The Merse Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 1 minute ago, Rafalove said: Think people are underestimating the way the political landscape can change. For sure our short and medium term interests are probably safe, but in the long term, we’re at risk from a chain of events that leads to the souring of relations between Saudi and the UK. Whilst this is a possibility it would take a monumental shift for both the UK and America to lose its most reliable ally in the middle East - even given the religious and cultural differences which don't align with modern western views Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, Rafalove said: Think people are underestimating the way the political landscape can change. For sure our short and medium term interests are probably safe, but in the long term, we’re at risk from a chain of events that leads to the souring of relations between Saudi and the UK. It’s not going to happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 1 minute ago, The Merse said: Whilst this is a possibility it would take a monumental shift for both the UK and America to lose its most reliable ally in the middle East - even given the religious and cultural differences which don't align with modern western views Cultural differences are minimal from a power base/political standing. The 3 nations like to meddle in other nations’ affairs, are pro war, are involved in human atrocities and support one another military. But Islam… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalove Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 18 minutes ago, HTT II said: It’s not going to happen. How can you be so confident? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 7 minutes ago, Rafalove said: How can you be so confident? Again, for one, how do you sanction a company that operates here in the U.K. who have invested in lots of companies, industries and such and even more globally? Secondly, SA are key allies of ours in the ME and always have been, their royal family are very pally with our own, then there is the oil and not to mention the billions of pounds traded between the two countries, it would be like every supermarket in the U.K. not stocking Coca Cola because we suddenly don’t like Trump or whoever. It’s not as simple as that of course, but to go from where we are with SA to where we’ve went with the Oligarchs and Russia would require thousands of events to happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Again, Abramovic is one individual, it’s easier to sanction a person over a company, one as diverse as PIF that has shares in so many British companies and many more globally, including key strategic companies that our own government/power base is invested in. The noise over Abramovic will die down once Chelsea are sold and with it any noise surrounding our owners. Sadly that means any noise over human atrocities, but then that’s not what any of this is or ever will be about… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalove Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 It wouldn’t like, it would just take the right type of politician. We nearly had that in 2017 with Corbyn. Not to discount the way geo political events can change or snowball very quickly. people always say “that could never happen”, and then it does. Ten years ago if you had said huge swathes of the north would vote Tory, you’d be told “no chance”. Same with Trump in 2015. The likes of Gordon Brown were equally dismissive of a potential financial collapse in early and mid 00’s. Same with Putin launching a full scale invasion of Ukraine. these events can snowball out of nowhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Spaceman Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 19 minutes ago, Rafalove said: It wouldn’t like, it would just take the right type of politician. We nearly had that in 2017 with Corbyn. Not to discount the way geo political events can change or snowball very quickly. people always say “that could never happen”, and then it does. Ten years ago if you had said huge swathes of the north would vote Tory, you’d be told “no chance”. Same with Trump in 2015. The likes of Gordon Brown were equally dismissive of a potential financial collapse in early and mid 00’s. Same with Putin launching a full scale invasion of Ukraine. these events can snowball out of nowhere. Corbyn was nowhere near tbh, he had every man and their dog out to stop him and he fell at the first hurdle. The same thing will happen the next time anyone with morals tries to get into number 10. There's a hell of a lot to unravel if you want to start looking into things like the UK's relationship with the likes of Saudi, almost too much for it to be possible any time soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awaymag Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 22 minutes ago, Rafalove said: It wouldn’t like, it would just take the right type of politician. We nearly had that in 2017 with Corbyn. Not to discount the way geo political events can change or snowball very quickly. people always say “that could never happen”, and then it does. Ten years ago if you had said huge swathes of the north would vote Tory, you’d be told “no chance”. Same with Trump in 2015. The likes of Gordon Brown were equally dismissive of a potential financial collapse in early and mid 00’s. Same with Putin launching a full scale invasion of Ukraine. these events can snowball out of nowhere. that's it then....pack up NUFC as at some point St James Park will be a lava pit. I aint waiting around for that, getting me all invested in the club again and they knew fine well, that the gallowgate was a raging inferno just waiting to happen. Bastards the lot of them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 43 minutes ago, Rafalove said: It wouldn’t like, it would just take the right type of politician. We nearly had that in 2017 with Corbyn. Not to discount the way geo political events can change or snowball very quickly. people always say “that could never happen”, and then it does. Ten years ago if you had said huge swathes of the north would vote Tory, you’d be told “no chance”. Same with Trump in 2015. The likes of Gordon Brown were equally dismissive of a potential financial collapse in early and mid 00’s. Same with Putin launching a full scale invasion of Ukraine. these events can snowball out of nowhere. Boris may be the PM, but he doesn’t make the rules/decisions/decides what’s what… there is not one single reason why our country would sanction PIF and sack off SA as an ally, not now or ever. Not one. People can bemoan their human atrocities and ask questions of their ownership of NUFC all they like, and til the cows come home, but they ain’t selling up, getting sanctioned or removed as some new PL moral crusade against dodgy owners, it’s too far gone for that. Bear in mind the FA and PL didn’t force Abramovic out, our government did and even then it was all about being seen to be doing something… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 48 minutes ago, Rafalove said: It wouldn’t like, it would just take the right type of politician. We nearly had that in 2017 with Corbyn. Not to discount the way geo political events can change or snowball very quickly. people always say “that could never happen”, and then it does. Ten years ago if you had said huge swathes of the north would vote Tory, you’d be told “no chance”. Same with Trump in 2015. The likes of Gordon Brown were equally dismissive of a potential financial collapse in early and mid 00’s. Same with Putin launching a full scale invasion of Ukraine. these events can snowball out of nowhere. The North has always voted Tory, it’s not some massive Labour strong hold, it’s mainly favoured Labour is all. Putin and Russia have never been an ally, they are deemed as the bad guys of Europe and always have been, even in WW2 we fought Germany, but favoured them over the Red Army. Saudi Arabia are our allies in the ME, they invest hundreds of billions here in our economy, PIF have shares in lots of our companies and globally from Uber to Disney to our very own football club, how do you sanction a legitimate business? We supply arms to them, are in a coalition with them against deemed enemies of the ME and with it the West. Honestly, it would take something unimaginable for our nation to sanction theirs, for the likes of PIF to be barred from trading/doing business in the U.K. and owning a football club. The Ukraine situation is something our nation and others will happily allow to play out and pretend to care about what’s happening, because really, they want a weakened Russia and sanctioning the likes of Abramovic is easier than hauling Putin over the coals and it also serves the self interests of others who are too weak or just can’t go after the real bad guys because they themselves are also the bad guys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 (edited) I think people are suffering a little from normalcy paradox a little. Yes there has been relative stability based on decades old ties with the ME but we’re dealing with a leader who has his own family under house arrest and radicalist versions of Islam either supported actively or exported within the region - seemingly desperate to diversify away from oil ahead of a massive climate reckoning and struggles for global resources. I wouldn’t like to say what would happen for certain as it would be folly one way or the other but it’s not fertile ground for even short term stability. Edited March 15, 2022 by Darth Crooks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 That said how we and and impotent government and political system react to all that is another conversation entirely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyn davies Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Would hate to going back to the Westwood's of this world, also not enough owners with big money to run clubs, premier league well out of the reach of run of the mill owners Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, wyn davies said: Would hate to going back to the Westwood's of this world, also not enough owners with big money to run clubs, premier league well out of the reach of run of the mill owners So the clubs would have to be run on a more sustainable footing ? I see nowt wrong there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Rafalove said: How can you be so confident? Because Iran is the common enemy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalidao Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 8 minutes ago, Darth Crooks said: I think people are suffering a little from normalcy paradox a little. Yes there has been relative stability based on decades old ties with the ME but we’re dealing with a leader who has his own family under house arrest and radicalist versions of Islam either supported actively or exported within the region - seemingly desperate to diversify away from oil ahead of a massive climate reckoning and struggles for global resources. I wouldn’t like to say what would happen for certain as it would be folly one way or the other but it’s not fertile ground for even short term stability. Imagine thinking MBS is supporting radical versions of Islam... lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 (edited) I don’t or don’t know for sure. But I know it’s there. That post was all about lack of certainty. Edited March 15, 2022 by Darth Crooks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Rafalove said: It wouldn’t like, it would just take the right type of politician. We nearly had that in 2017 with Corbyn. Not to discount the way geo political events can change or snowball very quickly. people always say “that could never happen”, and then it does. Ten years ago if you had said huge swathes of the north would vote Tory, you’d be told “no chance”. Same with Trump in 2015. The likes of Gordon Brown were equally dismissive of a potential financial collapse in early and mid 00’s. Same with Putin launching a full scale invasion of Ukraine. these events can snowball out of nowhere. I doubt Corbyn would go against UNITE trade union who are well represented at BAE systems. Difficult to be definite but a lot people could have forecasted that a politician like Corbyn would never be accepted by Northern working class communities. Obviously, things can change but that applies to relations with almost all countries so I wouldn't worry about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalidao Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Just now, Darth Crooks said: I don’t. But I know it’s there. That post was all about lack of certainty. MBS is considered as an "anti-christ" by both radical Sunni and Shiite islamists around the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 I defer to knowledge on matters Islamic old chum but there’s a lot more to that post than that. The crux of it was about growing global instability. I know that having leaders with family conflict in absolute monarchies at ideological odds with theocratic critics is fertile ground for revolution or a least civil unrest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalove Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 7 minutes ago, Khalidao said: MBS is considered as an "anti-christ" by both radical Sunni and Shiite islamists around the world. This is interesting. Can you elaborate? Saudi is the most Conservatively Muslim country is it not? I get that Saudi have liberalised a lot but it still seems quite conservative? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalidao Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 1 minute ago, Rafalove said: This is interesting. Can you elaborate? Saudi is the most Conservatively Muslim country is it not? I get that Saudi have liberalised a lot but it still seems quite conservative? Of course it's quite conservative by western standards but if you go back pre-2017 you will be amazed how different Saudi Arabia was back then. Under MBS, Saudi started seeing things like this happening in Riyadh and Jeddah (just 80 km away from Mecca) on weekly basis... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newcastle Fan Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 23 minutes ago, Khalidao said: Imagine thinking MBS is supporting radical versions of Islam... lol Stuff like this shows just how detached from reality a lot of people are about Saudi, "MBS supports radical version of islam" ffs, he's been the main person fighting against in recent times at personal risk and cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Except I never said that, I said he has his family under house arrest and there are forms of extreme Islam present and supported in the region/state. Imagined indeed. If you want to bat for MBS as an individual crack on but it wasn’t the crux of my point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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