PIF and RB Sports & Media

[Colos Short and Curlies]

9 minutes ago, FloydianMag said:

There are geo political reasons for that though.

Yeah I know that, but it does mean that there is a chance (yes very remote today) that SA clubs could play in uefa competitions 

[SAK]

What’s with her saying we weren’t a big club? Hopefully she doesn’t believe that.

[gbandit]

That comment about Bruce man, he has absolutely no shame like. I don’t think there’s anything he wouldn’t say to try and make himself out to be the victim / the good guy fighting against the odds 

[huss9]

there were strories of players turning up for training during the  international breaks and bruce having fucked off on holiday without telling them.

[Likelylad]

He was just waiting for that payoff the useless fat pig. 

[timeEd32]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The Champions League money lands this season, adidas next season.  The annual 40% growth isn’t a thing - that doesn’t just appear - that was partially through league placing, partially through new deals.  There are no new deals, and we’re unlikely to finish 4th.

 

The club’s income will be just under £300m. 

 

I think it will easily clear £300m. This is admittedly fuzzy in places, but...

 

£250m as starting point from last season

 

- £9m in lower merit payment if we finish 7th

- £3m from player sales

 

+ £25m from Sela

+ £37m from CL (this number is from the club; I'm assuming it includes the extra matchday revenue for 3 home games)

+ £28m from player sales (Maxi and Wood; being conservative and just taking the post-amortisation profit on Wood)

+ £6m from Amazon doc (Don't totally know where he got this but Swiss Ramble mentioned £10m for this and Saudi friendlies so I made up a #)

 

Calling Fender / Saudi friendlies / England friendly / Summer Series a wash, though it may be another + for 23/24

 

That's roughly £334. Even if you take out the player sales and deduct a bit more for whatever reasons we're at £300m.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

58 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

I think it will easily clear £300m. This is admittedly fuzzy in places, but...

 

£250m as starting point from last season

 

- £9m in lower merit payment if we finish 7th

- £3m from player sales

 

+ £25m from Sela

+ £37m from CL (this number is from the club; I'm assuming it includes the extra matchday revenue for 3 home games)

+ £28m from player sales (Maxi and Wood; being conservative and just taking the post-amortisation profit on Wood)

+ £6m from Amazon doc (Don't totally know where he got this but Swiss Ramble mentioned £10m for this and Saudi friendlies so I made up a #)

 

Calling Fender / Saudi friendlies / England friendly / Summer Series a wash, though it may be another + for 23/24

 

That's roughly £334. Even if you take out the player sales and deduct a bit more for whatever reasons we're at £300m.

isn’t the £3m on top of the £250m income? It’s a separate P&L line.

 

so you also take out the £28m from player sales this year to get you £306m.

 

if we get past city in the cup then there’s another £2m from the cup run against virtually nothing from the carabao run last year.

 

so I get us £310m minimum before any player trading but I think that will be a little pessimistic 

[timeEd32]

Yeah I did wonder if @TheBrownBottle was excluding player sales, which is why I hedged at the end.

 

But ultimately that delineation is meaningless - all of the regulations are based on revenue + sales. The most helpful part of separating them is the fact that sales are the most volatile of revenue streams.

[manorpark]

2 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The Champions League money lands this season, adidas next season.  The annual 40% growth isn’t a thing - that doesn’t just appear - that was partially through league placing, partially through new deals.  There are no new deals, and we’re unlikely to finish 4th.

 

The club’s income will be just under £300m. 

 

I hope you are wrong, but we will have to wait and see what the June 2024 Annual Accounts say.

[Nobody]

1 hour ago, SAK said:

What’s with her saying we weren’t a big club? Hopefully she doesn’t believe that.

I can't think of a single metric that made us a big club under Ashley. 

[r0cafella]

I know we all like Amanda and dislike Bruce but I imagine he will be on the phone to his lawyers given her comments about him

[Dr Jinx]

11 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

I know we all like Amanda and dislike Bruce but I imagine he will be on the phone to his lawyers given her comments about him

She did say “a coach”.. like it was implied that it was Steve Bruce but she chose her words very carefully.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, timeEd32 said:

Yeah I did wonder if @TheBrownBottle was excluding player sales, which is why I hedged at the end.

 

But ultimately that delineation is meaningless - all of the regulations are based on revenue + sales. The most helpful part of separating them is the fact that sales are the most volatile of revenue streams.

Yeah, I was excluded player sales.  It’s tricky because as you’ve said, that’s the ‘known unknown’ of football finances - you know you can / will sell, but there’s little cost certainty 

[r0cafella]

Btw, we’ve had great revenue growth since the takeover but over the next few years I expect them to slow a lot. 

[McDog]

40 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

I know we all like Amanda and dislike Bruce but I imagine he will be on the phone to his lawyers given her comments about him

 

 

I would guess there are plenty of people who would confirm her comments in a court of law though. Even Graham Jones. "We did fuck all during the week".

[TheBrownBottle]

22 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Btw, we’ve had great revenue growth since the takeover but over the next few years I expect them to slow a lot. 

At present, I’d say we’re running out of headroom.  There’s some low-hanging fruit still available, but after that we look knackered at the moment.  I can’t foresee circumstances where our revenues go past £350m without something really significant happening - which would leave us at about 60% of Spurs’ income.

[Nobody]

10 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

At present, I’d say we’re running out of headroom.  There’s some low-hanging fruit still available, but after that we look knackered at the moment.  I can’t foresee circumstances where our revenues go past £350m without something really significant happening - which would leave us at about 60% of Spurs’ income.

How fucking sad is that though? We were ok par with Spurs before Ashley, now we can at best get up to 60% of their income

[et tu brute]

We will have the new fan-zone (open all week), training kit sponsorship, training ground sponsorship, stadium stands/stadium sponsorship and I'm sure quite a few other sponsorship/commercial deals which will happen. I honestly think it's a load of shit that some are thinking revenue steams will slow down. They won't. The owners are playing a very clever game of drip feeding things yearly to avoid any major scrutiny from the clubs desperate to try and stop our advancement and of course the southern media.

 

 

Edited March 8 by et tu brute

[r0cafella]

53 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

At present, I’d say we’re running out of headroom.  There’s some low-hanging fruit still available, but after that we look knackered at the moment.  I can’t foresee circumstances where our revenues go past £350m without something really significant happening - which would leave us at about 60% of Spurs’ income.

And this is the key point I’ve been driving at, we are about way off budget wise and in the league money wins every time, it’s why I’ve been wondering how they will square that circle  

[TheBrownBottle]

49 minutes ago, et tu brute said:

We will have the new fan-zone (open all week), training kit sponsorship, training ground sponsorship, stadium stands/stadium sponsorship and I'm sure quite a few other sponsorship/commercial deals which will happen. I honestly think it's a load of shit that some are thinking revenue steams will slow down. They won't. The owners are playing a very clever game of drip feeding things yearly to avoid any major scrutiny from the clubs desperate to try and stop our advancement and of course the southern media.

 

 

 

The adidas deal is a five-year one.  Fan zones and training ground sponsorships won’t put a dent in the quarter of a billion difference between us and Spurs.  I can guarantee that next season’s accounts, like this season’s when they’re produced, will not show anything close to the growth in 22/23. 
 

I’m not convinced that this is a clever game - the club needs a big state-of-the-art new stadium or I’d say we’re close to our ceiling at the moment, without something extraordinary being achieved on the pitch.  

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The adidas deal is a five-year one.  Fan zones and training ground sponsorships won’t put a dent in the quarter of a billion difference between us and Spurs.  I can guarantee that next season’s accounts, like this season’s when they’re produced, will not show anything close to the growth in 22/23. 
 

I’m not convinced that this is a clever game - the club needs a big state-of-the-art new stadium or I’d say we’re close to our ceiling at the moment, without something extraordinary being achieved on the pitch.  

This is pretty much where I am. Ultimately the other clubs are also pushing to increase revenue which is why during the Ashley years the a chasm opened between us and the big 6. So in order to progress we have to close the gap which is difficult because we are limited by FFP. We are not allowed to invest into the business because of the rules    I know it’s repeated a lot but I truly can’t get over this. 
 

So basically we are left hoping for miracles, or we have to become the best traders in football to open up headroom, so when we sell a Bruno we need to find two more. 

[SAK]

3 hours ago, Nobody said:

I can't think of a single metric that made us a big club under Ashley. 

Would argue the support made us a big club as well as reputation (yes, not measurable) but even when we were shit we were one of the most televised teams.

[timeEd32]

I think it’s likely true that we can’t assume these revenue increases continue at pace. Not to diminish what’s been done so far, but it’s mostly a case of doing things a football club with any ambition in the 21st century should be doing. Easy wins so to speak.

 

I agree that revenue in the neighborhood of £350m not counting player sales or Europe may be a bit of a near term ceiling. With consistent European participation and a better sales pipeline we could be in the £400m range.

 

Beyond that is going to take some path to dramatically increase matchday revenue, consistent knockout CL football (which would be punching above our revenue), an insane transfer record both buying and selling, or some real commercial ingenuity. Or likely some combination of those things.

 

We are also trying to chase down a moving target as the pie keeps growing for the others. One of them (Chelsea) falling away would be tremendously helpful for a number of reasons. Not impossible and also not something we can count on yet.

 

As we’ve seen this season this isn’t going to be a straight line up. Patience will be required at various points assuming there aren’t any massive rule changes. But I also think much of the pessimism is still looking in too short of a time period. There’s a long game we’re playing and I think our owners mostly knew that’s what they were signing up for. 

[TheBrownBottle]

23 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

I think it’s likely true that we can’t assume these revenue increases continue at pace. Not to diminish what’s been done so far, but it’s mostly a case of doing things a football club with any ambition in the 21st century should be doing. Easy wins so to speak.

 

I agree that revenue in the neighborhood of £350m not counting player sales or Europe may be a bit of a near term ceiling. With consistent European participation and a better sales pipeline we could be in the £400m range.

 

Beyond that is going to take some path to dramatically increase matchday revenue, consistent knockout CL football (which would be punching above our revenue), an insane transfer record both buying and selling, or some real commercial ingenuity. Or likely some combination of those things.

 

We are also trying to chase down a moving target as the pie keeps growing for the others. One of them (Chelsea) falling away would be tremendously helpful for a number of reasons. Not impossible and also not something we can count on yet.

 

As we’ve seen this season this isn’t going to be a straight line up. Patience will be required at various points assuming there aren’t any massive rule changes. But I also think much of the pessimism is still looking in too short of a time period. There’s a long game we’re playing and I think our owners mostly knew that’s what they were signing up for. 

Yeah, agreed.

 

I think the short-to-medium term has to be to follow Spurs’ model - buy young, quality players with an eye to moving them on for megabucks.  The club already has an age policy in place for most transfers apparently, which suggests that we may well be going down that route.

 

There’ll be a few upset punters when they realise that this means the likelihood is that the likes of Bruno, Isak etc are as likely to be sold as not.  But it’s the only way to bridge the huge income gap in the immediate term.  

[Infatuation Junkie]

Everyone seems to have the right idea on what we need to do to at least start scraping by and getting closer to the big six with revenue,

 

What 99% don’t realise though is that it won’t happen.

 

Masters probably already has 20-30 brand spanking new rules up his sleeve that are ready to be implemented if we manage to slightly start competing.

 

PIF could quite possibly decide to pack up and fuck right off because no one in their right mind is going to sit for ten years with a new club then just as things start improving to become competitive. The line gets erased and the line gets drawn higher.

 

Masters will not stop. He won’t be beaten. He’s pissed we were taken over by them as he done everything to stop it. This is a personal vendetta. It won’t end well. He is pulling strings and is playing god within a very lucrative market.