Oba Martins

[Mick]

 

I'm running a bit slow again as usual.

 

edited for truth before my brother does it while pretending not to be related so that he can be the only person to back me up, we'll deny being related though.

 

 

 

 

The bloke who complains when others edit his posts.

[Mick]

 

so what do you think of a defender who cost 8m quid  :roll:

 

I might be wrong but I guess that he doesn't give a shit while discussing bellamy and Martins.

[Mick]

 

 

Looks like it was just quoted rather than edited.  Everybody's slow on Boxing Day.

 

Cheeky get. bluebiggrin.gif

[AlanSkÃrare]

 

so what do you think of a defender who cost 8m quid  :roll:

 

I might be wrong but I guess that he doesn't give a shit while discussing bellamy and Martins.

 

- Lets just say I expected him to be good until I started to learn what Souness was like.

[Guest Knightrider]

Martins is a better all-round player than Bellamy for me with a lot more potential but Bellamy was ideal for that SBR team and of course Big Al so was very very effective, even when he wasn't scoring or setting chances up. As others have said his running and work-rate often galvanised the team and in many ways he was a catalyst. Martins is more of an individual at the moment and isn't quite as effective to the team as Bellamy was. However, Martins isn't playing in a great team or alongside a great partner like Bellamy was so his 9 goals in 22 starts is nothing short of remarkable, especially given his age and the whole adapting factor. As AS9 says, I'm not sure a young foreign player coming to the Premiership has had such a start as Martins and long may it continue.

 

BTW I kind of agree with NE5 about players that may not score as many being more valuable to the team than those who do. Cole scored 41 goals for us and was replaced by Sir Les who scored half that number... but he was the better player for the team and when he joined, we improved as a team through his effectiveness to the team, over the Cole team so I can see his point.

 

That's why many fans weren't too bothered about Bellamy's goals return as he was important to the team in other areas.

 

I don't think Martins is a natural goalscorer so won't get you 25 a season like Big Al but him scoring 10 + and creating goals for others will be more than adequate enough providing we have a regular and consistent goalscorer alongside him. Owen could be that man but I'm not sure the two could work together and I'm not even sure if Owen will be come back the same player.

[Guest the_serbian_mag]

Mick man, you DO have a sense of humor, right?

[OzzieMandias]

Bellamy is history.

 

Martins is the future.

[aimaad22]

I'm not knocking him. But there is no room for sentiment in football.

 

Funny you should say that because it seems that its sentiment that's making you still rate Bellamy as high as you do.

 

I'm not one of those who thinks someone that scores 18 - 20 goals is better than someone who scores 10 - 15 goals. They are different types of players and I would rather have Bellamy in my team.

 

Then thank goodness you arent our manager.

 

Aimaad.....I mean because they are different players playing different roles ? A player who scored 10-15 goals and supports another forward player and creates situations etc can be a much better player than a player who scores 18-20 goals and doesn't really contribute in a footballing sense ? Also consider that simply looking at a goalscoring stat doesn't take into accout how many of those goals are scored when you are for instance already 2-0 up, or at home rather than playing away, or penalties possibly

 

I think Craig Bellamys worth to Newcastle couldn't be measured by goals alone, he transformed defence to attack, he prevented teams from pushing up against us and he without a doubt put 2-3 years on Alan Shearers career.

 

 

 

 

And Martins doesnt contribute anything to the team as a whole? I think his flicked header put through Dyer for his goal against Arsenal. And then that run from his own half to set up Duff for his goal against West Ham? You cant assume that somebody who scores 20 goals a season doesnt set up goals for others.

 

And that comment about goals being scored when we're 2-0 up and situations like that? What are you on about mate?  You are clutching at straws in your blind defence of Bellamy.

 

I don't agree. Maybe using a goalscoring stat doesn't tell the full story is clutching at straws ?

 

Time will tell. Don't get me wrong, I hope he succeeds, of course I do. But I think it is quite sad that so many people have turned against Craig Bellamy because of the lies and incompetence of a fuckwit hopeless manager that smeared him and influenced their outlook in a bad way.

 

Martins' two goals got us the win against Talinn, his two goals got us the win at Blackburn, his two goals got us the win against Watford, his penalty agaisnt Reading got us back into the game. Henry gets a lot of his goals against weaker teams, I think his last few hattricks have come agaisnt Fulham, Wigan and Watford. So you would have Bellamy in your team rather than him :roll:

 

Well I said a while ago that if Martins had came in and scored goals like Andy Cole, people would not be questioning Roeder and we would see a notable change in results and attitude among supporters, so this is right. Will he become as good as Cole was do you think ? And yes, as I said they are different players, Bellamy maybe will not be a goalscorer like Martins, but was Peter Beardsley as good a goalscorer as Andy Cole ? Which of those would you choose between ?

 

There's no doubting Bellamy's committment, he always gave it his all. But he just hasnt got the class to be a top notch striker. He's the sort of player who's useful from time to time but thats about it. Here in Martins we've got a potentially world class striker. And Martins is supposed to be a very decent lad as well, dont see him causing the sort of unrest and trouble Bellamy did from time to time.

 

There's no way in hell I'd have him back, and Im glad to see most people think the same.

 

I think if he came back a hell of a lot of people would change their mind, there are a lot of fickle people around.

 

 

 

Souness was everything you say he is, but I dont for one minute think Bellamy was completely innocent. He did act like a complete arse at times.

 

Among choosing between Cole and Beardsley, that would depend on the situation.

 

I still dont get why you would choose Bellamy over Martins. If Bellamy had that little extra bit in creating spaces for other etc, Martins has advantages over him in a lot more areas. Like its been mentioned, he's physically stronger and more fit, better in the air and has the ability to create something out of nothing, not to mention he's two footed and has a wicked shot on him. He's got the ability to play in many roles, that Bellamy type role which he adopts while playing alongside Sibierski/Ameobi and he doesnt do too badly as a target man either(despite his small height).

 

People are saying they both are different type of players. Well, Martins is being forced to play as the main man upfront, all the pressure's on him, he's expected to score goals and influence the game. Bellamy always played under Big Al's shadaw, anything from Bellars was a bonus, the main load fell on Shearer. So he had a lot of freeedom and a lot less pressure. Who knows, maybe Martins prefers playing in a role like that and would flourish in it. But he's not, and he's still doing well. My point is he's versatile, which Bellamy just isnt.

 

Like Ive said before, there's no denying Bellamy was a useful player for us. But Martins can be just that as well, and so much more.

 

 

[Lenny]

I do love how most people make out Bellamy to be a saint and that he was ruined by Souness. Frankly that is complete and utter shyte, there arent many things Souness did that were right but getting rid of Bellamy, and Robert for that matter was the right thing to do! To Sounesses credit he came in and cleaned up a whole load of shit left behind by a manager that had no control over his team. He removed 2 cocks, and transformed a players attitude in Kieron Dyer.

 

Oh and before people think i love Souness, i dont, he was shit, but he wasnt pure evil, there were a few (very few) things he did correctly!

[NE5]

Bellamy is history.

 

Martins is the future.

 

I give you Ozzie Mandiarse, resident mackem-ite who lives in a shed like all mackems ........who supported Souness to the end so much so that he disappeared for months when he was sacked - and a man who thinks the player who scored TWO league goals in his last season was a "legend" ....... and loves Newcastle so much he dug the dirt on the club to an anti-geordie cockney lundun journo

 

 

[NE5]

I do love how most people make out Bellamy to be a saint and that he was ruined by Souness. Frankly that is complete and utter shyte, there arent many things Souness did that were right but getting rid of Bellamy, and Robert for that matter was the right thing to do! To Sounesses credit he came in and cleaned up a whole load of shit left behind by a manager that had no control over his team. He removed 2 cocks, and transformed a players attitude in Kieron Dyer.

 

Oh and before people think i love Souness, i dont, he was shit, but he wasnt pure evil, there were a few (very few) things he did correctly!

 

nobody criticised Craig Bellamy when he made the difference to the team that propelled us into the Champions League and scored the winner in Rotterdam

 

As for the right thing to do ? Look at the miserable time we have had up front and the money we have spent attempting to replace him since he left

 

 

[Baggio]

nobody criticised Craig Bellamy when he made the difference to the team that propelled us into the Champions League and scored the winner in Rotterdam

 

I remember plenty criticising him for both of his bans in the CL for being a petulant twat, was it 6 or 7 games he was banned for in total?

 

[NE5]

nobody criticised Craig Bellamy when he made the difference to the team that propelled us into the Champions League and scored the winner in Rotterdam

 

I remember plenty criticising him for both of his bans in the CL for being a petulant twat, was it 6 or 7 games he was banned for in total?

 

 

Not me, because I realised he at least turned up when he played, rather than a fair few players who didn't bother turning up for at least 50% of the times they were supposed to be playing - who did we get the most performances from ?

 

Why did you clip the 2nd paragraph ?

 

 

[Mick]

Bellamy is history.

 

Martins is the future.

 

I give you Ozzie Mandiarse, resident mackem-ite who lives in a shed like all mackems ........who supported Souness to the end so much so that he disappeared for months when he was sacked - and a man who thinks the player who scored TWO league goals in his last season was a "legend" ....... and loves Newcastle so much he dug the dirt on the club to an anti-geordie cockney lundun journo

 

 

 

Good job he didn't appoint Souness or you would slaughter him, my mistake, you wouldn't slaughter him, you would say that Ozzie was the best supporter that we'd had for decades and only supports England internationals and had supported us throughout Europe more times that all but supporters of 4 other clubs over the last 10 years.

 

Have I missed anything?

 

Apart from  :finger:

[Baggio]

nobody criticised Craig Bellamy when he made the difference to the team that propelled us into the Champions League and scored the winner in Rotterdam

 

I remember plenty criticising him for both of his bans in the CL for being a petulant T***, was it 6 or 7 games he was banned for in total?

 

 

Not me, because I realised he at least turned up when he played, rather than a fair few players who didn't bother turning up for at least 50% of the times they were supposed to be playing - who did we get the most performances from ?

 

Why did you clip the 2nd paragraph ?

 

 

 

What do you mean by performances? do you mean as in players who performed the most or how many games each player took part in?

 

I removed the second part when I reduced the piece I'd quoted, not just yours but Mark's piece too. The piece I left was the point I was responding to.

[NE5]

nobody criticised Craig Bellamy when he made the difference to the team that propelled us into the Champions League and scored the winner in Rotterdam

 

I remember plenty criticising him for both of his bans in the CL for being a petulant T***, was it 6 or 7 games he was banned for in total?

 

 

Not me, because I realised he at least turned up when he played, rather than a fair few players who didn't bother turning up for at least 50% of the times they were supposed to be playing - who did we get the most performances from ?

 

Why did you clip the 2nd paragraph ?

 

 

 

What do you mean by performances? do you mean as in players who performed the most

 

self explanatory

[NE5]

Bellamy is history.

 

Martins is the future.

 

I give you Ozzie Mandiarse, resident mackem-ite who lives in a shed like all mackems ........who supported Souness to the end so much so that he disappeared for months when he was sacked - and a man who thinks the player who scored TWO league goals in his last season was a "legend" ....... and loves Newcastle so much he dug the dirt on the club to an anti-geordie cockney lundun journo

 

 

 

Good job he didn't appoint Souness or you would slaughter him, my mistake, you wouldn't slaughter him, you would say that Ozzie was the best supporter that we'd had for decades

 

hardly.  He's like you I expect, not a clue about too much pre-1992

 

or afterwards too as it happens

 

  and only supports England internationals

 

 

usual gobbledeegook

 

 

 

[Baggio]

nobody criticised Craig Bellamy when he made the difference to the team that propelled us into the Champions League and scored the winner in Rotterdam

 

I remember plenty criticising him for both of his bans in the CL for being a petulant T***, was it 6 or 7 games he was banned for in total?

 

 

Not me, because I realised he at least turned up when he played, rather than a fair few players who didn't bother turning up for at least 50% of the times they were supposed to be playing - who did we get the most performances from ?

 

Why did you clip the 2nd paragraph ?

 

 

 

What do you mean by performances? do you mean as in players who performed the most

 

self explanatory

 

Everybody played well, Shearer, Bellamy, Robert, Speed, Dyer Solano etc were all on the top of their game, mainly because we had a top manager at the time capable of getting the best out of players, unfortunately for one reason or another we don't have that now.

 

For me Martins is the better player out of the two now, there's no room for sentiment in football and IMO Bellamy isn't anywhere near as good for Liverpool as he was for us, and he isn't as good for them as Martins has been for us.

 

[Dinho lad]

Compare Bellamy's first season in the Premiership with Martins'.

[Guest Terry2nil]

Martins = Heskey.

[Cajun]

Martins = Heskey.

 

bluesleep.gif

[Mowen]

So far, however long into the first season, Martins hasn't done quite as much as Bellamy had. There are circumstances, such as adaptation and potential etc., but it's hard to dispute that.

 

However, would anyone swap the Bellamy currently playing at Liverpool for the Martins currently playing for us? I know I wouldn't.

[Nobody]

Just looked at some youtube videos (again), and I'm so happy he is a Newcastle-player

He does not do everything right, but he still a player that as soon as he gets the ball he gets me out of my seat! Can't wait to see more of him :D

[Lenny]

So far, however long into the first season, Martins hasn't done quite as much as Bellamy had. There are circumstances, such as adaptation and potential etc., but it's hard to dispute that.

 

However, would anyone swap the Bellamy currently playing at Liverpool for the Martins currently playing for us? I know I wouldn't.

 

Im sure Bellamy wasnt particularly brilliant in his first season for us, perhaps im wrong! agreed I wouldnt swap martins for bellamy, martins is much more explosive and will only get better!

[Tisd09]

We forget that Bellamy had a good foil in Alan Shearer, Martins is the main man at the moment all the pressure is on him. After a sluggish start the lad has adapted well, he has a few things to work on, but if he irons some of them out like his decision making and off the ball running he will develop into one of the best strikers in the Premier League. Whilst Bellamy is good I wouldn't rate him amounst the best in the Premiership. His form for Blackburn last season was hot and he is coming into a good spell with Liverpool but I would take Martins over Bellamy.