Joe Willock

[The Prophet]

Peak Willock was decent. Press resident, lovely burst of pace and dangerous on the break.

 

He's not really had a look in since his injury, due to the form of Gordon. He's not set the world alight in his sub appearances, but I'm reluctant to write him off without regular first team football.

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Peak Willock was decent. Press resident, lovely burst of pace and dangerous on the break.

 

He's not really had a look in since his injury, due to the form of Gordon. He's not set the world alight in his sub appearances, but I'm reluctant to write him off without regular first team football.

Yeah but as I said earlier, that form was on the left side of our front three. Would you seriously put him in there ahead of Gordon or Barnes? Look back at the stats of the 22/23 season, we were massively reliant on Trippier and Miggy on the right for goals and assists, as Willock didn’t really create or score enough. Was that mitigated in some fashion by him having Burn behind him? Maybe, but Gordon massively outperformed him in similar circumstances last year.

[The Prophet]

13 minutes ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said:

Yeah but as I said earlier, that form was on the left side of our front three. Would you seriously put him in there ahead of Gordon or Barnes? Look back at the stats of the 22/23 season, we were massively reliant on Trippier and Miggy on the right for goals and assists, as Willock didn’t really create or score enough. Was that mitigated in some fashion by him having Burn behind him? Maybe, but Gordon massively outperformed him in similar circumstances last year.

 

He started LCM and interchanged with Big Joe. 

 

He needed to add more end product to his game, but he never really got the chance to kick on.

 

I know folk are absolutely repulsed by the idea of having a squad, but we're already short in CM. If we can get him back to anywhere near his best, he's a useful player.

 

 

Edited 11 hours ago by The Prophet

[nufcjmc]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

He started LCM and interchanged with Big Joe. 

 

He needed to add more end product, to his game, but he never really got the chance to kick on.

 

I know folk are absolutely repulsed by the idea of having a squad, but we're already short in CM. If we can get him back to anywhere near his best, he's a useful player.

He signed a 6 year deal I think in 2021 so by the summer he's 26 with 2 seasons left on his deal.  How long is he given to rediscover something? He's a saleable asset and a decent offer I am already at the sell rather than him getting a new deal he may have been unlucky with injury and not good enough to be displacing those starting over him that's just the life of an ever changing team and squad they don't all make it. 

[The Prophet]

Just now, nufcjmc said:

He signed a 6 year deal I think in 2021 so by the summer he's 26 with 2 seasons left on his deal.  How long is he given to rediscover something? He's a saleable asset and a decent offer I am already at the sell rather than him getting a new deal he may have been unlucky with injury and not good enough to be displacing those starting over him that's just the life of an ever changing team and squad they don't all make it. 

 

It's all relative though isn't it? Everyone is a sellable asset at the right price. I just wouldn't be actively looking to shift him.

[macphisto]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

He started LCM and interchanged with Big Joe. 

 

He needed to add more end product, to his game, but he never really got the chance to kick on.

 

I know folk are absolutely repulsed by the idea of having a squad, but we're already short in CM. If we can get him back to anywhere near his best, he's a useful player.

No one is against a squad, but this is where you'd want Mitchell to have an impact at the club. A lot of people have criticised the club for being poor sellers and in Willock we have an asset we could sell, for hopefully decent money, to then reinvest in new and better players with the aim of building the squad. 

 

When people say the club are bad at selling players, surely it's players like Willock they're referring to? We'll not get much for him after this summer as he'll be in the final year of his contract. 

[nufcjmc]

1 minute ago, The Prophet said:

 

It's all relative though isn't it? Everyone is a sellable asset at the right price. I just wouldn't be actively looking to shift him.

Not disagreeing with you but I think my point is we and the player are at a cross roads 26 is headed to peak age.

He's got 2 years left unless we or the player have an option for an extra year. We could see how it goes and it turns out like longstaff less and less time limited contract and so limited fee. Or we try and cash in now we can't wait forever to capture his electric form of 4 years ago we are a better side and the player has regressed.  If that's limited playing time or injury more strengthens my argument to see what we can get for him. 

 

 

[Mattoon]

It wasn't all that long ago people, myself included, were saying he was one of our best players and underrated. It's not all about creativity, but the ball for Isak was one of the best assists I've ever seen. Let's not forget how many times he turned the tide of a game on its head by carrying the ball up the other end and creating an attack from nothing.

 

A fit Willock, back to his best is still an asset to this team, people have short memories.

[The Prophet]

I have no idea what his contract situation is, but we already need a CM and the noises on Longstaff don't sound as though he'll be at the club much longer. Selling Willock on top of that would need us to sign up at least two extra bodies in the middle, on top of far more pressing positions. It'll leave us with far too much to do this summer.

 

We need a squad going into a season where we're going to be in EL minimum and we already have four other positions that are at greater need of strengthening.

[nufcjmc]

5 minutes ago, Mattoon said:

It wasn't all that long ago people, myself included, were saying he was one of our best players and underrated. It's not all about creativity, but the ball for Isak was one of the best assists I've ever seen. Let's not forget how many times he turned the tide of a game on its head by carrying the ball up the other end and creating an attack from nothing.

 

A fit Willock, back to his best is still an asset to this team, people have short memories.

Referring back to his stats 

 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/14446/Joe-Willock/stats

 

9 assists, 50% tackle rate 30odd% shooting accuracy aren't great. 

 

The assist from 2 years ago was sublime and wil be in highlight reels for years to come but is that what he's going to produce or an anomaly? Since then  it's looking like the outlier.

[nufcjmc]

4 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

I have no idea what his contract situation is, but we already need a CM and the noises on Longstaff don't sound as though he'll be at the club much longer. Selling Willock on top of that would need us to sign up at least two extra bodies in the middle, on top of far more pressing positions. It'll leave us with far too much to do this summer.

 

We need a squad going into a season where we're going to be in EL minimum and we already have four other positions that are at greater need of strengthening.

I know we shouldn't care but if we keep him how long does he get? If there are no Upturn in performances are you happy this version of willock getting an extension? If you are fine but if your thinking not then now is the time with 2 years left to sell if we can of course. 

 

If we have an option of a year and as you say longstaff goes then this can wait for another year and he gets more time to improve. 

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

34 minutes ago, Mattoon said:

It wasn't all that long ago people, myself included, were saying he was one of our best players and underrated. It's not all about creativity, but the ball for Isak was one of the best assists I've ever seen. Let's not forget how many times he turned the tide of a game on its head by carrying the ball up the other end and creating an attack from nothing.

 

A fit Willock, back to his best is still an asset to this team, people have short memories.

I don’t have a short memory, that was now two years ago and the team has evolved significantly, despite the relative lack of additions.
 

He was really effective in Howe's first full season as we weren't yet facing low blocks on a weekly basis. He isn’t effective when he doesn’t have space to run into, which is a situation we are going to face more and more going forwards.

 

BTW I’m not saying he's shit, I’m saying he is now 3rd choice left forward, not really technical enough for what we need as a central midfielder and his attributes aren’t well suited for the tactics we now routinely face.

[SUPERTOON]

59 minutes ago, Mattoon said:

It wasn't all that long ago people, myself included, were saying he was one of our best players and underrated. It's not all about creativity, but the ball for Isak was one of the best assists I've ever seen. Let's not forget how many times he turned the tide of a game on its head by carrying the ball up the other end and creating an attack from nothing.

 

A fit Willock, back to his best is still an asset to this team, people have short memories.

The issue is, he can’t get back to his best because he can’t stay fit.

[TRon]

6 hours ago, Geordie_once_removed said:

I see him or Longstaff being sold. I'd rather Longstaff as I feel Miley is a more natural and potentially significantly superior replacement.

 

Willock's issue is he needs games to show his best but he doesn't make our best starting lineup. I'd keep him as he will get more games next season with European football and while he is a bit of a square peg in our current system he could be a really useful player in a slightly different one and we really need to add rotation of players and systems to our game to move up to the next level, which I really believe we're on the verge of doing.

 

As others have said yesterday was a game that was really ill suited to his main assets which are fast transitions and stretching play. Imagine next year he gets 75 minutes in Europe midweek, so he's not rusty like now, then on the weekend with us drawing or even losing he comes on in a game that is getting stretched (or visa versa). He could be really valuable.

 

Also that assist, he can have magic in his boots.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't mind him being sold, I don't think it's worked out for him here, and his injuries have worked against him. But right now I'm happy he's still here as I don't really see the other options to replace Joelinton unless we change our formation.

[RobsonsWonderland]

Willocks peak has him bursting through the lines or running into the box...

 

It's hard to do that when we play 16 passes around the edge of the box and try a failed cut back 90 percent of the time.

[alexf]

Alot of Joe's game was about his athleticism, compared to say someone like Bruno who is the opposite. 

 

But abit like Saint-Maximin, when you have one to many injuries and you lose abit of that explosive running power, it can really disrupt players who relied on it. Maxi needed that burst of speed to be effective, once he lost a yard he becomes some one just doing step overs but couldn't go past defenders as easily as he once did. 

 

Joe is similar he had a really bad hamstring injury and then also the achilles issues, which from my own personal experience, massively plays on your mind and also effects your ability to sprint and play like you once did. 

 

I'm not saying Willock is finished, but he looks like a player who has lost abit of what made him effective and doesn't have enough other attributes to make up for it. I hope I'm wrong and with a run of games he can find his rhythm again.

[jackflap]

Would take 20m for him, he has some great attributes and could thrive in the right system but don't see it happening here, like Longstaff think he's the type of player that needs a run of games, can be scruffy on the ball.

 

Himself and Joelinton dovetailing on the left was one of my favourite things about 2 seasons ago but not likely to see that with Gordon and Barnes in situ.

 

Too breezy and streaky a player for Howe in general IMO, lacks aggression and decisiveness, the header he missed against Brighton being a prime example.

[macphisto]

I'd definitely sell him but if it's decided to keep him then I'd give him a new contract if his current one runs out in 2027. 

 

One thing we can not do with PSR is risk a saleable asset under 30 years old leave on a free in a few years time. Situation changes a lot once you get into the final 12 months of a contract which is why this summer is so important regarding Willock.