same time as our luck turns. We've had some luck for sure, but we were excellent against West Ham for 60 mins. Easily could have been 5-0 after 60 mins. Spurs was a really good performance, we've shown strong character to come from behind and pick up 8 points against Watford, Bournemouth, City, and Southampton. If we were just "lucky" no chance we'd be on 25 points after 18 games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon25 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Will be interesting to see if anyone is brought in in Jan. That’ll dictate whether the bottom will fall out sooner rather than later Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I’m getting a public hanging on Twitter for this tweet about local hero Brucie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I’m getting a public hanging on Twitter for this tweet about local hero Brucie Out of interest, what do you want to achieve by putting out something like that? Are you genuinely aiming to highlight that we've been 'lucky', or do you just get a buzz out of the backlash it causes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest covmag Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Had a look in WyScout, one of the most well-renowned and used statistical tools among clubs. Our "expected points" is 16.9, we're 19th in that table with only Aston Villa behind us on 16.4. It's the impression put into numbers: We've picked up results without playing well, had Dubravka save us again and again, and it speaks volumes. Bruce has very little to do with us doing well, and we aren't doing very well at all, we're just picking up results that we generally don't deserve. Yep, we've been lucky as fuck. We've faced teams severely depleted (Man Utd), other teams that just didn't bother turning up (Spurs, West Ham) and fluked a couple of 1-0s that should have gone the other way (and even the 2-0 at Sheffield United according to some, I haven't even seen highlights so can't say for myself). We've not been fucked by refereeing decisions either for the first season in god knows how long. If the perfect storm keeps up, this form can continue. Otherwise there could be a huge drop off, especially if injuries/tiredness hits at the same time as our luck turns. The Sheffield result and performance if Rafa was in charge would have been hailed as a masterclass, you didn’t watch it .Yep he’s had all the luck eh? Every result the team never deserved, yet it pains you that we sit 9th, it’s fucking killing you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 We're basically a smash and grab team under Bruce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I’m getting a public hanging on Twitter for this tweet about local hero Brucie Out of interest, what do you want to achieve by putting out something like that? Are you genuinely aiming to highlight that we've been 'lucky', or do you just get a buzz out of the backlash it causes? Mainly because the media and local journalists seem totally oblivious to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samptime29 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Had a look in WyScout, one of the most well-renowned and used statistical tools among clubs. Our "expected points" is 16.9, we're 19th in that table with only Aston Villa behind us on 16.4. It's the impression put into numbers: We've picked up results without playing well, had Dubravka save us again and again, and it speaks volumes. Bruce has very little to do with us doing well, and we aren't doing very well at all, we're just picking up results that we generally don't deserve. Yep, we've been lucky as fuck. We've faced teams severely depleted (Man Utd), other teams that just didn't bother turning up (Spurs, West Ham) and fluked a couple of 1-0s that should have gone the other way (and even the 2-0 at Sheffield United according to some, I haven't even seen highlights so can't say for myself). We've not been fucked by refereeing decisions either for the first season in god knows how long. If the perfect storm keeps up, this form can continue. Otherwise there could be a huge drop off, especially if injuries/tiredness hits at the same time as our luck turns. The Sheffield result and performance if Rafa was in charge would have been hailed as a masterclass, you didn’t watch it .Yep he’s had all the luck eh? Every result the team never deserved, yet it pains you that we sit 9th, it’s fucking killing you I shudder to think what Sean would be posting if we were sitting on 16 points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I’m getting a public hanging on Twitter for this tweet about local hero Brucie Out of interest, what do you want to achieve by putting out something like that? Are you genuinely aiming to highlight that we've been 'lucky', or do you just get a buzz out of the backlash it causes? Fair enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I doubt Bruce be still be god on Twitter after the next 8 games. Man Utd Everton Leicester Wolves Chelsea Everton Norwich Arsenal 4/5 losses in the next 8 at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 We're basically a smash and grab team under Bruce. We were under Rafa as well tbf, but there was always the impression that he was trying to refine us and gradually get us playing more fluid football. With Bruce you get the feeling there's nothing else, he's just going to ride the wave of Rafa's defensive organisation for as long as he can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I know they were the weakest team in the division but I doubt we'll ever see as zippy and threatening performance as the Huddersfield home game last season, for instance. It's a total myth that we played boring percentages football all the time under Rafa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 We're basically a smash and grab team under Bruce. We were under Rafa as well tbf, but there was always the impression that he was trying to refine us and gradually get us playing more fluid football. With Bruce you get the feeling there's nothing else, he's just going to ride the wave of Rafa's defensive organisation for as long as he can. You mean like being the 4th highest scoring team in the league in the second half of last season? To now being the 3rd lowest scorers. In the last 17 games under Rafa we scored 27 goals. In the first 17 games under Bruce we scored 17 goals. We’ve gone back a year. Far less of an attacking threat now compared to the second half of last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 We're basically a smash and grab team under Bruce. We were under Rafa as well tbf, but there was always the impression that he was trying to refine us and gradually get us playing more fluid football. With Bruce you get the feeling there's nothing else, he's just going to ride the wave of Rafa's defensive organisation for as long as he can. You mean like being the 4th highest scoring team in the league in the second half of last season? To now being the 3rd lowest scorers. In the last 17 games under Rafa we scored 27 goals. In the first 17 games under Bruce we scored 17 goals. We’ve gone back a year. Far less of an attacking threat now compared to the second half of last season. Not having two-thirds of the strikeforce from that period might also have something to do with it mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 We're basically a smash and grab team under Bruce. We were under Rafa as well tbf, but there was always the impression that he was trying to refine us and gradually get us playing more fluid football. With Bruce you get the feeling there's nothing else, he's just going to ride the wave of Rafa's defensive organisation for as long as he can. I'm certain you're saying the same thing as me though... Listen to Rafa describe his team towards the end of last season and it was an extremely thoughtful plan from the get-go. Compact defense and balance. Listen to him describe the team - Lejeune & Schar with ability on ball, Lascelles a no-nonsense defender, width via wingbacks, pairing a ball-winner with a box-to-box midfielder who has a better eye for goal, wide forwards and a focal point striker. When he was able to get the team finally rolling it was clear and ruthless what he was doing and with continued investment it would be more counter attacking precision, likelier better pressers of the ball, and more ruthless in attack. In Bruce you have a man who does the classic "let's entertain the fans and play front foot football" and it bloody failed instantly. He's basically kept spirits up by being a good man manager, he's built on the togetherness, he's been fortunate that we have a team of real honest professionals, he's been fortunate for Rafa's 2 years with these players, he's added genuine pace in ASM and right now we're defending great and smashing a goal in late to keep it going. But when the going got tough on HIS PLAN, he reverted to Rafa's tactics with some tweaks. What will he do if that isn't working? The results at Norwich, Leicester, and Burnely don't happen under a Rafa team this season. He'd not sacrifice the balance, it's a narrow loss or draw or smash & grab win but with PURPOSE. He looked at each fixture as a means to accumulate as many points as possible, conserve the energy, finish strong. Bruce seemingly is just throwing out the team, bigging them up, keeping the spirits high, and hoping for the best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 We're basically a smash and grab team under Bruce. We were under Rafa as well tbf, but there was always the impression that he was trying to refine us and gradually get us playing more fluid football. With Bruce you get the feeling there's nothing else, he's just going to ride the wave of Rafa's defensive organisation for as long as he can. You mean like being the 4th highest scoring team in the league in the second half of last season? To now being the 3rd lowest scorers. In the last 17 games under Rafa we scored 27 goals. In the first 17 games under Bruce we scored 17 goals. We’ve gone back a year. Far less of an attacking threat now compared to the second half of last season. Not having two-thirds of the strikeforce from that period might also have something to do with it mind. Yeah he only spent £60million to replace them Can’t make excuses for someone with a front 3 that cost £80million being bottom for nearly every attacking stat going. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 We're basically a smash and grab team under Bruce. We were under Rafa as well tbf, but there was always the impression that he was trying to refine us and gradually get us playing more fluid football. With Bruce you get the feeling there's nothing else, he's just going to ride the wave of Rafa's defensive organisation for as long as he can. You mean like being the 4th highest scoring team in the league in the second half of last season? To now being the 3rd lowest scorers. In the last 17 games under Rafa we scored 27 goals. In the first 17 games under Bruce we scored 17 goals. We’ve gone back a year. Far less of an attacking threat now compared to the second half of last season. Not having two-thirds of the strikeforce from that period might also have something to do with it mind. Yeah he only spent £60million to replace them Can’t make excuses for someone with a front 3 that cost £80million being bottom for nearly every attacking stat going. He was not given £60 milion to replace them. He was given two players allegedly worth that to replace them. One of which who has, thus far, lived up to his price tag, and one which who has absolutely not. Clearly, we/Bruce, need to make massive improvements to our attacking play if we're going to improve in the long run, but let's not make out he came along, chucked away Rafa's attacking methods, and replaced them with his own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 We're basically a smash and grab team under Bruce. We were under Rafa as well tbf, but there was always the impression that he was trying to refine us and gradually get us playing more fluid football. With Bruce you get the feeling there's nothing else, he's just going to ride the wave of Rafa's defensive organisation for as long as he can. You mean like being the 4th highest scoring team in the league in the second half of last season? To now being the 3rd lowest scorers. In the last 17 games under Rafa we scored 27 goals. In the first 17 games under Bruce we scored 17 goals. We’ve gone back a year. Far less of an attacking threat now compared to the second half of last season. Not having two-thirds of the strikeforce from that period might also have something to do with it mind. Yeah he only spent £60million to replace them Can’t make excuses for someone with a front 3 that cost £80million being bottom for nearly every attacking stat going. He was not given £60 milion to replace them. He was given two players allegedly worth that to replace them. One of which who has, thus far, lived up to his price tag, and one which who has absolutely not. Clearly, we/Bruce, need to make massive improvements to our attacking play if we're going to improve in the long run, but let's not make out he came along, chucked away Rafa's attacking methods, and replaced them with his own. I think a huge percentage of managers would get more out of the forward players that he has. We’ve got Steve Pulis as manager. His Birmingham side got relegated scoring only 28 goals all season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 We're basically a smash and grab team under Bruce. We were under Rafa as well tbf, but there was always the impression that he was trying to refine us and gradually get us playing more fluid football. With Bruce you get the feeling there's nothing else, he's just going to ride the wave of Rafa's defensive organisation for as long as he can. You mean like being the 4th highest scoring team in the league in the second half of last season? To now being the 3rd lowest scorers. In the last 17 games under Rafa we scored 27 goals. In the first 17 games under Bruce we scored 17 goals. We’ve gone back a year. Far less of an attacking threat now compared to the second half of last season. Not having two-thirds of the strikeforce from that period might also have something to do with it mind. Yeah he only spent £60million to replace them Can’t make excuses for someone with a front 3 that cost £80million being bottom for nearly every attacking stat going. He was not given £60 milion to replace them. He was given two players allegedly worth that to replace them. One of which who has, thus far, lived up to his price tag, and one which who has absolutely not. Clearly, we/Bruce, need to make massive improvements to our attacking play if we're going to improve in the long run, but let's not make out he came along, chucked away Rafa's attacking methods, and replaced them with his own. I think a huge percentage of managers would get more out of the forward players that he has. OK, but that's opinion, rather than fact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 We're basically a smash and grab team under Bruce. We were under Rafa as well tbf, but there was always the impression that he was trying to refine us and gradually get us playing more fluid football. With Bruce you get the feeling there's nothing else, he's just going to ride the wave of Rafa's defensive organisation for as long as he can. You mean like being the 4th highest scoring team in the league in the second half of last season? To now being the 3rd lowest scorers. In the last 17 games under Rafa we scored 27 goals. In the first 17 games under Bruce we scored 17 goals. We’ve gone back a year. Far less of an attacking threat now compared to the second half of last season. Not having two-thirds of the strikeforce from that period might also have something to do with it mind. Yeah he only spent £60million to replace them Can’t make excuses for someone with a front 3 that cost £80million being bottom for nearly every attacking stat going. He was not given £60 milion to replace them. He was given two players allegedly worth that to replace them. One of which who has, thus far, lived up to his price tag, and one which who has absolutely not. Clearly, we/Bruce, need to make massive improvements to our attacking play if we're going to improve in the long run, but let's not make out he came along, chucked away Rafa's attacking methods, and replaced them with his own. I think a huge percentage of managers would get more out of the forward players that he has. OK, but that's opinion, rather than fact. Do you agree that most manager would get more out of the forward players that he’s got? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samptime29 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 We're basically a smash and grab team under Bruce. We were under Rafa as well tbf, but there was always the impression that he was trying to refine us and gradually get us playing more fluid football. With Bruce you get the feeling there's nothing else, he's just going to ride the wave of Rafa's defensive organisation for as long as he can. You mean like being the 4th highest scoring team in the league in the second half of last season? To now being the 3rd lowest scorers. In the last 17 games under Rafa we scored 27 goals. In the first 17 games under Bruce we scored 17 goals. We’ve gone back a year. Far less of an attacking threat now compared to the second half of last season. Not having two-thirds of the strikeforce from that period might also have something to do with it mind. Yeah he only spent £60million to replace them Can’t make excuses for someone with a front 3 that cost £80million being bottom for nearly every attacking stat going. He was not given £60 milion to replace them. He was given two players allegedly worth that to replace them. One of which who has, thus far, lived up to his price tag, and one which who has absolutely not. Clearly, we/Bruce, need to make massive improvements to our attacking play if we're going to improve in the long run, but let's not make out he came along, chucked away Rafa's attacking methods, and replaced them with his own. I think a huge percentage of managers would get more out of the forward players that he has. We’ve got Steve Pulis as manager. His Birmingham side got relegated scoring only 28 goals all season. We scored 16 goals after first 21 games last season. We're on 18 goals after 18 games this season. Realistically you can't judge this season until the end of the season. We'll see where we are, and compare to the previous season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 We're basically a smash and grab team under Bruce. We were under Rafa as well tbf, but there was always the impression that he was trying to refine us and gradually get us playing more fluid football. With Bruce you get the feeling there's nothing else, he's just going to ride the wave of Rafa's defensive organisation for as long as he can. You mean like being the 4th highest scoring team in the league in the second half of last season? To now being the 3rd lowest scorers. In the last 17 games under Rafa we scored 27 goals. In the first 17 games under Bruce we scored 17 goals. We’ve gone back a year. Far less of an attacking threat now compared to the second half of last season. Not having two-thirds of the strikeforce from that period might also have something to do with it mind. Yeah he only spent £60million to replace them Can’t make excuses for someone with a front 3 that cost £80million being bottom for nearly every attacking stat going. He was not given £60 milion to replace them. He was given two players allegedly worth that to replace them. One of which who has, thus far, lived up to his price tag, and one which who has absolutely not. Clearly, we/Bruce, need to make massive improvements to our attacking play if we're going to improve in the long run, but let's not make out he came along, chucked away Rafa's attacking methods, and replaced them with his own. I think a huge percentage of managers would get more out of the forward players that he has. We’ve got Steve Pulis as manager. His Birmingham side got relegated scoring only 28 goals all season. We scored 16 goals after first 21 games last season. Oh when he had Atsu and Joselu starting every week Give Rafa this squad for a whole season and it finishes higher than Bruce and scores more goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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