Toonjam88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 9 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said: He's quite clearly a very effective player in the final 3rd: If we are using that then look at Tonalis and he is shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said: If he is that good why is Real Madrid, Manchester City, Barcelona, even bloody Chelsea after him? I am not saying he isn’t good he is but the way some people go on here and in the fan base you would think he was bloody Messi Nobody is saying he's like Messi All I've pointed out is the facts of his stats. If you want reject reality and spout things nobody is saying you crack on bud. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Here is another stat site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, hakka said: Nobody is saying he's like Messi All I've pointed out is the facts of his stats. If you want reject reality and spout things nobody is saying you crack on bud. And if you read what I said I didn’t say people were calling him Messi I said they way people go on about him you would think he was Messi so you crack on bud. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 12.38 full games minutes wise over an entire season and you want to keep him? My god. The guy misses huge chunks of the season, every season. You’d happily put up with an injury prone player, instead of selling him, and helping the club overcome its FFP restrictions, while in the process bringing in top quality talent? Talk about holding the club back. The club wants to progress and go the next level, but some fans are just happy settling for mediocrity, and being all sentimental over one magical game every three months. Strange. Edited July 5, 2023 by Toon88 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said: He's quite clearly a very effective player in the final 3rd: Seeing a lot of these charts recently, do you know if the percentile is versus other NUFC players? Other PL players? Same position? Edited July 5, 2023 by Interpolic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J7 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 People are going to have to get used to the fact that we will need to sell players (some who may even be popular) who are actually worth something if we want to progress. I love him and he's unplayable on his day, but he's injury prone and inconsistent. If we can get £30m plus for him we should be selling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRaspberryJam Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, JJ7 said: People are going to have to get used to the fact that we will need to sell players (some who may even be popular) who are actually worth something if we want to progress. I love him and he's unplayable on his day, but he's injury prone and inconsistent. If we can get £30m plus for him we should be selling. we want slapping if we’re willing to accept at least 30m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Toon88 said: 12.38 full games minutes wise over an entire season and you want to keep him? My god. The guy misses huge chunks of the season, every season. You’d happily put up with an injury prone player, instead of selling him, and helping the club overcome its FFP restrictions, while in the process bringing in top quality talent? Talk about holding the club back. The club wants to progress and go the next level, but some fans are just happy settling for mediocrity, and being all sentimental over one magical game every three months. Strange. I'd prefer to keep ASM for one more season to see if he can have one where he is less injured, more fit and with more games to play be used more and potentially have one of his better, if not best seasons with us. Wanting that is not holding the club back I agree you can say his injury record is a concern and how long his contract is left his value will drop in a year. I will challenge the notion that he isn't a quality player with good end product and outcomes, because his stats per 90 mins are undeniable. Selling him won't generate money to buy anything more than replacing his quality is my view, but others may feel you could land a different position and use someone else to cover ASM position. That's fine, I just prefer to give him an extra year and see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, JJ7 said: People are going to have to get used to the fact that we will need to sell players (some who may even be popular) who are actually worth something if we want to progress. I love him and he's unplayable on his day, but he's injury prone and inconsistent. If we can get £30m plus for him we should be selling. Yep. I don't want to sell him either, but Ashworth has already said to be successful we will have to get to a position where we can trade players and generate income. If anyone doubts it, then just look at how Chelsea and Liverpool have gone from being on the verge or FFP restrictions to generating massive revenues by selling to Saudi. It's sickening we are having to play catch up, but the way FFP is structured we'll never do it unless we are creative in the market, and that includes selling popular players if the numbers make sense. I dare say we would sell Callum Wilson as well if a decent bid came in, and he scored 17 goals last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 27 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said: 2 of those assists were against City the one game which he played like everyone seems to think he plays on a regular basis. So they don’t count? It’s hilarious that he is comparing him to the absolute elite of the position and is using apps and not minutes. If we really want to sell someone I would rather try to get 10-15m for Murphy or 20m for Almiron than 30-35m for ASM. If ASM has a good season he’s worth at least 50m, we’ll never get more for Murphy or Almiron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Pata said: So they don’t count? It’s hilarious that he is comparing him to the absolute elite of the position and is using apps and not minutes. If we really want to sell someone I would rather try to get 10-15m for Murphy or 20m for Almiron than 30-35m for ASM. If ASM has a good season he’s worth at least 50m, we’ll never get more for Murphy or Almiron. We'd sell both if we got those sort of offers IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 25 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said: If he is that good why is Real Madrid, Manchester City, Barcelona, even bloody Chelsea after him? I am not saying he isn’t good he is but the way some people go on here and in the fan base you would think he was bloody Messi Why aren’t they after Bruno, Isak, Joelinton or Botman then? Every team in the world knows where are not sellers, your point doesn’t make any sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Pata said: So they don’t count? It’s hilarious that he is comparing him to the absolute elite of the position and is using apps and not minutes. If we really want to sell someone I would rather try to get 10-15m for Murphy or 20m for Almiron than 30-35m for ASM. If ASM has a good season he’s worth at least 50m, we’ll never get more for Murphy or Almiron. Well Howe seems to rate Murphy and Almiron higher than ASM unless you think he is wrong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Pata said: Why aren’t they after Bruno, Isak, Joelinton or Botman then? Every team in the world knows where are not sellers, your point doesn’t make any sense. They were literally linked with Bruno at the beginning of the window and they are the first on the team sheet. Even when ASM is fully fit he isn’t the first in the team sheet so unless everyone thinks Howe is wrong then he he is our most saleable assist who isn’t a guaranteed first team player simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveready Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 His stock is low as it's ever been due to injuries and despite being a player who needs a few games to regain match fitness, his G/A contribution per 90 was still one of the best in the team last year. Even with the short term impact on FFP, I cannot understand how people would be happy to accept £30-35m for him when it would cost easily double that to replace him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said: Well Howe seems to rate Murphy and Almiron higher than ASM unless you think he is wrong? ASM has started pretty much every game under Howe when fully fit. And no need to point out he had many injuries last season, he had but it was also pretty much his worst season injury-wise in his career. Edited July 5, 2023 by Pata Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Toonjam88 said: They were literally linked with Bruno at the beginning of the window and they are the first on the team sheet. Even when ASM is fully fit he isn’t the first in the team sheet so unless everyone thinks Howe is wrong then he he is our most saleable assist who isn’t a guaranteed first team player simple. Oh the player trade where we were paying something in addition to giving away Bruno? Seemed a legit link. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, Pata said: ASM has started pretty much every game under Howe when fully fit. And no need to point out he had many injuries last season, he had but it was also pretty much his worst season injury-wise in his career. No he didn’t. Started 12 games this season and was subbed on 13 games. Or are you proving everyone’s point by the fact he was only fully fit 12 games throughout the whole season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, Pata said: Oh the player trade where we were paying something in addition to giving away Bruno? Seemed a legit link. That was a stupid link there were more links than that including one to Liverpool. But you’re just ignoring the fact the players you used as an example are the first ones on the team sheet so that’s why they aren’t after them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 8 minutes ago, Pata said: ASM has started pretty much every game under Howe when fully fit. And no need to point out he had many injuries last season, he had but it was also pretty much his worst season injury-wise in his career. You just edited that after my post ??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Anyway good debate everyone has there own opinions that’s what this forum is all about ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stottie Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 With Maxi, you have to remember he had two seasons bailing out a clueless c*nt of a manager playing "hit it to Maxi" ball. That's a lot to unlearn. I said it on another thread but the main issue is his xG, basically him not getting into goalscoring positions. Thanks to the wonders of stats, we can rank him against other players in the team for expected goals per shot. He is easily the worst of all our attacking players. He's shooting on average from positions where a statistically average player will score only 1 in 16. Even Bruno, who shoots from farther out, is 1 is 10. Under Howe in 22/23, Maxi's chance creation for others was top notch and he's young enough to suggest there still could be a player in there, though maybe not as a first choice in a "intensity is our identity" setup. For us to carry him with his limited defensive contribution, he's going have to start scoring more. Miggy did it as a player who's older, so I wouldn't completely rule it out just yet. The financial stuff is beyond me, but if it makes sense to sell him, so be it. I think of all of our players as replaceable, especially now with the recruitment team we have. Clinging to what we have in already is Ashley-era thinking that we don't need to do any more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 ASM played less minutes than Kieran Tierney last season (that player nobody wants us to sign because of his injury record). Should pair them together and try to get half a season out of both of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said: You just edited that after my post ??? Fixed ”he’s” to ”his”, whatever man. ????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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