Abacus Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, reefatoon said: It’s not just Bruce’s damage though. He didn’t set up the training schedules and things like that, this is what he implements to his coaches to do. The whole team around Bruce are just as culpable as Bruce is. The sooner they are all binned for actual real quality coaches (who will be brought in when a quality manager is installed) the better. And that's fair enough. But ultimately, it's the manager that makes the final calls and sets the tone. I think any new manager will indeed bring in his own coaching and back room team, so it may be a bit of a moot point. But I thought it was interesting hearing Jones say something along the lines of how he could make suggestions rather than decisions before now. I find it hard to believe that someone who had the players in every day because training is good was the same person making the decision about players having 7 days in 11 off. And no, I don't think he's absolved of all blame, or would be a good manager. I just don't think he warrants criticism for trying to steady the ship, both under Bruce.and now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abacus Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Although, yes, he was part of the coaching team that got us here, albeit as an outsider. So I don't expect him to last long, if maybe a bit longer than some of the others as a bridging coach to the new team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 12 minutes ago, reefatoon said: You are coming across really weird at the minute. I never said it wasn’t Bruce at all. I said the team he brought with him are just as much to blame as him (I actually said that in the post too, but you seem to have just ignored that). If you think it is just a manager that sorts everything out then you are completely wrong. I’m really not. See the post below 3 minutes ago, Abacus said: And that's fair enough. But ultimately, it's the manager that makes the final calls and sets the tone. I think any new manager will indeed bring in his own coaching and back room team, so it may be a bit of a moot point. But I thought it was interesting hearing Jones say something along the lines of how he could make suggestions rather than decisions before now. I find it hard to believe that someone who had the players in every day because training is good was the same person making the decision about players having 7 days in 11 off. And no, I don't think he's absolved of all blame, or would be a good manager. I just don't think he warrants criticism for trying to steady the ship, both under Bruce.and now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Thomson Mouse said: I’m really not. See the post below Aye, but that was someone else’s post. You don’t seem to come out with conversation or discussion, you just randomly post a couple of snarky one liners that don’t offer anything. You completely misquoted what I said just so you could have a snidey little comment. Someone else pointed it out yesterday too. If you disagree, I am more than happy to listen to what you think about our coaching set up and how you feel it works and what they have shown to prove that point. Would be great to discuss things, but your childish one liners don’t really offer anything, which is a shame as you are better than that. Edited October 31, 2021 by reefatoon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, reefatoon said: Aye, but that was someone else’s post. You don’t seem to come out with conversation or discussion, you just randomly post a couple of snarky one liners that don’t offer anything. You completely misquoted what I said just so you could have a snidey little comment. Someone else pointed it out yesterday too. If you disagree, I am more than happy to listen to what you think about our coaching set up and how you feel it works and what they have shown to prove that point. Would be great to discuss things, but your childish one liners don’t really offer anything, which is a shame as you are better than that. I’ve posted my opinion on this topic plenty of times. It’s not snarky at all. I’m really not sure what people expect from Jones - he’s clearly a good coach, you can see the difference in that the players look like they know what they’re doing and he is with England. Pretty sure when it was trendy to like him there were a few vids of the players saying how much they enjoyed his sessions. He’s not a manager and from looking at some of his selections over the last two games he probably won’t be, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a good coach. Anyone that’s got the slightest knowledge of football would know after 8 days training he’s not going to change things a lot, especially after we’ve been well and truly Bruced, which, everyone knew would happen. He had two games, his responsibility was to preserve the goal difference and maybe got a couple of points for the next manager. If he’d have attacked Chelsea, who are clearly one of the best teams in Europe we would’ve been taken to the cleaners. The people responsible for this shit fest are Ashley, then Bruce. If I’m coming across snarky it’s because I can’t get my head around what people expected. If this is just the beginning of our new ownership and attitudes then you’d best take some melatonin for the next two seasons. Edited October 31, 2021 by Thomson Mouse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCormick Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 hours ago, PeepShow4life said: Yet we have the better players. Not sure I agree. They have the specific players for their playing style, with years of being coached in that system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Thomson Mouse said: I’ve posted my opinion on this topic plenty of times. It’s not snarky at all. I’m really not sure what people expect from Jones - he’s clearly a good coach, you can see the difference in that the players look like they know what they’re doing and he is with England. Pretty sure when it was trendy to like him there were a few vids of the players saying how much they enjoyed his sessions. He’s not a manager and from looking at some of his selections over the last two games he probably won’t be, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a good coach. Anyone that’s got the slightest knowledge of football would know after 8 days training he’s not going to change things a lot, especially after we’ve been well and truly Bruced, which, everyone knew would happen. He had two games, his responsibility was to preserve the goal difference and maybe got a couple of points for the next manager. If he’d have attacked Chelsea, who are clearly one of the best teams in Europe we would’ve been taken to the cleaners. The people responsible for this shit fest are Ashley, then Bruce. If I’m coming across snarky it’s because I can’t get my head around what people expected. If this is just the beginning of our new ownership and attitudes then you’d best take some melatonin for the next two seasons. For me, he has picked the exact same formation, pretty much the same baffling team and went with the same tactics. It’s not like being addicted to drugs, where they need weening off it slowly. It’s football, it can be changed straight away by changing the style. If his philosophy was different he would have put it straight into practice. For me it’s one of two things. Firstly, he either had a lot more say in our style and set up under Bruce or secondly, he thought the way Bruce played and set up was correct and should be carried on. Either way it’s a bit of a worry. The way we have been playing this season is horrific and has us winless and second bottom. It isn’t working and needs to change. He had his chance to come in and do that but we have carried on exactly the same as if Bruce was still here. I personally feel he has had an awful lot more to do with this style and set up we are currently persevering with and I just don’t see a class coach there at all. If he was, it wouldn’t have been us plucking him from a mid table championship club. We know he isn’t a manager, he knows he isn’t a manager (he proved that with his failings at Luton). I just don’t get the clamour from you for us to keep him no matter what. He hasn’t shown anything to prove that. Thanks for responding fully too, it’s much better to chat properly even if we do have massively different views on it. We don’t need to dig at each other for differing opinions. Edited October 31, 2021 by reefatoon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 It can’t be changed straight away though. This is the result of years of utter shite culminating in Bruce. Benitez took us down (thats not a go at him) and he’s a world class manager. Jones isn’t immune to criticism, I don’t agree with his team selections but the rest of what you post is what you ‘personally feel’, not factual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Thomson Mouse said: It can’t be changed straight away though. This is the result of years of utter shite culminating in Bruce. Benitez took us down (thats not a go at him) and he’s a world class manager. Jones isn’t immune to criticism, I don’t agree with his team selections but the rest of what you post is what you ‘personally feel’, not factual. Bruce also said it couldn’t be changed straight away when he took over from Benitez and everyone rightly slated him for it. It’s an excuse used from people who are incapable of changing things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, reefatoon said: Bruce also said it couldn’t be changed straight away when he took over from Benitez and everyone rightly slated him for it. It’s an excuse used from people who are incapable of changing things. Bruce used that excuse nearly until he was sacked. Didn’t hear Benitez whining on like him Edited October 31, 2021 by Thomson Mouse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Jones comments on Fed are really alarming. Is it so hard to say, "I select players how I see fit." Keep your mouth shut because comments like that come back and bite you in the arse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, Thomson Mouse said: Bruce used that excuse nearly until he was sacked. Didn’t hear Benitez whining on like him Benitez didn’t need to use that excuse because he has his own style that he implements and is class at what he does. You didn’t hear Benitez say things like that because he hasn’t got a loser mentality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, reefatoon said: Benitez didn’t need to use that excuse because he has his own style that he implements and is class at what he does. You didn’t hear Benitez say things like that because he hasn’t got a loser mentality. Yet were were relegated under him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Thomson Mouse said: Yet were were relegated under him? Wow, you blaming Benitez for our relegation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWN Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, Thomson Mouse said: Yet were were relegated under him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, reefatoon said: Wow, you blaming Benitez for our relegation? I already stated that I didn’t blame him. The point of this discussion was about how quickly things could be changed, I used a world class manager like Benitez in the context of our shell of a club that it couldn’t. Now who’s twisting things? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, GWN said: Read the other posts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 We need a new manager for Brighton. This guy in the dugout is just like Bruce never left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Just now, Thomson Mouse said: I already stated that I didn’t blame him. The point of this discussion was about how quickly things could be changed, I used a world class manager like Benitez in the context of our shell of a club that it couldn’t. Now who’s twisting things? But Benitez did change things as soon as he arrived. Our style instantly changed from the farce McLaren was serving up. It just so happened he was brought in far too late to keep us up. Surely you don’t think we were relegated because Benitez was still playing Mclarens style as there wasn’t enough time to change it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Thomson Mouse said: I already stated that I didn’t blame him. The point of this discussion was about how quickly things could be changed, I used a world class manager like Benitez in the context of our shell of a club that it couldn’t. Now who’s twisting things? We had a record of W3 D4 L3 under Rafa. It took him about 3/4 games but the turnaround was there. If Jones managed that in these 10 games we’ll probably stay up relatively easily. Was just a shame that Sunderland & Norwich were in those first 4 games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Just now, reefatoon said: But Benitez did change things as soon as he arrived. Our style instantly changed from the farce McLaren was serving up. It just so happened he was brought in far too late to keep us up. Surely you don’t think we were relegated because Benitez was still playing Mclarens style as there wasn’t enough time to change it? They didn’t change enough to keep us up which is entirely reasonable, yet you expect things to change from a coach in two games. Let’s just agree to disagree Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Optimistic Nut said: We had a record of W3 D4 L3 under Rafa. It took him about 3/4 games but the turnaround was there. If Jones managed that in these 10 games we’ll probably stay up relatively easily. Was just a shame that Sunderland & Norwich were in those first 4 games. There’s no way Jones could compete with Benitez, complete non-argument Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Thomson Mouse said: They didn’t change enough to keep us up which is entirely reasonable, yet you expect things to change from a coach in two games. Let’s just agree to disagree Results wise things probably wouldn’t change, but if he had no say and it was all Bruce, I was fully expecting something different in set up and style, but it’s been exactly the same as when Bruce was still here. When people talk about a new manager bounce, it’s not just because a new face is in the dugout, it’s also because something different has been done and said in training. It’s a change for the players and they respond differently. Sacking Bruce and then carrying on with his exact same shitty style to me just shows how much of a say his back room team had in it all. Full credit to him for stepping in and trying to hold the fort, but for me, this is his style, it doesn’t work, it’s not good enough and I think he should be let go with the rest of them once the new guy arrives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 whilst i dont agree with his starting line up, the tactics for the first hour were understandible. what wasnt was the fact that we went 0-1 down and he just kept the same formation and tactics. we would still probabaly have lost but we could of at least TRIED changing things. it was as though it was jones going for a 0-0 or nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitley mag Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) Be interesting to see if someone has a word in his ear after these last 2 games, if he is in charge against Brighton. Surely he must have had some regrets last night after that gutless team selection. Not buying all this cautious shite about being cut apart if you press the top teams high up the pitch. You only need to look at Palace and Brighton yesterday to see that even the top teams make mistakes when pressed. We’ve got the players to go there and have a right good go with the right selection such as the following. Dubravka Fernandez- Lascelles - Schar Manquillo Lewis Willock Longstaff St Max Wilson Almiron Edited October 31, 2021 by Whitley mag Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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