Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Fenerbahce, on loan from Al-Ahli)

[TRon]

That goal that Watford scored, no way could you do that if ASM was involved. One touch passing? I think he'd rather chop his own leg off. 

[Lush Vlad]

3 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

FWIW I think ASM has the potential to adapt his game still, he’s fairly young.
 

He spent his newcastle career being specifically told to do everything on his own. 

 

Not saying I disagree.  But if he is genuinely always as knackered as he is making out, whether that is various knocks or just being out of puff.  Then he is going to need a lot of fitness work and it's also hard to stop him being injury prone.  If it's that he is just sulking and being a lazy fucker.  Then he'd need a personality transplant.  Truth as always, is probably somewhere in-between.  

 

It's not even meant as a dig at him.  Flair players like him are not going to have the same mindset and physical attributes as someone like Isaac Hayden or Paul Dummet, for example.  Nor would I want them to.  

 

I suppose the $100m (or whatever relegation costs these days) question is.  What do you do to get the best out of ASM?  As he is currently the only match winner in our squad.  We'd be worse off without him this season and at times, he is just completely unplayable for the opposition.  But then he often looks totally uninterested, his decision making is usually awful and the current system just isn't getting the best out of him.  Then when we play with a midfield 4, he looks just as bad and stroppy.  He wants to play centrally, but has never excelled there.  

 

Feels like when he has space on the counter, or because our team are capable of creating space for him.  He is incredibly good.  This current slow motion passing game and inability to open teams up, isn't really helping him and he's not really helping the team.

[greydos]

 

2 hours ago, Wullie said:

Any time we have any sort of player with immense mercurial talent, going back to Ginola (and possibly beyond) there's a weird subsection of our support that insists they don't work hard enough and should be bombed out in favour of someone who'll track back a bit. Spent far too much of my youth arguing with boring arseholes who wanted Laurent Robert binned off in favour of a mythical player who would definitely get as many goals and assists but also work like a dog at all times and be easily affordable for Newcastle United.

 

In conclusion, yes we should definitely bench our best player and rely on Ryan Fraser instead. FFS.

You’re absolutely right. It’s like those England cricket fans who loved Kevin Pietersen’s centuries in India or against the Aussies but used to cry that he’s not a team player because he dared try hit a spinner for 6 (usually when on 90-odd, so he’d already contributed). 
 

ASM is about the only good thing we have got (with Trippier). Of course he’s got to dribble on half way, how else will we get our slow, no mobility pass-shy team up the pitch? Hoof it to Wood and see if it’ll stick, with no-one having legs in and around him?

 

This team has fundamental issues. All the best teams have players who can rotate positions or be dynamic. In the 2000s under SBR we had Dyer, a central midfielder who could break position to run behind the last man onto one of Nobby’s through balls. He could do it as he had the legs to get back in position and he could trust the whole team to keep a highish line and slow play down til he could get back.
 

This team has nobody who is dynamic and can exploit other areas of the pitch from their starting position. That’s the noticeable thing about Ryan Fraser. His Bournemouth play showed him interchanging with Wilson, getting in behind the last man and running the shoulder of the CB in the half space. He clearly hasn’t got the legs to do that now. Nobody in midfield has the legs or ability to move up the pitch quickly (Willock did it a bit last year).

 

If we kept drawing 0-0 because we couldn’t score I’d accept some complaint about ASM. The fact is, you can fix 142 problems with this newcastle team, and only *then* would you need to fix ASM. 

[Lush Vlad]

2 hours ago, Disco said:

 

Fraser has lost a yard of pace massively from when he was at Bournemouth it looks like to me and he was never a beat a man with a trick type player. 

 

Yep.  Love his work off the ball.  But then Almiron also brings that, without doing anything on it and he isn't in the team at the minute.  Rightfully so, I'd say.   

 

I know the fans views on him are a bit marmite.  But I'd play Murphy, purely for the fact he has pace, looks to drive with the ball and will attempt the odd shot and cross.  Which are usually either Solano/Shearer in quality or as bad as Obertan/Riviere.  No in-between. 

[alexf]

41 minutes ago, TRon said:

That goal that Watford scored, no way could you do that if ASM was involved. One touch passing? I think he'd rather chop his own leg off. 

ASM has had plenty of decent assists in his time here. Especially to Wilson with good first time passes. ASM is not a problem. We just need more options going forward to not rely on his individual talents. 

[mofo]

2 hours ago, Wullie said:

Any time we have any sort of player with immense mercurial talent, going back to Ginola (and possibly beyond) there's a weird subsection of our support that insists they don't work hard enough and should be bombed out in favour of someone who'll track back a bit. Spent far too much of my youth arguing with boring arseholes who wanted Laurent Robert binned off in favour of a mythical player who would definitely get as many goals and assists but also work like a dog at all times and be easily affordable for Newcastle United.

 

In conclusion, yes we should definitely bench our best player and rely on Ryan Fraser instead. FFS.

Some of the shit he got from the crowd on Saturday was ridiculous.. The amount of time's I heard 'Just pass the fucking ball'!! Same as when he tried to beat a man and it didn't come off... 

In my opinion we are a better team when ASM is in it, simple as that.

[Lush Vlad]

2 hours ago, Fantail Breeze said:

I don’t get why people insist in football you are either one or another with opinions.

 

It's not just football.  Nuance and proper, polite debate seems dead on the internet and in a lot of society these days.  Seems like it's got worse since Covid and the current state of the UK government, for example. 

[Weezertron]

I like Murphy. He's direct, always tries to get the ball in the box and can actually put his foot through a ball. I was hopeful when he came on that someone would finally try to provide service to wood but I think we had gone off the boil by that point. 

 

 

[LRD]

If we take ASM out, who's going to score the goals?

[TRon]

13 minutes ago, Weezertron said:

I like Murphy. He's direct, always tries to get the ball in the box and can actually put his foot through a ball. I was hopeful when he came on that someone would finally try to provide service to wood but I think we had gone off the boil by that point. 

 

 

 

He's got all the tools, he should be much better than he is. Even with that great right foot, if he's through on goal, more than likely he's going to miss it. He seems to have a good game, you think he's finally cracked it, and then he'll have stinker in the next one. 

[Dr Jinx]

He's obviously still capable of moments of brilliance but he rides his luck, losing the ball in the middle of the field has led to far too many scoring opportunities for whoever we're playing.

 

As is the case with most of the team, he's hobbling around the pitch from about 70 minutes and looks like he's running on fumes.

 

If we were in a position to, i'd rest him for a few games, work on his fitness and conditioning as he's one of the very few that will be in the team after we upgrade it.

 

It's been killing us all season, since the first game against West Ham, they overran us in the last 25 minutes and we've barely improved. Like what the fuck did Steve Bruce have them doing in the pre season?

[Guest HTT II]

He’s an explosive player in terms of his pace, running and twisting and turning, and that’s just his body, never mind what’s in his head at the same time, he will pagger himself out playing like that, he needs to calm down and learn to use his energy more efficiently and you do that by playing a few simple balls and moving into space rather than running with the ball frenetically all the time. I think he stays down because that’s his way of getting his breath back which would work if your 15 or something playing in a youth tea,, but he’s a professional and should know the best way is to relax and just play a sensible game here and there and not over do things. Ronaldo learned that and look at what that did for his game…

[TRon]

34 minutes ago, alexf said:

ASM has had plenty of decent assists in his time here. Especially to Wilson with good first time passes. ASM is not a problem. We just need more options going forward to not rely on his individual talents. 

 

Agree, he's going to stay in the side at the moment because we don't have anyone else who is anywhere near as good, but what makes him good is also what makes him a problem. I can guarantee you none of the big clubs will buy him. Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, they don't have ball hoggers in their team for a reason. he whole is greater than the individual parts. 

[Consortium of one]

Under Bruce, who had no tactical noir, the plan was to simply get the ball to ASM and let him find a way to get a shot or a little chip that Wilson could finish.  So naturally that's the only way he can now operate.   His off the ball movement around the box is nil.  No one plays a through to run onto and there is no midfield creator to unlock the defense in any way shape or form.  At least now we have a threat to head on goal or knock down a cross with Wood but we still sorely lack finishing in those situations.

[triggs]

On the conditioning problem it is a serious issue but I'm not sure it's his fault completely. His style and body type is unlike almost any other footballer out there and I can't think of any player that makes as many explosive sprints in a game as him

[Bompeter]

3 hours ago, TRon said:

That goal that Watford scored, no way could you do that if ASM was involved. One touch passing? I think he'd rather chop his own leg off. 

This is a good example of ASM-derangement syndrome.

 

Saint Maximin picked out as the reason we can’t score good team goals - not that he’d be relying Dummett or Longstaff or Joelinton or whoever to not fuck up at a critical moment. 
 

DERANGED 

[TRon]

3 minutes ago, Bompeter said:

This is a good example of ASM-derangement syndrome.

 

Saint Maximin picked out as the reason we can’t score good team goals - not that he’d be relying Dummett or Longstaff or Joelinton or whoever to not fuck up at a critical moment. 
 

DERANGED 

 

Just because they are shit, doesn't negate my argument though. The best teams don't win stuff by using players who try to dribble through the opposition single-handely. Maybe he'll change once we get better players in, who know? I doubt it though. 

[Happinesstan]

6 hours ago, Andy said:

Hmm. Think he looks poor a lot of the time because teams know we have literally no other outlet and can just double or even treble up on him. His end product is very hit and miss but he's capable of creating chances out of nothing, which we're completely reliant on at the moment. I'd be very hesitant to drop him, and that's not even taking into account how dire the alternative options are.

 

 

Which is when he needs to adapt his game. Quick pass to a team mate should be his first thought in those situations.

[Palestoon]

Until we have a team that is actually capable of creating chances through actual build up, incisive passing and good movement, discussing the merits of ASM is absolutely pointless. For anyone to think replacing him with murphy or almiron would make us more capable of scoring a goal is laughable. Take ASM out of the team, and we turn towards pinging the ball up to wood/wilson and hoping for the best. this team is not capable of anything more than that. 

 

He deserves criticism for some aspects of his game, but unless we have a miraculous next 2 weeks of the transfer window, he is far and away our best chance at staying up.

[Guest Biggsbond14]

4 hours ago, Palestoon said:

Until we have a team that is actually capable of creating chances through actual build up, incisive passing and good movement, discussing the merits of ASM is absolutely pointless. For anyone to think replacing him with murphy or almiron would make us more capable of scoring a goal is laughable. Take ASM out of the team, and we turn towards pinging the ball up to wood/wilson and hoping for the best. this team is not capable of anything more than that. 

 

He deserves criticism for some aspects of his game, but unless we have a miraculous next 2 weeks of the transfer window, he is far and away our best chance at staying up.

Out of interest I wonder what our results have been like without him involved with the team when injured? 

[Palestoon]

 

4 hours ago, Biggsbond14 said:

Out of interest I wonder what our results have been like without him involved with the team when injured? 

Found this from last year. doesn't include this season, but i doubt it changed much.

 

OVERALL TOTALS AT NUFC WITH ASM STARTING:

Played 26 Won 12 Drawn 6 Lost 8 Points 42 Goals For 34 Goals Against 31

OVERALL TOTALS AT NUFC WITHOUT ASM STARTING:

Played 16 Won 1 Drawn 6 Lost 9 Points 9 Goals For 10 Goals Against 32

[HaydnNUFC]

Damning. It's not just his ability when he's 100% on it that helps us in games, but the opposition keep 1 or 2 men further back than usual to mark him and when he has the ball they double up or even triple up on him. That's also partly because they know the rest of our side is nigh on incapable of threatening them, but it helps us defensively too as sides are always wary of him in the case of a turnover. Probably being overly harsh but we took him off on 86 minutes on Saturday. Watford scored on 88 minutes down the side that he was playing on.

[Guest Biggsbond14]

14 hours ago, Palestoon said:

 

Found this from last year. doesn't include this season, but i doubt it changed much.

 

OVERALL TOTALS AT NUFC WITH ASM STARTING:

Played 26 Won 12 Drawn 6 Lost 8 Points 42 Goals For 34 Goals Against 31

OVERALL TOTALS AT NUFC WITHOUT ASM STARTING:

Played 16 Won 1 Drawn 6 Lost 9 Points 9 Goals For 10 Goals Against 32

Wow didn’t realise how effective he is and it’s troubling how much stick he gets but I’m guessing it’s more frustrating on our part thinking he can be so much better 

[Dr Venkman]

Just a had a quick check how many points we would have without his goals this season: 7.

[Guest]

That’s only 5 points fewer than we have in total tbf.