Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Fenerbahce, on loan from Al-Ahli)

[RobsonsWonderland]

Would the majority of us be excited if we were signing him today... probably yes.

 

Did he have a bad season due to fitness, ability or fitting in the team dynamic... Probably two out of three.

 

Did his fitness coincide with a team on a massive winning streak.. yes.

 

And I think the latter impacted him more than anything as he went from starter to a squad player,  a fans favourite to a boo boy.

 

Same happened to Ginola, Robert and Ben Arfa.. once the manager didn't trust them their faults appeared. (Maybe more to do with the difference in managers )

 

 

 

 

[STM]

3 minutes ago, GEFAFWISP said:

Yes, but it doesn't scream ruthlessness and a desire to compete with Man City by keeping a League One talent around for an injury crisis. Which was my point, if we're being ruthless we've got a lot of chaff to shift first before ASM.

Scott Carson says hi.

 

It might be amazing for you to learn but some players are more sellable than others...

 

I'm sure there's some kid on a Dortmund forum going crackers about selling Bellingham for 110m before some shite on their bench that never gets a game.

 

It seems an odd criticism of our ownership that they aren't getting rid of the shite quick enough considering the transformation of our squad.

[hakka]

16 minutes ago, STM said:

I was going to leave it... but I can't help myself.

 

Why is any criticism turned into "oh you think he's a lazy French cunt"?

 

My view of Maxi is that once you get him fit (rare) then up to speed (takes half a dozen games) he's absolutely electric, terrifying for defenders and absolute asset to the side but how long should I wait for that?

 

It's easy to say well "he's started x games" or had "x amount of appearances" or "he's been available for x amount and wasn't played" but even in the times he was on the pitch he was either knackered, hobbling about, returning from injury or my favourite "doesn't suit being a substitute" .

 

I mean, what am I waiting for? someone to turn up with a magic wand and produce a Maxi that is a) fit b) injury free c) stays that way for 20+ games?

 

Let's call a spade a spade, as much as we would like it to happen, it won't. He will always be the mercurial winger who gives you amazing moments and fond memories but he's never going to be reliable.

 

I haven't even touched onto his place in our set up, which at best is questionable. Is he even first choice anymore? Does the team have to accommodate him? Does he press enough for Howe? Does he track back enough? 

 

Then there is his contract situation, rumour has it he wants a pay rise, on what basis? Because it can't be contribution to the team? Do the club want to do that?

 

40m for someone without many question marks over his head is a no brainer. As far I'm aware, taking in that amount of money would help our FFP situation out alot. 

 

(To bit in bold) It hasn't. Although some did say he has "no end product" and a "bad attitude". Those bits were challenged, but arguments about his injury record or resale value in a year are fair game. Some want to sell now and invest, others want to give him another season to see how he goes.

[GEFAFWISP]

1 minute ago, STM said:

Scott Carson says hi.

 

It might be amazing for you to learn but some players are more sellable than others...

 

I'm sure there's some kid on a Dortmund forum going crackers about selling Bellingham for 110m before some shite on their bench that never gets a game.

 

It seems an odd criticism of our ownership that they aren't getting rid of the shite quick enough considering the transformation of our squad.

No need to be a condescending prick mate.

 

Also I didn't criticise anything, I suggested that, in response to a comment about being business savvy and ruthless in getting rid of ASM, we might want to instead focus on removing some of the dead weight leftover from pre-takeover.

 

Just weird response all round really.

[STM]

Just now, hakka said:

 

(To bit in bold) It hasn't. Although some did say he has "no end product" and a "bad attitude". Those bits were challenged, but arguments about his injury record or resale value in a year are fair game. Some want to sell now and invest, others want to give him another season to see how he goes.

 

Honest to God. The idea of a fully fit and firing Maxi in our line up is mouth watering and I hope I'm proved wrong.

[STM]

1 minute ago, GEFAFWISP said:

No need to be a condescending prick mate.

 

Also I didn't criticise anything, I suggested that, in response to a comment about being business savvy and ruthless in getting rid of ASM, we might want to instead focus on removing some of the dead weight leftover from pre-takeover.

 

Just weird response all round really.

 

Sorry for the condescension. Genuinely.

 

It's harder to shift shite players, simple as that really. Dummett has hie uses, none of which will be on a football pitch, aside an early FA/league cup match.

[Pata]

14 minutes ago, STM said:

I was going to leave it... but I can't help myself.

 

Why is any criticism turned into "oh you think he's a lazy French cunt"?

 

My view of Maxi is that once you get him fit (rare) then up to speed (takes half a dozen games) he's absolutely electric, terrifying for defenders and absolute asset to the side but how long should I wait for that?

 

It's easy to say well "he's started x games" or had "x amount of appearances" or "he's been available for x amount and wasn't played" but even in the times he was on the pitch he was either knackered, hobbling about, returning from injury or my favourite "doesn't suit being a substitute" .

 

I mean, what am I waiting for? someone to turn up with a magic wand and produce a Maxi that is a) fit b) injury free c) stays that way for 20+ games?

 

Let's call a spade a spade, as much as we would like it to happen, it won't. He will always be the mercurial winger who gives you amazing moments and fond memories but he's never going to be reliable.

 

I haven't even touched onto his place in our set up, which at best is questionable. Is he even first choice anymore? Does the team have to accommodate him? Does he press enough for Howe? Does he track back enough? 

 

Then there is his contract situation, rumour has it he wants a pay rise, on what basis? Because it can't be contribution to the team? Do the club want to do that?

 

40m for someone without many question marks over his head is a no brainer. As far I'm aware, taking in that amount of money would help our FFP situation out alot. 

I don’t think anyone thinks he’s perfect but he has so much more potential than pretty much any other winger in the squad. I’m all for selling him if he has another season in a row where he can’t stay fit but selling him now when we are still relying on players like Almiron and Murphy would be way too hasty and just creating another hole. I don’t see any reason why we wouldn’t get 30m for him in 12 months either if we needed to sell him then.

Rumours of pay rises are just logical for everyone in the squad, we are paying midtable wages to a CL team now.
 

I haven’t seen any evidence that Howe doesn’t like him or him not fitting into Howe’s system despite it being seemingly declared a fact in this thread by many. He has started him a lot when he’s been fully fit and trusted him in the League Cup final too.

 

I honestly think it’s weird that it’s only him that some people fantasise about selling when the squad has players whose talent/potential, form and age would mean selling them would make way more sense.

[STM]

1 minute ago, Pata said:

I don’t think anyone thinks he’s perfect but he has so much more potential than pretty much any other winger in the squad. I’m all for selling him if he has another season in a row where he can’t stay fit but selling him now when we are still relying on players like Almiron and Murphy would be way too hasty and just creating another hole. I don’t see any reason why we wouldn’t get 30m for him in 12 months either if we needed to sell him then.

Rumours of pay rises are just logical for everyone in the squad, we are paying midtable wages to a CL team now.
 

I haven’t seen any evidence that Howe doesn’t like him or him not fitting into Howe’s system despite it being seemingly declared a fact in this thread by many. He has started him a lot when he’s been fully fit and trusted him in the League Cup final too.

 

I honestly think it’s weird that it’s only him that some people fantasise about selling when the squad has players whose talent/potential, form and age would mean selling them would make way more sense.

 

Some fair points, I'd definitely argue that he's right in the middle of the Venn diagram for getting a good price but also being expendable.

 

Let's take our other two, Murphy and Miggy....

 

We might get 30m, top end, for Miggy (probably more like 25) but we'd lose our first choice RW, a player who will happily play a squad role, someone who fits into the system seamlessly and has a decent fitness record. In truth, I'd certainly be tempted by selling Miggy provided we get another top RW.

 

Then Murphy, top end, 20m? (From someone like Forest?) But more likely 16m. The reality is that I don't rate Murphy highly as a player at all but we would never replace him for that money. He's as happy as Larry playing a squad role for us. 12 months time, he might have a different view. 

 

[HaydnNUFC]

Had a flick through this thread again and these posts articulate how I feel about ASM far better than I could word on my own. (cheers lads  @St. Maximin @Kid Icarus @LFEE)

 

On 03/04/2023 at 23:58, St. Maximin said:

I think we’ve possibly been overanalysing things too much in thinking about whether he suits Howe’s style etc. He absolutely does, but he’s been dealing with a combination of injuries, confidence issues and increased competition for places.
 

In previous years he could play like yesterday and be the best player on the pitch and that would just be seen as a typical ASM performance. Nowadays we probably shouldn’t be expecting him to be that guy, but to be an effective winger among multiple strong attacking players, even when he’s indirectly making things happen rather than scoring wonder goals. 

 

On 04/04/2023 at 13:15, Kid Icarus said:

 

Yeah, I’ve seen it plenty on here and elsewhere online. Some people seem to have a preference for sounding clueless over ever giving him credit.

 

I was watching All With Smiling Faces earlier and Chris, who’s normally the most level-headed on there said that he completely lost his shit with the people around him at SJP on Sunday who were constantly slagging ASM off, even to the extent of blaming him for Burn not passing him the ball and then losing it

 

Anyone watching his performance on Sunday and slagging him when he’s got an assist, created at least 3 other situations that should have been assists, and beat their full back all game, really stretches the concept of everyone being entitled to their opinion to the limit like. I’d say it’s not even really their opinion – they’re either not watching or have an agenda.

 

As Dekka on the podcast said though, we’ve had this for years, whether it’s ASM, Ben Arfa, Robert, Ginola – any player with a bit of skill seems to invite the ire of a section of our fans and it doesn’t matter how good they are, how good their end product is, how often they do the things they claim they don’t (in ASM’s case tracking back and pressing) they’ll never give them credit and would prefer to have a grafter who produces nothing.

 

Obviously that doesn’t mean all criticism of ASM is unfair, in case it’s misunderstood as that by anyone reading.

 

On 28/04/2023 at 16:03, LFEE said:

I find a lot of people’s attitudes about ASM a bit odd. So thought I’d try and Mansplane it

 

He’s got a rare talent. A match winner.

He’s under contract and isn’t on a big wage.

He’s liked by the management and players.

Off the pitch he’s done nothing but shown generosity to the people of the area.

He’s showing a great attitude in trying to fit into a new system this season and was devastating and probably our best player until his first injury.

Every time he’s returned from injury and got up to speed he’s looked one of our most creative players.

With a bit of luck we will need a bigger squad playing 3 games a season with plenty of rotation and ability to carry injuries at certain parts of the season.

Going forward if we want to extend his contract he’d comfortably fit into our wage structure.

We don’t need the transfer fee he’d command and replacing him would cost way more.

 

…Yet still at the nearest whiff of unavailability people want him sold

 

(PS We have lost 6 times this season and he’s played only 230mins out of a possible 540mins not being involved in 3 of them and arguably our MOTM in two of them) 

 

(PPS It’s noticeable in the games we’ve failed to score he’s usually not been available either)

 

[Kanji]

2 hours ago, Toon88 said:

 
But that’s probably what the club are trying to do, are they not? That’s the whole reason we’ve signed Isak, Bruno & Botman. The club are trying to progress, and get to the next level. Selling ASM gives them the opportunity to sign that elite winger, and in the process helps to alleviate the pressures of FFP. This notion too, that we have to spend £70m on a replacement, is nonsense. Barnes would be £40m, Lundstrom £35m etc. Could even do a Brighton and unearth a rough diamond for even less money.
 

It’s just mind boggling not to back such ambition from the club, instead settle for mediocrity, and continue to deal with an injury prone player, who you only see for 1/3 of a season.

 

If people are happy with that, then so be it. But if you want to get to the level of Man City, then you need to drastically alter your mindset, and become business savvy, and above all else, ruthless. 
 

 

 

 

 

Selling Maxi only makes sense if you do what @ponsaelius refers in the post below yours. Otherwise it doesn't. But removing Maxi from the team better mean we're signing some real class players to play left or right wing.

[samptime29]

Can tell it's the off season ? 

[BeloEmre]

 

[LFEE]

 

[HawK]

Without that back pat, there's nothing.

[TheBrownBottle]

On 06/07/2023 at 00:20, GEFAFWISP said:

Yes, but it doesn't scream ruthlessness and a desire to compete with Man City by keeping a League One talent around for an injury crisis. Which was my point, if we're being ruthless we've got a lot of chaff to shift first before ASM.

FFP is why players like ASM may be moved on sooner than we’d like.  And we aren’t likely to be competing with Man City for a while yet.

[McDog]

19 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

FFP is why players like ASM may be moved on sooner than we’d like.  And we aren’t likely to be competing with Man City for a while yet.

 

Nobody is yet.

[TheBrownBottle]

29 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

Nobody is yet.

Probably best that some of our support gets that into their heads.  People talking about competing with Man City are crackers

[JP]

Instagram story just now is him scoring a worldie in training with 'people can keep talking when they know nothing, i just keep working'

 

[gdm]

10 minutes ago, JP said:

Instagram story just now is him scoring a worldie in training with 'people can keep talking when they know nothing, i just keep working'

 

 

[HaydnNUFC]

Should've just captioned it "Luke Edwards chats shite" imo.

[jack j]

Don't reckon he wants to leave us meself

Hopefully be hungrier than ever to succeed and we'll all be laughing

[Kanji]

I don't even believe Howe wants to sell him 

[Guest]

Maxi should ignore the talk and work on his cheese string leg muscles 

[wyn davies]

Love maxi, but how many of the dross we need to sell to achieve his potential transfer fee, and can we move them on .If we can get rid, keep him but needs must sometimes.

[OverThere]

Maxi must read social media. Bad idea. I think he stays given the replacement cost would be astronomical.