Group D (Croatia, Czech Republic, England, Scotland)

[Cronky]

I'm interested to see who Southgate plays if he goes for a 4-2-3-1, which looks the most comfortable fit. 

Assuming he'll go for Henderson-Rice in the centre (though I'd pick JWP), and Kane up front, I'm wondering who he'll go for in the attacking three. Grealish, Mount and Foden seem to pick themselves, but will he have the nerve to drop Rashford, who he's previously favoured?

For me, Rashford needs space where he can use his pace, but you don't get much room at the top level. When he has to operate in confined spaces, he makes poor decisions and usually loses the ball. 

On another issue, I've yet to see Sancho have a good game. Presumably it must have happened a few times, and I've missed them.

[rgk_lfc]

34 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

I didn't see today's game but it's good that we've picked up two wins without conceding despite not playing well in either of them. I can't speak for today but I honestly don't think the Austria one was any sort of barometer. Rustiness, unfamiliar team, people booing tolerance, an opponent flying into tackles like their future depended in it... 

I wouldn't be aghast if we had a poor tournament because it would be utterly typical, especially for us, when we're all dying for a sweet tonic like a good England run to cleanse us from Bruceball. And if that happens Southgate will be rightly criticised and promptly jettisoned. But I've got loads of confidence that we'll do well and that these friendlies are no indication of performances to come. 

But did England really learn anything from the two friendlies.

- England have solid technical players in most positions who are capable of playing at a high level.

- There is no semblance of plan or tactics which will elevate this group to playing beyond the sum of their parts.

- The quality is good enough to get past teams like Austria etc.

- The lack of tactics and coherent plan and the lack of an elite attacking player like Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Messi to overcome tactical deficiency means England will be in trouble when they face the first decent team with attacking threats. 

I have watched England for 20 years and you could say the same about any team in that period. Not quite sure what these "trying" out players for the national team really does. Players who play amazing for the club suddenly look bad for the national team because of the shirt? Luis Aragones dropped the captain Raul from the Spain squad because he did not fit into his vision of football which set the tone for their domination starting in 2008. 

[Disco]

Watching Portugal, France and now England move towards the Italian model of playing international football as they themselves are seemingly moving a little away from it is quite interesting to see. 

Add Belgium, Spain and maybe even Germany and it’s shaping up for an excellent tournament all things considered.

[Yorkie]

1 hour ago, rgk_lfc said:

But did England really learn anything from the two friendlies

What, realistically, could they have learned? Most of the first choice team weren't even available. 

Southgate, to me, comes across as someone who puts a massive amount of value in 'the group'; i.e. the mentality and the bonding and the general sense of togetherness - players wanting to be with each other and wanting to go through walls for one another. The camp in Teesside itself has been just as, if not more, important than the matches. That's why he wants the likes of Lingard sticking around and is rewarding him with caps; he's obviously a popular member of the group so wants him around despite him not making the final cut. I think it's a really pragmatic and mature approach, and massive kudos to Lingard himself; but again, it's reflective of a group that obviously respects the boss.

Historically the England squads have always had factions and splinters and lads not bonding with each other at all. Gruelling, miserable camps as recently as 2010 under Capello; attitudes which become very much reflected in the games. Southgate having first-hand experience of what doesn't work off the pitch during these tournaments is a big plus, and it's clearly one of his things. 

[rgk_lfc]

21 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

What, realistically, could they have learned? Most of the first choice team weren't even available. 

Southgate, to me, comes across as someone who puts a massive amount of value in 'the group'; i.e. the mentality and the bonding and the general sense of togetherness - players wanting to be with each other and wanting to go through walls for one another. The camp in Teesside itself has been just as, if not more, important than the matches. That's why he wants the likes of Lingard sticking around and is rewarding him with caps; he's obviously a popular member of the group so wants him around despite him not making the final cut. I think it's a really pragmatic and mature approach, and massive kudos to Lingard himself; but again, it's reflective of a group that obviously respects the boss.

Historically the England squads have always had factions and splinters and lads not bonding with each other at all. Gruelling, miserable camps as recently as 2010 under Capello; attitudes which become very much reflected in the games. Southgate having first-hand experience of what doesn't work off the pitch during these tournaments is a big plus, and it's clearly one of his things. 

I had not thought of the factions and splinters aspect. Agree with you on that.

 

[Yorkie]

He strikes me as a manager who plays to his strengths and surrounds himself with others to fill the gaps. He'd probably admit that he's not the greatest tactician, which probably at least partially explains the appointment of a coach whose recently made a name for his tactical acumen.

I'm a huge fan, basically, I think he's great. 

[Yorkie]

Urgh this wank about "pulling rank" on the pen. Desperate to stir. . It was nothing. Henderson fancied taking it and DCL said go on then. 

[Away Day Gadgie]

I didn’t watch the game but just watched the highlights.  Not sure if it’s just how it was edited but Henderson’s interview - fucking hell!   “Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me… And let’s talk about Me a little more!”

Does he think he’s indispensable or something?  He struggles to get in the side given his injury and the other options available in my eyes.  

By the way i actually like him as a captain and a player, and i don’t give a fuck about the penalty.  But he came across as a bit of knob tonight i thought.

[ToonArmy1892]

1 hour ago, Away Day Gadgie said:

I didn’t watch the game but just watched the highlights.  Not sure if it’s just how it was edited but Henderson’s interview - fucking hell!   “Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me… And let’s talk about Me a little more!”

Does he think he’s indispensable or something?  He struggles to get in the side given his injury and the other options available in my eyes.  

By the way i actually like him as a captain and a player, and i don’t give a fuck about the penalty.  But he came across as a bit of knob tonight i thought.

Mackem kernt innit.

[Guest]

I’m leaning towards Ward-Prowse and Rice as the midfield two now.

[Candi_Hills]

Sickened me hearing the millionaire celebrities at half-time say the fans are too thick to understand why the knee is being taken. How dare the peasants have an opinion!

[Guest]

The booing is pathetic.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, midds said:

Something about Grealish I really don't like. Not knocking his talent or ability, he's excellent on the ball, but just the way he reacts to challenges and plays the game. He's clearly not used to referees who don't know who he is not giving him free-kicks automatically. He's been used to English refs giving him just about everything despite him diving all over the shop and collapsing at will as soon as he feels contact but new refs don't realise he gets this privilege automatically and tell him to just play on. Whenever he doesn't get what he thinks he's entitled to he jumps up and snarls like fuck, I absolutely fucking hate it.

Have to say he does get fouled legitimately a lot but the constant collapsing does my head in. Zaha isn't far behind either tbh. And Almiron if I'm being honest. 

Agree. Good player but can’t stand him. The way he turns to the ref after every tackle even if it’s a good one, with his arms in the air. Hate it.

[Away Day Gadgie]

1 hour ago, Optimistic Nut said:

I’m leaning towards Ward-Prowse and Rice as the midfield two now.

That looks like a good pair to me.  Ward-Prowse adds a completely different set of tools to our midfield.  

[Cronky]

8 hours ago, Yorkie said:

Urgh this wank about "pulling rank" on the pen. Desperate to stir. . It was nothing. Henderson fancied taking it and DCL said go on then. 

I'm not so sure. It looks to me very unprofessional when there's some sort of debate about who should take a penalty. That should be decided before the game, and unless there are exceptional circumstances, such as a team being 5-0 up, the team should stick with that decision. Last night, the game was still in the balance, and Henderson wanted the penalty because he'd never scored for England before. So ego came before the team.

It wasn't as bad a situation as when you see players grappling for the ball like kids in a playground, but it's the same syndrome. And asking Calvert-Lewin if it was okay doesn't excuse Henderson, because he's the captain and Calvert-Lewin is a rookie who isn't in a good position to say no.

[Candi_Hills]

20 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

The booing is pathetic.

It's spot on in my opinion.

1. Why bring politics into football? Why force a political position on people? A cursory glance round the internet tells you 50% of people don't support BLM, including some black people.

2. What is the BLM issue? Police violence? The general plight of blacks in the US? In either case, it's an overseas issue. Why is a knee for black Americans any more warranted than a knee for the Uighurs or a knee for Palestinian kids? How about an issue closer to home? A knee 20,000 white girls raped by Pakistani gangs?

3. The BLM claim is that blacks are killed at a disproportionate rate to whites by police in the US. On the face of it, the claim is true. More whites are killed by police in the US in terms of raw numbers but blacks are overrepresented because they only make up 14% of the population or whatever it is. This doesn't take into account how much crime blacks are responsible for and how much more likely they are to have an engagement with an officer in the first place. When crime rates are accounted for, the picture starts to balance itself out. And that's just police violence. If we look at interracial violence more generally, a black person is 25 times more likely to kill a white than the other way round. 25 times! And this is not black v white thing either. You can listen to black people on youtube saying the same things I've just said.

I asked some rhetorical questions above. In fact, I know the answers to all of the those questions but I'll leave it there. I wish politics and football were separate.

[joeyt]

Ben White replacing Trent

[joeyt]

11 minutes ago, Candi_Hills said:

It's spot on in my opinion.

1. Why bring politics into football? Why force a political position on people? A cursory glance round the internet tells you 50% of people don't support BLM, including some black people.

2. What is the BLM issue? Police violence? The general plight of blacks in the US? In either case, it's an overseas issue. Why is a knee for black Americans any more warranted than a knee for the Uighurs or a knee for Palestinian kids? How about an issue closer to home? A knee 20,000 white girls raped by Pakistani gangs?

3. The BLM claim is that blacks are killed at a disproportionate rate to whites by police in the US. On the face of it, the claim is true. More whites are killed by police in the US in terms of raw numbers but blacks are overrepresented because they only make up 14% of the population or whatever it is. This doesn't take into account how much crime blacks are responsible for and how much more likely they are to have an engagement with an officer in the first place. When crime rates are accounted for, the picture starts to balance itself out. And that's just police violence. If we look at interracial violence more generally, a black person is 25 times more likely to kill a white than the other way round. 25 times! And this is not black v white thing either. You can listen to black people on youtube saying the same things I've just said.

I asked some rhetorical questions above. In fact, I know the answers to all of the those questions but I'll leave it there. I wish politics and football were separate.

[joeyt]

What an absolutely dreadful post man. Thankfully doesn't represent the views of this forum.

Take that drivel to RTG

[Candi_Hills]

3 minutes ago, joeyt said:

What an absolutely dreadful post man. Thankfully doesn't represent the views of this forum.

Take that drivel to RTG

 Care to expand?

[alexf]

I read that post in Trump's voice ?

 

It was my understanding taking a knee was about more than just supporting BLM now anyway and about hate and discrimination of all kinds.

 

This isn't a political issue as you described, it is a societal issue. Football is a showcase to the world and to ignore the problems that exist would be wilfully negligent. 

 

[Candi_Hills]

3 minutes ago, alexf said:

I read that post in Trump's voice ?

 

It was my understanding taking a knee was about more than just supporting BLM now anyway and about hate and discrimination of all kinds.

 

This isn't a political issue as you described, it is a societal issue. Football is a showcase to the world and to ignore the problems that exist would be wilfully negligent. 

 

Thanks for replying with more than an emoji.  And I'm not a Trump fan, so no need for his voice.

Your second line there is somewhat correct. The media did start putting a different spin on it, although BLM and the whole knee thing at its inception was never about ending discrimination of all kinds. It was a very deliberate shift by the media to try and make it more palatable / relevant to British audiences.

And I'll have to disagree with your 3rd line. I could be sympathetic to a million politcal and societal issues but I don't want them crossing over into football. Everything has politics injected into it now and politics (and societal issues) are divisive always. I want football to be an escape.

[Dancing Brave]

43 minutes ago, joeyt said:

Ben White replacing Trent

Looks like it's 3 at the back then. I'd rather he took Ward-Prowse instead, but Ben White is a great player.

[Dancing Brave]

Updated squad

 

[Ben]

13 minutes ago, Dancing Brave said:

Looks like it's 3 at the back then. I'd rather he took Ward-Prowse instead, but Ben White is a great player.

He must have serious doubts over Maguire