Fantail Breeze Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Kaizero said: Nope, the facts and evidence point the other way. Yes, there's been runs without wins, but on the grand scale those runs have not done much to his actual numbers. If you took the winning runs and losing runs and spread them normally across a season, neither one would be a talking point. The end all is that OGS is perceived poorly because he came straight to Man Utd from a "lesser" side and hadn't earned his stripes in the PFM merry-go-round and has thoughts above his station, we can't have that, get him out. Let's stick Pochettino in there, who has less honors on his resume just because he's managed in the PL before. Man Utd could recruit from League Two for all I care. If after 2.5 seasons they’ve got nothing to show for it other than “spirit” and culture. I think people would be right to ask questions. Some quick appointments work (Guardiola, Gerrard) and some don’t (Lampard, OGS). Man Utd aren’t the first to make an appointment like this and won’t be the last. We’ll see if he ever delivers this success you claim he’s building. Time will tell. Edited June 2, 2021 by Fantail Breeze Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Just now, The Prophet said: Well yeah, the results driven narrative in this country means Klopp, for example, wouldn't have been given a sniff at a top four club. Dortmund recognised his coaching ability in spite of his results. I saw a lot of OGS's spell at Cardiff and while they were somewhat doomed, there was nothing to suggest he would turn it around at any stage. Again at Man United there has been nothing to suggest he's got the ability to improve a player or that his in-game management is any good. Bruno looks to be crutch he's going to overly rely on. Shaw, Bissaka, Rashford, Martial, Fred and McTominay off the top of my head all improved vastly under OGS. There's more as well but I can't recall names. The team looks cohesive, for one, compared to previous Man Utd versions under other managers post-Sir Alex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astroblack Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Ridiculous red card decision for Wales. It’s a friendly FFS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said: I don’t think anyone is saying that. Man Utd could recruit from League Two for all I care. If after 2.5 seasons they’ve got nothing to show for it other than “spirit” and culture. I think people would be right to ask questions. Some quick appointments work (Guardiola, Gerrard) and some don’t (Lampard, OGS). Man Utd aren’t the first to make an appointment like this and won’t be the last. We’ll see if he ever delivers this success you claim he’s building. Time will tell. Third best record in Man Utd managerial history, five semi-finals and one final since he took over. Since Sir Alex retired, Man Utd have only finished in the top 3 three times, with OGS leading the team in two of them. Yes, no actual trophies, but the results under OGS are all pointing in the correct direction. Edited June 2, 2021 by Kaizero Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Kaizero said: Shaw, Bissaka, Rashford, Martial, Fred and McTominay off the top of my head all improved vastly under OGS. There's more as well but I can't recall names. The team looks cohesive, for one, compared to previous Man Utd versions under other managers post-Sir Alex. Shaw is fair enough. He's been very good this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Just now, Kaizero said: Third best record in Man Utd managerial history, five semi-finals and one final since he took over. Since Sir Alex retired, Man Utd have only finished in the top 3 three times, with OGS leading the team in two of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Fantail Breeze said: As mentioned in the comments, some of those aren't even correct. And also, they're of no consequence. The results at the end of a season are what matters. Positive win records mean nothing either if they are off-set by tons of losses otherwise. Hence why my post referenced actual results, not records. Edited June 2, 2021 by Kaizero Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Kaizero said: As mentioned in the comments, some of those aren't even correct. And also, they're of no consequence. The results at the end of a season are what matters. Positive win records mean nothing either if they are off-set by tons of losses otherwise. Hence why my post referenced actual results, not records. Exactly - results matter. And the only results OGS has achieved is two top four finishes. Getting to a Europa League final by beating some very poor sides, isn’t particularly worthwhile if you make incredibly poor decisions in the final (against the 7th best team in Spain). Who remembers great sides by how many semi finals they reach ffs? Edited June 2, 2021 by Fantail Breeze Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said: Exactly - results matter. And the only results OGS has achieved is two top four finishes. Getting to a Europa League final by beating some very poor sides, isn’t particularly worthwhile if you make incredibly poor decisions in the final (against the 7th best team in Spain). As mentioned in my post, Man Utd has finished top 3 only three times since Sir Alex retired - two of those are the full seasons under OGS. He has the third best record of any Man Utd manager through history. Those are the irrefutable facts of the situation. I would not throw the die and change manager if I was Man Utd looking at those numbers. Van Gaal didn't get Man Utd into the top three. People are forgetting just how shit Man Utd were after Sir Alex. Edited June 2, 2021 by Kaizero Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Kaizero said: As mentioned in my post, Man Utd has finished top 3 only three times since Sir Alex retired - two of those are the full seasons under OGS. He has the third best record of any Man Utd manager through history. Those are the irrefutable facts of the situation. I would not throw the die and change manager if I was Man Utd looking at those numbers. Van Gaal didn't get Man Utd into the top three. People are forgetting just how shit Man Utd were after Sir Alex. We’ll not agree - so we’ll leave it there, as it’ll probably become tedious for everyone else However, I’ve enjoyed our exchange and welcome healthy debate - no need to get heated though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 This England game has been absolutely gash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 You also need to factor in he has the second most expensive squad in the league at his disposal and has won less trophies than both previous managers. OGS has done better than a lot, including myself expected. I just think there's been little to suggest he can turn them into a side that consistently challenges for major honours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said: We’ll not agree - so we’ll leave it there, as it’ll probably become tedious for everyone else However, I’ve enjoyed our exchange and welcome healthy debate - no need to get heated though. It's been great, my vitriol was not aimed at you per se, more that I've been in this discussion before and things generally tend to devolve at the stage I bring in the third best in their managerial history stats and so on, so I reacted preemptively Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Linton Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, The Prophet said: You also need to factor in he has the second most expensive squad in the league at his disposal and has won less trophies than both previous managers. OGS has done better than a lot, including myself expected. I just think there's been little to suggest he can turn them into a side that consistently challenges for major honours. The other clubs in the top six will be hoping they stick with him. No bigger judgement of his ability than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Prophet said: You also need to factor in he has the second most expensive squad in the league at his disposal and has won less trophies than both previous managers. OGS has done better than a lot, including myself expected. I just think there's been little to suggest he can turn them into a side that consistently challenges for major honours. Can you exemplify, though? "He's not a top tier manager", okay, explain to me what a top tier manager is and what the requirement should be to manage Man Utd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Allardyce had a better record at Everton than Ancelotti and Bruce has a similar record 'on paper' to Benitez. I think everyone knows the truth, though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Just now, Joey Linton said: The other clubs in the top six will be hoping they stick with him. No bigger judgement of his ability than that. This is, again, opinion. No other club has said they are saying they hope they stick with him. The guy just finished ahead of 18 of the clubs. There's very little animosity or negative talk regarding OGS at Man Utd outside England, where there's a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said: Allardyce had a better record at Everton than Ancelotti and Bruce has a similar record 'on paper' to Benitez. I think everyone knows the truth, though? Where are the Man Utd fans wanting him out, then? You can counter that argument with everyone outside NUFC saying we should be happy with Bruce, surely we know better than the outsiders what is best for our club? If the Man Utd fans are happy, that means they are seeing things they like that are going in a direction they like. Otherwise they'd hound him out. Edited June 2, 2021 by Kaizero Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Linton Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Kaizero said: This is, again, opinion. No other club has said they are saying they hope they stick with him. The guy just finished ahead of 18 of the clubs. There's very little animosity or negative talk regarding OGS at Man Utd outside England, where there's a lot. Well i don't suppose the majority of La Liga or Serie A care, lets be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Joey Linton said: Well i don't suppose the majority of La Liga or Serie A care, lets be honest. I'm, obviously, talking in football news/shows covering the PL. It is still the biggest football league in the world if measured by interest outside their own country. Edited June 2, 2021 by Kaizero Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Linton Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Just now, Kaizero said: I'm talking more in football news/shows covering the PL, which is still the biggest football league in the world if measured by interest outside their own country. He's a perfect fit for the owners there, just like Bruce is here. Subservient, non critical, because if both clubs were being run "properly" neither would have the jobs they do in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Joey Linton said: He's a perfect fit for the owners there, just like Bruce is here. Subservient, non critical, because if both clubs were being run "properly" neither would have the jobs they do in the first place. Then neither would Guardiola at Barcelona, or Klopp at Dortmund - and tons more. Tuchel as well. You don't measure a manager on the owners, you measure him on the fans. The fans know what is the best for the club even if the manager is a former player. Sure, it can buy a little extra time, but not two and a half years. They're seeing things they like. OGS isn't non critical either, he spoke out against the ESL the earliest among the ESL managers and kept it up as well even after it was resolved. Edited June 2, 2021 by Kaizero Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 I absolutely fucking hate Manchester United. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Linton Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, Kaizero said: Then neither would Guardiola at Barcelona, or Klopp at Dortmund - and tons more. Tuchel as well. You don't measure a manager on the owners, you measure him on the fans. The fans know what is the best for the club even if the manager is a former player. Sure, it can buy a little extra time, but not two and a half years. They're seeing things they like. OGS isn't non critical either, he spoke out against the ESL the earliest among the ESL managers and kept it up as well even after it was resolved. Not sure how you've concluded someone appointing three of the best managers in the game would be evidence of their clubs not being run properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: I absolutely fucking hate Manchester United. I used to hate them because of their dominance. Now I hate them because of the obsession people have with if OGS is "good enough" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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