Other games (2021/22)

[brummie]

25 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said:

This England game has been absolutely gash. 

As a rule of thumb, the worse the last friendlies before the tournament are, the better we do.

1990 great example. We looked horrendous, the press crucified Bobby Robson, as you'll remember.

[Froggy]

45 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

As mentioned in the comments, some of those aren't even correct. And also, they're of no consequence. The results at the end of a season are what matters. Positive win records mean nothing either if they are off-set by tons of losses otherwise. Hence why my post referenced actual results, not records.

That tweet is 18 months old. He wasn't even halfway through his first full season. 

We finished that league campaign with 9 wins and 5 draws. We beat Chelsea, City and Leicester in that run and finished third. 

Sharing an 18 month old tweet to to criticise a manager is beyond belief. 

[Froggy]

13 minutes ago, Joey Linton said:

Not sure how you've concluded someone appointing three of the best managers in the game would be evidence of their clubs not being run properly.

They weren't three of the best managers in the game when they were appointed at big clubs. That's his point. 

[Joey Linton]

5 minutes ago, Froggy said:

They weren't three of the best managers in the game when they were appointed at big clubs. That's his point. 

Nor had they already been utter shite at Cardiff either. 

[The Prophet]

54 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

Can you exemplify, though? "He's not a top tier manager", okay, explain to me what a top tier manager is and what the requirement should be to manage Man Utd.

First and foremost there is no identity or philosophy there. Take this seasons top four, without knowing who was who, you could identify the sides managed by Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel. Man United, not so much.

I'm not sure who is in charge of recruitment these days (I know it was Woodward), but have recruited well in recent years. Bruno, Maguire and Cavani were brought in as the finished articles. AWB less so, but he was a very good player at Crystal Palace. The signings have improved them no question and while I appreciate all teams would miss their best players, it feels like they would fall apart without Bruno. Again due to a lack of any district coaching stlye or philosophy.

On the whole I'd also say there has been a number of consistent problems. Man United are sluggish starters and frequently fall behind. To their credit they often go onto win, but their slow starts have cost them.  He also looks shy of a plan B. Other than the PSG game a year or so back, when he made some cracking changes, he struggled to impose himself on games.

Overall, he's done better than expected but a club of Man United's stature could do much, much better than OGS.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by The Prophet

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, Joey Linton said:

Nor had they already been utter shite at Cardiff either. 

That wasn't Ole's job before Man Utd, but Tuchel and Klopp both had sub 40% win ratios at Mainz before getting a move to Dortmund. 

Ole got half a season at Cardiff. To use that to define him is also beyond belief. 

 

[Ben]

1 minute ago, Froggy said:

That wasn't Ole's job before Man Utd, but Tuchel and Klopp both had sub 40% win ratios at Mainz before getting a move to Dortmund. 

Ole got half a season at Cardiff. To use that to define him is also beyond belief. 

 

Your defence of Ole is admirable and TBF he has done a good job settling the ship, but Man U need to step up in class.

Ole is in management as he was a player, a good substitute, but never first choice.

[Kaizero]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

First and foremost there is no identity or philosophy there. Take this seasons top four, without knowing who was who, you could identify the sides managed by Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel. Man United, not do much.

I'm not sure who is in charge of recruitment these days (I know it was Woodward), but have recruited well in recent years. Bruno, Maguire and Cavani were brought in as the finished articles. AWB less so, but he was a very good player at Crystal Palace. The signings have improved them no question and while I appreciate all teams would miss their best players, it feels like they would fall apart without Bruno. Again due to any district coaching stlye or philosophy.

On the whole I'd also say there has been a number of consistent problems. Man United are sluggish starters and frequently fall behind. To their credit they often go onto win, but their slow starts have cost them.  He also looks shy of a plan B. Other than the PSG game a year or so back, when he made some cracking changes, he struggled to impose himself on games.

Overall, he's done better than expected but a club of Man United's stature could do much, much better than OGS.

https://themastermindsite.com/2020/12/30/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-manchester-united-tactical-analysis/
 

https://runningtheshowblog.wordpress.com/2021/03/02/manchester-united-pressing-tactics-tactical-analysis-ole-gunnar-solskjaer/
 

Having watched his Molde side it's fairly easy for me to recognize his football philosophy and he's implemented that at Man Utd and understand a lot of his reasoning behind the changes he does. 

[Kaizero]

Just now, Ben said:

Your defence of Ole is admirable and TBF he has done a good job settling the ship, but Man U need to step up in class.

Ole is in management as he was a player, a good substitute, but never first choice.

Pep's done a good job at Barcelona, but they need a step up in class.

Tito's done a good job at Barcelona, but they need a step up in class.

Klopp's done a good job at Dortmund, but they need a step up in class.

Tuchel's done a good job at Dortmund, but they need a step up in class.

[Kaizero]

7 minutes ago, Froggy said:

That wasn't Ole's job before Man Utd, but Tuchel and Klopp both had sub 40% win ratios at Mainz before getting a move to Dortmund. 

Ole got half a season at Cardiff. To use that to define him is also beyond belief. 

 

People are discounting just how hard (relatively speaking, as the quality of players and teams in the league is lesser than in big leagues) it was to essentially topple Rosenborg off their throne in Norway. It's like taking over Hearts or Aberdeen and then taking them to total Scottish domination.

Yes, the quality of the league is much poorer than the PL. Doesn't mean it's not hard to topple dominant forces. Hodgson failed at doing so in Norway. Potter failed in Sweden. 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Kaizero

[Ben]

1 minute ago, Kaizero said:

Pep's done a good job at Barcelona, but they need a step up in class.

Tito's done a good job at Barcelona, but they need a step up in class.

Klopp's done a good job at Dortmund, but they need a step up in class.

Tuchel's done a good job at Dortmund, but they need a step up in class.

[Kaizero]

4 minutes ago, Ben said:

Do you fail to realize they were appointed to their first - massive - clubs on lesser merits than OGS was to his Man Utd gig? Yet these are genius managers, and OGS can be written off after two and a half years with steady improvement and progress at a club that had failed to finish in the top third 5 out of 6 times before OGS got the gig? You can't have both. Barcelona were just, or moreso, as idiotic as Man Utd by appointing Pep, in your opinion - then.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Kaizero

[Froggy]

7 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

First and foremost there is no identity or philosophy there. Take this seasons top four, without knowing who was who, you could identify the sides managed by Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel. Man United, not so much.

I'm not sure who is in charge of recruitment these days (I know it was Woodward), but have recruited well in recent years. Bruno, Maguire and Cavani were brought in as the finished articles. AWB less so, but he was a very good player at Crystal Palace. The signings have improved them no question and while I appreciate all teams would miss their best players, it feels like they would fall apart without Bruno. Again due to any district coaching stlye or philosophy.

On the whole I'd also say there has been a number of consistent problems. Man United are sluggish starters and frequently fall behind. To their credit they often go onto win, but their slow starts have cost them.  He also looks shy of a plan B. Other than the PSG game a year or so back, when he made some cracking changes, he struggled to impose himself on games.

Overall, he's done better than expected but a club of Man United's stature could do much, much better than OGS.

His philosophy is clear as day in my opinion. Two energetic holding midfielders to win the ball back and break as quick as possible. Give the ball to your creators (Bruno and Pogba) and attack right at the heart of the opposition defence with pace from the wings. A big problem before was not having a good enough centre forward to bury the rebounds but Cavani has added that. The style isn't dissimilar to what we played under Fergie. Another reason we are happy with him. It is night and day from the previous managers. 

I also feel it's a touch contradictory to say Ole has no plan B and can't impose himself on games whenever we've went in at half time behind with so many games and came out in the second half and blew teams away. 

That's not to say going behind so often is acceptable. He needs to sort that out. 

That being said, you've a least acknowledged the progression. Everybody knows now there's no more progression to be made without competing for titles and winning trophies. He has his work cut out next season. I can't wait for it. 

[bobbydazzla]

I absolutely fucking hate Ole Gunnar Solskjaer

[Ben]

2 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

Do you fail to realize they were appointed to their first - massive - clubs on lesser merits than OGS was to his Man Utd gig? Yet these are genius managers, and OGS can be written off after two and a half years?

At the top level he's not ruthless enough 

[Joey Linton]

7 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

Pep's done a good job at Barcelona, but they need a step up in class.

Tito's done a good job at Barcelona, but they need a step up in class.

Klopp's done a good job at Dortmund, but they need a step up in class.

Tuchel's done a good job at Dortmund, but they need a step up in class.

What the fuck is this nonsense?

[Froggy]

Just now, Ben said:

At the top level he's not ruthless enough 

Very possible. A lot of Man Utd fans would agree with this. 

[joeyt]

How was Klopp appointed to Dortmund on less merits than OGS?

[Kaizero]

Just now, joeyt said:

How was Klopp appointed to Dortmund on less merits than OGS?

Two 11th placed finishes in the Bundesliga as his highest peak, no honours, failed in the UEFA Cup qualifiers, one relegation and failed promotion push. 

[Kaizero]

10 minutes ago, Joey Linton said:

What the fuck is this nonsense?

Your own logic used against you. 

[Shearergol]

Does @Kaizero really adore OGS purely on nationality? I'm yet to pick up on it.

[joeyt]

1 minute ago, Kaizero said:

Two 11th placed finishes in the Bundesliga as his highest peak, no honours, failed in the UEFA Cup qualifiers, one relegation and failed promotion push. 

With a club who had never played in the Bundesliga before he was appointed...

[Kaizero]

Just now, Shearergol said:

Does @Kaizero really adore OGS purely on nationality? I'm yet to pick up on it.

I actually dislike him quite a bit. My Norwegian team is Rosenborg. I just dislike people not being logical more. 

[Ben]

Just now, Kaizero said:

I actually dislike him quite a bit. My Norwegian team is Rosenborg. I just dislike people not being logical more. 

Do you think Ole is the best manager Man U could possible hire right now ? 

[Kaizero]

1 minute ago, joeyt said:

With a club who had never played in the Bundesliga before he was appointed...

I'm just going off the requirements listed by posters on here when it comes to being good enough to be appointed to a "big" club. My entire point is that it wasn't wrong of Dortmund to appoint Klopp, yet following the logic given around OGS that would've been a horrible decision by Dortmund.