Other games (2021/22)

[Kaizero]

4 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

You also need to factor in he has the second most expensive squad in the league at his disposal and has won less trophies than both previous managers.

OGS has done better than a lot, including myself expected. I just think there's been little to suggest he can turn them into a side that consistently challenges for major honours.

Can you exemplify, though? "He's not a top tier manager", okay, explain to me what a top tier manager is and what the requirement should be to manage Man Utd.

[Guest]

Allardyce had a better record at Everton than Ancelotti and Bruce has a similar record 'on paper' to Benitez. I think everyone knows the truth, though?

[Kaizero]

Just now, Joey Linton said:

The other clubs in the top six will be hoping they stick with him. No bigger judgement of his ability than that. 

This is, again, opinion. No other club has said they are saying they hope they stick with him. The guy just finished ahead of 18 of the clubs. There's very little animosity or negative talk regarding OGS at Man Utd outside England, where there's a lot.

[Kaizero]

3 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Allardyce had a better record at Everton than Ancelotti and Bruce has a similar record 'on paper' to Benitez. I think everyone knows the truth, though?

Where are the Man Utd fans wanting him out, then? You can counter that argument with everyone outside NUFC saying we should be happy with Bruce, surely we know better than the outsiders what is best for our club? If the Man Utd fans are happy, that means they are seeing things they like that are going in a direction they like. Otherwise they'd hound him out. 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Kaizero

[Joey Linton]

1 minute ago, Kaizero said:

This is, again, opinion. No other club has said they are saying they hope they stick with him. The guy just finished ahead of 18 of the clubs. There's very little animosity or negative talk regarding OGS at Man Utd outside England, where there's a lot.

Well i don't suppose the majority of La Liga or Serie A care, lets be honest.

[Kaizero]

1 minute ago, Joey Linton said:

Well i don't suppose the majority of La Liga or Serie A care, lets be honest.

I'm, obviously, talking in football news/shows covering the PL. It is still the biggest football league in the world if measured by interest outside their own country.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Kaizero

[Joey Linton]

Just now, Kaizero said:

I'm talking more in football news/shows covering the PL, which is still the biggest football league in the world if measured by interest outside their own country.

He's a perfect fit for the owners there, just like Bruce is here. 

Subservient, non critical, because if both clubs were being run "properly" neither would have the jobs they do in the first place. 

[Kaizero]

3 minutes ago, Joey Linton said:

He's a perfect fit for the owners there, just like Bruce is here. 

Subservient, non critical, because if both clubs were being run "properly" neither would have the jobs they do in the first place. 

Then neither would Guardiola at Barcelona, or Klopp at Dortmund - and tons more. Tuchel as well.

You don't measure a manager on the owners, you measure him on the fans. The fans know what is the best for the club even if the manager is a former player. Sure, it can buy a little extra time, but not two and a half years. They're seeing things they like. OGS isn't non critical either, he spoke out against the ESL the earliest among the ESL managers and kept it up as well even after it was resolved.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Kaizero

[bobbydazzla]

I absolutely fucking hate Manchester United. 

 

[Joey Linton]

9 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

Then neither would Guardiola at Barcelona, or Klopp at Dortmund - and tons more. Tuchel as well.

You don't measure a manager on the owners, you measure him on the fans. The fans know what is the best for the club even if the manager is a former player. Sure, it can buy a little extra time, but not two and a half years. They're seeing things they like. OGS isn't non critical either, he spoke out against the ESL the earliest among the ESL managers and kept it up as well even after it was resolved.

Not sure how you've concluded someone appointing three of the best managers in the game would be evidence of their clubs not being run properly.

[triggs]

3 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

I absolutely fucking hate Manchester United. 

 

I used to hate them because of their dominance. Now I hate them because of the obsession people have with if OGS is "good enough" 

[brummie]

25 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said:

This England game has been absolutely gash. 

As a rule of thumb, the worse the last friendlies before the tournament are, the better we do.

1990 great example. We looked horrendous, the press crucified Bobby Robson, as you'll remember.

[Froggy]

45 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

As mentioned in the comments, some of those aren't even correct. And also, they're of no consequence. The results at the end of a season are what matters. Positive win records mean nothing either if they are off-set by tons of losses otherwise. Hence why my post referenced actual results, not records.

That tweet is 18 months old. He wasn't even halfway through his first full season. 

We finished that league campaign with 9 wins and 5 draws. We beat Chelsea, City and Leicester in that run and finished third. 

Sharing an 18 month old tweet to to criticise a manager is beyond belief. 

[Froggy]

13 minutes ago, Joey Linton said:

Not sure how you've concluded someone appointing three of the best managers in the game would be evidence of their clubs not being run properly.

They weren't three of the best managers in the game when they were appointed at big clubs. That's his point. 

[Joey Linton]

5 minutes ago, Froggy said:

They weren't three of the best managers in the game when they were appointed at big clubs. That's his point. 

Nor had they already been utter shite at Cardiff either. 

[The Prophet]

54 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

Can you exemplify, though? "He's not a top tier manager", okay, explain to me what a top tier manager is and what the requirement should be to manage Man Utd.

First and foremost there is no identity or philosophy there. Take this seasons top four, without knowing who was who, you could identify the sides managed by Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel. Man United, not so much.

I'm not sure who is in charge of recruitment these days (I know it was Woodward), but have recruited well in recent years. Bruno, Maguire and Cavani were brought in as the finished articles. AWB less so, but he was a very good player at Crystal Palace. The signings have improved them no question and while I appreciate all teams would miss their best players, it feels like they would fall apart without Bruno. Again due to a lack of any district coaching stlye or philosophy.

On the whole I'd also say there has been a number of consistent problems. Man United are sluggish starters and frequently fall behind. To their credit they often go onto win, but their slow starts have cost them.  He also looks shy of a plan B. Other than the PSG game a year or so back, when he made some cracking changes, he struggled to impose himself on games.

Overall, he's done better than expected but a club of Man United's stature could do much, much better than OGS.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by The Prophet

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, Joey Linton said:

Nor had they already been utter shite at Cardiff either. 

That wasn't Ole's job before Man Utd, but Tuchel and Klopp both had sub 40% win ratios at Mainz before getting a move to Dortmund. 

Ole got half a season at Cardiff. To use that to define him is also beyond belief. 

 

[Ben]

1 minute ago, Froggy said:

That wasn't Ole's job before Man Utd, but Tuchel and Klopp both had sub 40% win ratios at Mainz before getting a move to Dortmund. 

Ole got half a season at Cardiff. To use that to define him is also beyond belief. 

 

Your defence of Ole is admirable and TBF he has done a good job settling the ship, but Man U need to step up in class.

Ole is in management as he was a player, a good substitute, but never first choice.

[Kaizero]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

First and foremost there is no identity or philosophy there. Take this seasons top four, without knowing who was who, you could identify the sides managed by Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel. Man United, not do much.

I'm not sure who is in charge of recruitment these days (I know it was Woodward), but have recruited well in recent years. Bruno, Maguire and Cavani were brought in as the finished articles. AWB less so, but he was a very good player at Crystal Palace. The signings have improved them no question and while I appreciate all teams would miss their best players, it feels like they would fall apart without Bruno. Again due to any district coaching stlye or philosophy.

On the whole I'd also say there has been a number of consistent problems. Man United are sluggish starters and frequently fall behind. To their credit they often go onto win, but their slow starts have cost them.  He also looks shy of a plan B. Other than the PSG game a year or so back, when he made some cracking changes, he struggled to impose himself on games.

Overall, he's done better than expected but a club of Man United's stature could do much, much better than OGS.

https://themastermindsite.com/2020/12/30/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-manchester-united-tactical-analysis/
 

https://runningtheshowblog.wordpress.com/2021/03/02/manchester-united-pressing-tactics-tactical-analysis-ole-gunnar-solskjaer/
 

Having watched his Molde side it's fairly easy for me to recognize his football philosophy and he's implemented that at Man Utd and understand a lot of his reasoning behind the changes he does. 

[Kaizero]

Just now, Ben said:

Your defence of Ole is admirable and TBF he has done a good job settling the ship, but Man U need to step up in class.

Ole is in management as he was a player, a good substitute, but never first choice.

Pep's done a good job at Barcelona, but they need a step up in class.

Tito's done a good job at Barcelona, but they need a step up in class.

Klopp's done a good job at Dortmund, but they need a step up in class.

Tuchel's done a good job at Dortmund, but they need a step up in class.

[Kaizero]

7 minutes ago, Froggy said:

That wasn't Ole's job before Man Utd, but Tuchel and Klopp both had sub 40% win ratios at Mainz before getting a move to Dortmund. 

Ole got half a season at Cardiff. To use that to define him is also beyond belief. 

 

People are discounting just how hard (relatively speaking, as the quality of players and teams in the league is lesser than in big leagues) it was to essentially topple Rosenborg off their throne in Norway. It's like taking over Hearts or Aberdeen and then taking them to total Scottish domination.

Yes, the quality of the league is much poorer than the PL. Doesn't mean it's not hard to topple dominant forces. Hodgson failed at doing so in Norway. Potter failed in Sweden. 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Kaizero

[Ben]

1 minute ago, Kaizero said:

Pep's done a good job at Barcelona, but they need a step up in class.

Tito's done a good job at Barcelona, but they need a step up in class.

Klopp's done a good job at Dortmund, but they need a step up in class.

Tuchel's done a good job at Dortmund, but they need a step up in class.

[Kaizero]

4 minutes ago, Ben said:

Do you fail to realize they were appointed to their first - massive - clubs on lesser merits than OGS was to his Man Utd gig? Yet these are genius managers, and OGS can be written off after two and a half years with steady improvement and progress at a club that had failed to finish in the top third 5 out of 6 times before OGS got the gig? You can't have both. Barcelona were just, or moreso, as idiotic as Man Utd by appointing Pep, in your opinion - then.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Kaizero

[Froggy]

7 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

First and foremost there is no identity or philosophy there. Take this seasons top four, without knowing who was who, you could identify the sides managed by Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel. Man United, not so much.

I'm not sure who is in charge of recruitment these days (I know it was Woodward), but have recruited well in recent years. Bruno, Maguire and Cavani were brought in as the finished articles. AWB less so, but he was a very good player at Crystal Palace. The signings have improved them no question and while I appreciate all teams would miss their best players, it feels like they would fall apart without Bruno. Again due to any district coaching stlye or philosophy.

On the whole I'd also say there has been a number of consistent problems. Man United are sluggish starters and frequently fall behind. To their credit they often go onto win, but their slow starts have cost them.  He also looks shy of a plan B. Other than the PSG game a year or so back, when he made some cracking changes, he struggled to impose himself on games.

Overall, he's done better than expected but a club of Man United's stature could do much, much better than OGS.

His philosophy is clear as day in my opinion. Two energetic holding midfielders to win the ball back and break as quick as possible. Give the ball to your creators (Bruno and Pogba) and attack right at the heart of the opposition defence with pace from the wings. A big problem before was not having a good enough centre forward to bury the rebounds but Cavani has added that. The style isn't dissimilar to what we played under Fergie. Another reason we are happy with him. It is night and day from the previous managers. 

I also feel it's a touch contradictory to say Ole has no plan B and can't impose himself on games whenever we've went in at half time behind with so many games and came out in the second half and blew teams away. 

That's not to say going behind so often is acceptable. He needs to sort that out. 

That being said, you've a least acknowledged the progression. Everybody knows now there's no more progression to be made without competing for titles and winning trophies. He has his work cut out next season. I can't wait for it. 

[bobbydazzla]

I absolutely fucking hate Ole Gunnar Solskjaer