Dancing Brave Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Ben said: He must have serious doubts over Maguire Yes i think so. I can't understand taking a player who isn't 100% fit. A bit of a gamble from Southgate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Just now, Dancing Brave said: Yes i think so. I can't understand taking a player who isn't 100% fit. A bit of a gamble from Southgate. I would normally twist and complain about it but with a 26 man squad and the ability to change players right up to the tournament kick off I can see why it's probably worth the risk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancing Brave Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Ben said: I would normally twist and complain about it but with a 26 man squad and the ability to change players right up to the tournament kick off I can see why it's probably worth the risk Yeah fair enough, but if it does backfire against him he will be slaughtered by the press. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 37 minutes ago, Candi_Hills said: Thanks for replying with more than an emoji. And I'm not a Trump fan, so no need for his voice. Your second line there is somewhat correct. The media did start putting a different spin on it, although BLM and the whole knee thing at its inception was never about ending discrimination of all kinds. It was a very deliberate shift by the media to try and make it more palatable / relevant to British audiences. And I'll have to disagree with your 3rd line. I could be sympathetic to a million politcal and societal issues but I don't want them crossing over into football. Everything has politics injected into it now and politics (and societal issues) are divisive always. I want football to be an escape. I think there's something a bit unhelpful* about how BLM basically has two definitions: one being a slogan that can be used by anyone in any context to highlight and demonstrate against racial inequality, the other being the title of an organised political movement, who (among other anti-racist activities) protest against police brutality towards black people. *purely because it results in dimwits getting offended about 'politics in football', missing the point, and ultimately booing I bet if you asked most players about why they take the knee, they'd say it has nothing to do with representing an established and structured political movement, and everything to do with highlighting the fact that racism exists and making a visible and unified statement against racial inequality. Is 'BLM' even referenced in any way when players take the knee these days? Taking the knee is an anti-racism statement, not a political one, as far as I can tell, and literally the only reasonable reaction is to applaud it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candi_Hills Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, Yorkie said: I think there's something a bit unhelpful* about how BLM basically has two definitions: one being a slogan that can be used by anyone in any context to highlight and demonstrate against racial inequality, the other being the title of an organised political movement, who (among other anti-racist activities) protest against police brutality towards black people. *purely because it results in dimwits getting offended about 'politics in football', missing the point, and ultimately booing I bet if you asked most players about why they take the knee, they'd say it has nothing to do with representing an established and structured political movement, and everything to do with highlighting the fact that racism exists and making a visible and unified statement against racial inequality. Is 'BLM' even referenced in any way when players take the knee these days? It's an anti-racism statement, not a political one, as far as I can tell, and literally the only reasonable reaction is to applaud it. Thanks for taking the time to write a reasonable reply. I knew most on here wouldn't agree with me. Most players take the knee because they're told to. They just want to pick up their money and not get in trouble. You have to go a bit out of your way to get an intelligent anti-BLM/knee take and I can't imagine many footballers are binging political content on youtube. "Is BLM even referenced when players take the knee these days?" It was originally. The BLM slogans were everywhere but then the media gradually shifted the message to a one about equality. It was very cleverly done and not organic. I don't want to derail the thread with a full debate but it's very much a political issue I see it and certainly not as simple as being a grassroots challenge to racism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Candi_Hills said: Sickened me hearing the millionaire celebrities at half-time say the fans are too thick to understand why the knee is being taken. How dare the peasants have an opinion! The players and Gareth Southgate couldn't have been clearer on what their message stands for, and yet you still deliberately mischaracterise it and complain about millionaire celebrities trying to explain it. "Keep politics out of football!" is such a vapid statement. It means nothing. Sport is expressly political, even moreso at international level. They sing the fucking national anthem before kick off! England fans have been travelling across the world singing "2 World Wars and 1 World Cup" and "No Surrender to the IRA" for the last 40 years, and now these people think football should remain apolitical. Marcus Rashford receives thousands of racist messages every time he puts a shot wide but he's the one forcing his politics on another people. Give me a fucking break. It just translates directly as "Keep the politics I dislike out of football". They/you disagree with their generic anti-racism stance, that's fine, quite grim but whatever. But don't weasely try to dress it up as anything else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 31 minutes ago, Candi_Hills said: Most players take the knee because they're told to. They just want to pick up their money and not get in trouble. What's that based on? Nowt, I imagine. It was the PL club captains themselves who decided to put BLM on the backs of the shirts, for instance. 33 minutes ago, Candi_Hills said: "is BLM even referenced when players take the knee these days?" It was originally. No, then. I think there's a conversation being had behind the scenes about whether to continue taking the knee, and I think that's a good thing - but because of how it's being absorbed into the pre-match routine and therefore its effect is diminishing, and something else/real action is needed. It's unbelievably frustrating that it might be on the way out just as the stupid 'politics in football' (yeah right) agenda against it is ramping up and gaining traction, so audibly and visibly at England games. I'd hate for those people to consider it a victory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimburst Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 BLM is literally a grassroots response to racism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candi_Hills Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, Wullie said: The players and Gareth Southgate couldn't have been clearer on what their message stands for, and yet you still deliberately mischaracterise it and complain about millionaire celebrities trying to explain it. "Keep politics out of football!" is such a vapid statement. It means nothing. Sport is expressly political, even moreso at international level. They sing the fucking national anthem before kick off! England fans have been travelling across the world singing "2 World Wars and 1 World Cup" and "No Surrender to the IRA" for the last 40 years, and now these people think football should remain apolitical. Marcus Rashford receives thousands of racist messages every time he puts a shot wide but he's the one forcing his politics on another people. Give me a fucking break. It just translates directly as "Keep the politics I dislike out of football". They/you disagree with their generic anti-racism stance, that's fine, quite grim but whatever. But don't weasely try to dress it up as anything else. Efforts were always made in the past to keep politics out of football. Players were never allowed to make salutes or reveal t-shirts and suchlike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Anyway, I think a CB replacing Trent, as opposed to a CM, indicates that Southgate ideally wants to go 3 at the back. Interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, Wullie said: The players and Gareth Southgate couldn't have been clearer on what their message stands for, and yet you still deliberately mischaracterise it and complain about millionaire celebrities trying to explain it. "Keep politics out of football!" is such a vapid statement. It means nothing. Sport is expressly political, even moreso at international level. They sing the fucking national anthem before kick off! England fans have been travelling across the world singing "2 World Wars and 1 World Cup" and "No Surrender to the IRA" for the last 40 years, and now these people think football should remain apolitical. Marcus Rashford receives thousands of racist messages every time he puts a shot wide but he's the one forcing his politics on another people. Give me a fucking break. It just translates directly as "Keep the politics I dislike out of football". They/you disagree with their generic anti-racism stance, that's fine, quite grim but whatever. But don't weasely try to dress it up as anything else. The same idiots will be first to sing Rule Brittania, boo others’ national anthems and throw chairs and beer over people and trash cities and towns. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Candi_Hills said: Efforts were always made in the past to keep politics out of football. Players were never allowed to make salutes or reveal t-shirts and suchlike. This isn’t politics though, it’s about discrimination, racism and equality. And it’s specifically not really about the BLM movement, which I’ve never subscribed to personally as a movement, but I do subscribe to the message of Black Lives Matter, of anti discrimination, of tolerance, of zero racism etc. and that’s what taking the knee means to me and why I support all players taking the knee. Edited June 7, 2021 by HTT II Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) Should we keep KICK IT OUT/SHOW RACISM THE RED CARD from the game incase it’s politics? No we fucking shouldn’t. It amazing how so many people are easily offended by someone/players taking a stand (or a knee) against something that is so fucking right, basically no to racism and no to discrimination at any level. In sport, society, in every fucking way. Utter fucking morons the lot of them and a waste of lungs… Edited June 7, 2021 by HTT II Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Just now, Candi_Hills said: Efforts were always made in the past to keep politics out of football. Players were never allowed to make salutes or reveal t-shirts and suchlike. This is just utter bollocks though. Disingenuous crap. Kick It Out have worked with the Premier League since 1993. Here's Shola Ameobi wearing a "political" shirt in the warm up and he's been retired five years. Anti-racism is only "political" if you disagree with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Wullie said: This is just utter bollocks though. Disingenuous crap. Kick It Out have worked with the Premier League since 1993. Here's Shola Ameobi wearing a "political" shirt in the warm up and he's been retired five years. Anti-racism is only "political" if you disagree with it. I can’t remember anyone making a fuss about how those campaigns were bringing politics into football, but when a player takes the knee though, well that’s just not cricket… fucking bunch of unhinged seriously warped individuals who boo something like this. Edited June 7, 2021 by HTT II Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Wullie said: This is just utter bollocks though. Disingenuous crap. Kick It Out have worked with the Premier League since 1993. Here's Shola Ameobi wearing a "political" shirt in the warm up and he's been retired five years. Anti-racism is only "political" if you disagree with it. That's a terrible logo mind, looks like a betting ad. Or maybe I'm just so used to seeing betting logos on shirts that I just assume everything is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, Yorkie said: Anyway, I think a CB replacing Trent, as opposed to a CM, indicates that Southgate ideally wants to go 3 at the back. Interesting. Keep football out of politics will you… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candi_Hills Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Jimburst said: BLM is literally a grassroots response to racism. It's anything but grassroots. The fact that every arm of power - government, media, the PL, private companies, Hollywood, schools - promotes it should tell you that it isn't. Everything about it from it's inception screamed 'corporate' and 'artifical'. BLM is the system. As for a "response to racism", it would be more accurate to say it's a response to a completely broken system, the result of decades of mass-immigration and throwing together different groups in order to satisfy capitalism's ever growing hunger for workers and consumers. The billionaire class have manipulated our countries so that the system can continue to grow and they can continue to get richer. Racial tensions are the societal fallout of capitalist greed and the system is working overtime to manage them. As Chomsky rightly concluded, capitalism is anti-racist. Tradition, religion, identity etc. are all obstacles to profit and they must be wiped out. All that matters is the dollar. The capitalist class don't give a shit about black lives (or any other lives) but they do need populations without an identity (racial, religious, national). Obviously, for the time being native white reactionaries are the biggest threat in Europe but that will change in the coming decades as demographics change. The BLM and anti-racist stuff is a pure capitalist propaganda measure as they seek to manipulate more and more countries at will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Mass immigration isn’t anything new. It’s the very foundations of our own little INGURLUND. I prefer to be able to freely move and live and work and go wherever I want in this world as it’s my world, not limited to me because someone thought it would be a good idea to give me some title as British or English or white, they are just ideas, and have no validity in reality as to who we are, and this world of ours. I wish we could just abolish such stupid concepts because that’s what holds us back. Am I white? I’d say I’m pinkish. Am I British? What because I was born here and who decided this isle is Britain and how does that hold any weight with anything? It doesn’t. Fuck that! These days when asked to put my nationality down on anything I say African… we all hail from ‘there’ originally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) I like the three CBs with wing-backs. We played our best football in the Premier League using that since the 11/12 season which was more about individual ability imo. Think it’s solid, slick, balanced and attacking when used correctly. we=NUFC not England sorry Edited June 7, 2021 by Optimistic Nut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimburst Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 39 minutes ago, Candi_Hills said: It's anything but grassroots. The fact that every arm of power - government, media, the PL, private companies, Hollywood, schools - promotes it should tell you that it isn't. Everything about it from it's inception screamed 'corporate' and 'artifical'. BLM is the system. As for a "response to racism", it would be more accurate to say it's a response to a completely broken system, the result of decades of mass-immigration and throwing together different groups in order to satisfy capitalism's ever growing hunger for workers and consumers. The billionaire class have manipulated our countries so that the system can continue to grow and they can continue to get richer. Racial tensions are the societal fallout of capitalist greed and the system is working overtime to manage them. As Chomsky rightly concluded, capitalism is anti-racist. Tradition, religion, identity etc. are all obstacles to profit and they must be wiped out. All that matters is the dollar. The capitalist class don't give a shit about black lives (or any other lives) but they do need populations without an identity (racial, religious, national). Obviously, for the time being native white reactionaries are the biggest threat in Europe but that will change in the coming decades as demographics change. The BLM and anti-racist stuff is a pure capitalist propaganda measure as they seek to manipulate more and more countries at The government in both the UK and US used violence and the weight of the law against BLM protesters, the media painted them in both countries as 'thugs' and 'rioters'. It's also patently obvious that it is a grassroots organisation. You know this though, you're just annoyed it's popular and doesn't align with your views. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 It couldn't be less intrusive as well. Kneeling down for as long as it takes for the ball to be retrieved to take a throw in. "Booooooo! They're shoving this down my throat!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Lest we forget, taking the knee was started by one fucking guy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Dancing Brave said: Looks like it's 3 at the back then. I'd rather he took Ward-Prowse instead, but Ben White is a great player. Yeah, I was hoping for JWP, but if there had been two places available, White would have been the other one. He seemed to handle the extra pressure of international football without nerves, which is essential for a CB in particular. He also looked like he had the confidence to bring the ball out of defence and pass rather than hoof it or knock it sideways. It also brings our CB contingent up to four - Walker looked very shaky as a CB in the last tournament. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papavasiliou Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Candi_Hills said: Most players take the knee because they're told to. They just want to pick up their money and not get in trouble. Ah, you're talking about the white ones that haven't ever had to deal with these issues? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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