mighty__mag Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 10 minutes ago, Jack27 said: We won't get ANY money for this bit though. You know, the thing we need to be able to manoeuvre in the transfer market. With accumulation of sales it could work out the same, plus deals can be done on larger contracts with payments spread. Amortisation type. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawalls Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 Just now, McCormick said: I mean, that’s my point. So Robert didn’t get “less love” at all, then. Not from me - I loved Robert but to be honest I think we need to sell ASM, nothing personal but if we need to evolve and all that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawalls Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 1 minute ago, gdm said: Just put isak on the left then Too many games next season - we only have 2 strikers to rotate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Gawalls said: Also everyone wants us to keep evolving and improving - getting better success etc but are so resistant to change. Not everyone is of the opinion Barnes is better than ASM. It’s nothing to do with resisting change. If it was Almiron or Murphy I’d be all for it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawalls Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 Just now, gdm said: Not everyone is of the opinion Barnes is better than ASM. It’s nothing to do with resisting change. If it was Almiron or Murphy I’d be all for it We won’t get anything for them - it’s been said thousands of times now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 1 minute ago, McCormick said: Really? Robert and Ginola are considered club icons and HBA, a cult hero. Of course you could argue he’s not on their level (although talent-wise there’s a faint argument that he could be) but would ASM get the same love after he left? No, because ASM didn’t do owt in any real terms. He’s a talented dribbler, but there his legacy ends. He definitely isn’t on their level talent-wise - the output isn’t there. Ginola and Robert were standout talents in the best NUFC sides most of us have seen. ASM - when fit - made watching Bruce’s sides not completely awful. Ginola and Robert were criticised heavily and regularly at the time. I’m not sure Robert would class as a club icon, either - he was a favourite of mine at the time, which led to most of my match-going mates taking the piss as most felt he was lazy and had a shit attitude. Personally, I just thought the lad had a wand of a left foot and even when he was out of form, his presence alone stretched teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack27 Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, mighty__mag said: With accumulation of sales it could work out the same, plus deals can be done on larger contracts with payments spread. Amortisation type. could is doing a lot of the heavy lifting there we haven't been able to do any of that in the last three transfer windows, what changed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 Just now, Gawalls said: We won’t get anything for them - it’s been said thousands of times now. Missed the point but ok Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawalls Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 1 minute ago, gdm said: Missed the point but ok Fair enough and I apologise for snapping, just sick of people throwing stupid names out and saying “let’s sell them instead” as if the owners and Howe haven’t thought of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 1 minute ago, Gawalls said: Fair enough and I apologise for snapping, just sick of people throwing stupid names out and saying “let’s sell them instead” as if the owners and Howe haven’t thought of that. Don’t need to apologise but the point I was making is personally and other people don’t think Barnes is a better or much of a better player than ASM so it’s not really about resisting change. If the upgrade made sense I’d be all in. Just my own personal opinion of the two players Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said: If we could offload the deadwood they would be gone already. Nope it doesn't always work like that, the deadwood type players will go further down the window and close to the deadline imo. As sides miss out on desired targets they look to others, Manquillo, Lascelles, Darlow, Lewis, Fraser, Hayden, Hendrick, These lot could easily be squad filters for promoted PL sides, or sides like Leicester, Southampton, or those looking for promotions. We managed to offload Shelvey and Chris Wood in a January window. I'd like to think Lascelles, Fraser, Darlow and Lewis could bring in 30m? Hell, Leicester could take Lascelles as part of a negotiation on Barnes? Lascelles could be great for them in the championship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, McCormick said: Really? Robert and Ginola are considered club icons and HBA, a cult hero. Of course you could argue he’s not on their level (although talent-wise there’s a faint argument that he could be) but would ASM get the same love after he left? Some people hero worship/ped ASM, not least because he was light in the dark. That was never the case for Robert. I'd say he was always beneath a few players in the pecking order - not just Shearer but Solano, Speed and Bellamy. Even Dyer, plus obviously Given, Woodgate and others. As Brown Bottle says, a solid portion of the crowd detested him, there was real anger, and not many tears shed when he left. Think history has been rewritten a bit over time. Overall, as I say, I think ASM has had a strikingly similar time with us as Robert, HBA and Ginola. Edited July 16, 2023 by 80 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 Off loading the deadwood will come. Probably on loan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveready Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 Would absolutely hate to sell him. The only glimmer of hope through the steaming pile of shite served up under Bruce and never seemed to openly want away even during that awful period. New manager comes in with a different philosophy, and instead of kicking up a fuss like a lot of flair players would, he clearly is trying his hardest to adapt to a new style, even to the extent that the longest period of him he was out last season was when he was busting his ass to get back to stop a counter. Despite being a player that takes a few games to reach match fitness and having a very disrupted season due to injuries he still had one of the best xA90 in league. Misses 3 league games the season before, 1 disjointed season and now he 'must' be sold. For all the talk of keeping players like Murphy around for loyalty, the lack of respect and loyalty our fans are showing to ASM - to put it politely - frustrates me a little. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, mighty__mag said: I'd like to think Lascelles, Fraser, Darlow and Lewis could bring in 30m? We won't get more than £5-10 million for the lot, and that's if we are lucky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Rich said: I don't feel anywhere near the same attachment to Maxi as plenty of others seem to, but I'd still be sad to see him go. Players like him are why people fall in love with the game. I just don’t understand the widespread assumption that he’s going. He’s been working hard to play the system, we have more games than ever, european games should suit him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Eveready said: Would absolutely hate to sell him. The only glimmer of hope through the steaming pile of shite served up under Bruce and never seemed to openly want away even during that awful period. New manager comes in with a different philosophy, and instead of kicking up a fuss like a lot of flair players would, he clearly is trying his hardest to adapt to a new style, even to the extent that the longest period of him he was out last season was when he was busting his ass to get back to stop a counter. Despite being a player that takes a few games to reach match fitness and having a very disrupted season due to injuries he still had one of the best xA90 in league. Misses 3 league games the season before, 1 disjointed season and now he 'must' be sold. For all the talk of keeping players like Murphy around for loyalty, the lack of respect and loyalty our fans are showing to ASM - to put it politely - frustrates me a little. I have zero sense of loyalty towards footballers. I haven’t since I hit puberty. The idea that they have to be kept out of a sense of loyalty isn’t sensible for me. Murphy also shouldn’t be kept out of a sense of ‘loyalty’, but rather because the management team feel that they want him to stay more than the value his sale would bring. That doesn’t mean people should give the lad two fingers as he goes, but some perspective is required. As for ‘xA’ and all that stuff, it just doesn’t register for me. Not getting ‘assists’ isn’t just about other players missing the chance - if he’s putting the ball in the same place every time, and every time nothing comes of it, that’s not smart play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 TalkSport are usually fairly accurate so there's probably something to it atleast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 1 minute ago, ponsaelius said: We won't get more than £5-10 million for the lot, and that's if we are lucky. Don't be daft. Look at the state of Forest last season, they'd literally pay anything for anyone, and the mad thing is,it actually payed off, they achieved their goal. For a side to be mad enough to pay Lingard 200k then offload, i think anything can happen now until September. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 14 minutes ago, mighty__mag said: I'd like to think Lascelles, Fraser, Darlow and Lewis could bring in 30m? Lascelles might get you £10-15m, but I’m not seeing fees at all for the others. You’d likely have to offload them for free and pay a % of their wages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 We lack left footed attackers so Miggy is pretty much untouchable imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Eveready said: New manager comes in with a different philosophy, and instead of kicking up a fuss like a lot of flair players would, he clearly is trying his hardest to adapt to a new style, even to the extent that the longest period of him he was out last season was when he was busting his ass to get back to stop a counter. To me, that's a key point, and sets him apart from a lot of 'those type' of classic flair players we've had in the past, in terms of how I think of him. He's clearly not really designed for it, but overall he's done his best to buy in and avoid rocking the boat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawalls Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 Just now, mighty__mag said: Don't be daft. Look at the state of Forest last season, they'd literally pay anything for anyone, and the mad thing is,it actually payed off, they achieved their goal. For a side to be mad enough to pay Lingard 200k then offload, i think anything can happen now until September. I agree with the £5m to £10m personally Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveready Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: I have zero sense of loyalty towards footballers. I haven’t since I hit puberty. The idea that they have to be kept out of a sense of loyalty isn’t sensible for me. Murphy also shouldn’t be kept out of a sense of ‘loyalty’, but rather because the management team feel that they want him to stay more than the value his sale would bring. That doesn’t mean people should give the lad two fingers as he goes, but some perspective is required. As for ‘xA’ and all that stuff, it just doesn’t register for me. Not getting ‘assists’ isn’t just about other players missing the chance - if he’s putting the ball in the same place every time, and every time nothing comes of it, that’s not smart play. Can understand it to some extent due to things like Carroll leaving but I also can't understand how someone can really enjoy football without having any affection or loyalty towards the players you watch week in week out. xA is based on the xG of the shot taker, which is absolutely a statistically solid metric. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyc35i Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 I don’t want him sold as I love the guy. Plus the undeniable uniqueness of his talent is an important point of differentiation to the squad. But a £50m offer from Saudi means we have to sell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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