PIF, PCP, and RB Sports & Media

[Dr Jinx]

7 minutes ago, Rafalove said:

 

This is interesting. Can you elaborate?

Saudi is the most Conservatively Muslim country is it not? I get that Saudi have liberalised a lot but it still seems quite conservative?

 

King Salman is far more conservative and resistant to change, MBS since essentially taking over sees the bigger picture. They have stacks of cash, an oil supply which will eventually run out and a reputation like they are from the stone age.

 

And they are, or more like they have been. Modernisation won't happen overnight, certainly not quick enough for some journalists who are still sore about nufc being in the money now. The thing is, if they were to relax all the traditional rules too quickly, there would be chaos, it would make the regime seem weak etc. Hence 81 executions the other day. I'm sure the point has already been made, but where were the same journos when the United States have executed 12 people so far this year and will go on to 43 people for the year, so are they human rights activists or are they using anything they can to write bad press about the club.

 

China execute so many people they don't even record the numbers - nobody was asking Everton this when they came in.

 

I'm not trying to justify anything, I think capital punishment is abhorrent but the hypocrisy runs deep when it comes to the agenda against our club.

[Rafalove]

17 minutes ago, Khalidao said:

 

Of course it's quite conservative by western standards but if you go back pre-2017 you will be amazed how different Saudi Arabia was back then. Under MBS, Saudi started seeing things like this happening in Riyadh and Jeddah (just 80 km away from Mecca) on weekly basis...

 

 

 

 

 

Im aware there has been a period of liberalisation. What I am asking is how does modern Saudi rank against other Islamic countries. For example some of the things that are happening now in Saudi are things that have been happening in other Muslim countries for sometime, right? Saudi can’t be the only Muslim country with music festivals. Or that allows women to drive.

How liberal are MBS’ beliefs? What type of society do we see Saudi as in the long run. Could we for example see an end to executions? Perhaps an allowance for free speech? Democracy? Or something more resembling democracy? The right to protest? Will there be no more Jamal Kashoggi type killings?

[Khalidao]

10 minutes ago, Darth Crooks said:

Except I never said that, I said he has his family under house arrest and there are forms of extreme Islam present and supported in the region/state. Imagined indeed. If you want to bat for MBS as an individual crack on but it wasn’t the crux of my point.

 

What do you mean he has his family under house arrest? All +8000 of AlSaud family?

 

Those under house arrest (not many) are corrupted royals who stole billions over the past 3 decades. It was a very, very popular move by MBS among all Saudis. Lobbyists in the US however, who saw their usual payments by those corrupted individuals cut, hated it.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Khalidao

[Darth Crooks]

6 minutes ago, Khalidao said:

 

What do you mean he has his family under house arrest? All +8000 of AlSaud family?

 

Those under house arrest (not many) are corrupted royals who stole millions over the past 3 decades. It was a very, very popular move by MBS among all Saudis. Lobbyists in the US however, who saw their usual payments by those corrupted individuals cut, hated it.

I clearly don’t mean that as the first part and you know that based on your second point so I’d sooner not dance around with the pendantry of language choice and the art of rhetorical jousting via straw men. Explain corrupted royals to me in the context of Saudi and stole what from whom? We have a bit of a problem with corrupted royals in the UK for different reasons. 😶

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Darth Crooks

[McCormick]

MBS has done wonders for finally improving women’s rights in KSA; he deserves a lot of credit for that as well as being (at least from what I’ve seen in Jeddah and Riyadh) the spearhead for a more “progressive” KSA.

 

There is, justifiably, a lot of criticism to be leveled at him but I’ve seen so many incredibly positive changes in the last 5 years in Saudi as a direct result of him coming into power. 

[Khalidao]

8 minutes ago, Darth Crooks said:

I clearly don’t mean that as the first part and you know that based on your second point so I’d sooner not dance around with the pendantry of language choice and the art of rhetorical jousting via straw men. Explain corrupted royals to me in the context of Saudi and stole what from whom? We have a bit of a problem with corrupted royals in the UK for different reasons. 😶

 

 

Those under house arrest were royals who used their official status to steal from the government in many different ways. One popular way, was getting cheap government contracts for their own personal businesses, a few payed what they stole back and had the transfer ban lifted.

 

 

[Dr Venkman]

2 hours ago, HTT II said:

The North has always voted Tory, it’s not some massive Labour strong hold, it’s mainly favoured Labour is all. Putin and Russia have never been an ally, they are deemed as the bad guys of Europe and always have been, even in WW2 we fought Germany, but favoured them over the Red Army. Saudi Arabia are our allies in the ME, they invest hundreds of billions here in our economy, PIF have shares in lots of our companies and globally from Uber to Disney to our very own football club, how do you sanction a legitimate business? We supply arms to them, are in a coalition with them against deemed enemies of the ME and with it the West. Honestly, it would take something unimaginable for our nation to sanction theirs, for the likes of PIF to be barred from trading/doing business in the U.K. and owning a football club. The Ukraine situation is something our nation and others will happily allow to play out and pretend to care about what’s happening, because really, they want a weakened Russia and sanctioning the likes of Abramovic is easier than hauling Putin over the coals and it also serves the self interests of others who are too weak or just can’t go after the real bad guys because they themselves are also the bad guys.

This is what I’ve been saying. If we’re in a situation where PIF are being told they can’t have an 80% in NUFC anymore by the UK government we’ll have much bigger things to worry about than football.

[OCK]

11 hours ago, NWMag said:

Is anybody else worried that changes come into effect and our owners are forced to sell? 

 

Nope. If they sell, they sell. If they don't, they don't. As long as Mike Ashley doesn't Dark Souls roll his way back into the picture, I really don't care one way or the other. 

[Guest HTT II]

9 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said:

This is what I’ve been saying. If we’re in a situation where PIF are being told they can’t have an 80% in NUFC anymore by the UK government we’ll have much bigger things to worry about than football.

Yes, it will mean a total break down of things in the ME for a start.

[Guest HTT II]

As for SA links with Chelsea Abramovic has had Chelsea effectively up for sale for a few years, if they wanted Chelsea or Man Utd or whoever they could wipe the floor with anyone to buy said clubs, they effectively paid over 1.3bn for us by settling the piracy  issues with Bein. As much as the mackems would love them to pull out/they get sanctioned or the PL have a morality change if heart, it ain’t and never is happening.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by HTT II

[Guest HTT II]

24 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said:

This is what I’ve been saying. If we’re in a situation where PIF are being told they can’t have an 80% in NUFC anymore by the UK government we’ll have much bigger things to worry about than football.

Our own government effectively lobbied the FA/PL to allow the sale to go through and had a hand in twisting SA’s arm to settle the piracy issues, that’s how tight knit relations are between the two…

[BlueStar]

We're their any photos of the Saudi Flag in our end on Sunday? My mum is convinced they just mistook Brazilian flags because there's lots of reports about it but very little in the way of photographic evidence. 

[Sima]

Last photo on this carousel shows some knacker with one wrapped around him.

[Wilson]

[Lazarus]

I cant see the Saudis being asked or being removed from football.

 

As said above, if they were, youve then got to question the behaviour/relationships of every other owner - and not just in the premier league.

 

Also if they did, what about saudi involvement in the wider world of sport and industry?

 

As we very kindly gave the Russians time to move their assets out of the UK, if saudi money were to leave as well, what would this mean to the economy as a whole?

[triggs]

Unfortunately it would probably take the Saudis starting a war in Europe as the Russians have done for there to be sanctions

[Kanji]

Hopefully that never happens. 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Without getting too much into the politics of it but since their inception the Saudi's have been an ally of this country (in fact the British Empire helped create the new state with violence might I add)

 

That arrangement suits the house of Saud and it very much suits Britain and the west, that relationship isn't changing. Russia hasn't been an ally so that comparison doesn't work.

 

Also, the fact that the hijackers of the planes were all Saudis yet it's Afghanistan that got bombed to smithereens whilst Saudi was untouched should tell you all you need to know about their relationship with the west 

[Hank Marvin]

They're trying to shame you into condemning your own team, and the singular opportunity that lies before us.

 

In the words of the great Michael Corleone; "Don’t ever take sides with anyone against the family again. Ever."

 

We need to close ranks & remain steadfast in our support for our club.

 

Our government, as well as successive governments in the western world, have done trade and maintained diplomatic relations with KSA for over half a century - Our government in particular has supplied arms and military equipment to KSA for decades.

 

This, goes by unnoticed or barely spoken of in the mainstream press, until...

 

We are taken over.

 

Now they're at DEFCON-1.

 

Everything the Saudi's & their ancestors have been doing for over a thousand years - Beheadings, public executions for social and moral infractions, corporal punishment, a radically different social policy regarding women - These things are suddenly presented to us as though we were born yesterday, our innocent eyes and ears besmirched with the previously unknown horrors of the House of Saud - And we're meant to gawp, weep and present ourselves, aghast, at these unbelievable revelations...

 

What we are not meant to do is question the timing of the highly coincidental, outward social displays of moral repugnance and condemnation of KSA with their takeover of our club - Especially in relation to our own government supplying them with war-grade weaponry longer than many of us will have been alive.

 

You're not meant to question, 'why now'? or 'what about (insert morally questionable / dictatorial tyrant owner / country here)?' - Because their questions are rhetorical, and because they don't have an answer for their own hypocrisy.

 

It's the media's job to whip up enough hysteria to frighten those with low amounts of intelligence into social conformity - The purpose, quite obviously, is to try and destabilize our football club, in the midst of it finding it's feet for the first time in nearly two decades.

 

A lot of you are going to have decide how you are going to deal with this, because this is only going to intensify in the future as we go from relegation candidates to silverware challengers. The attempts to destroy the harmony and togetherness of our fanbase will only increase in number and severity, and it's not because these people are following some Benedictine moral code that keeps them up at night - They're paid (more often than not) agent provocateurs, whose job it is to whip up media hysteria, sow discord & create headlines for the purposes of self-enrichment and bourgeois social standing.

 

Our club will be the whetstone they use to sharpen the blade that they intend to sacrifice us with.

 

I say to you all, with facetious intent - Don't lose your head.

 

The realities of the horror they throw at us are authentic, their intent is not.

 

This is a game to them - The rules are simple - Destabilize & destroy NUFC and it's fans - And win - Fail - And lose.

 

Eddie has set the example.

 

Being a football fan doesn't necessitate having to have a opinion on geopolitics & current affairs, or, that you're required to share your opinion. 

 

But should we feel compelled to say something, then it's simply this - That our love for our club is neither a wish to see it cut off from the backing it is desperately in need of, nor an endorsement of foreign power who our own government is already in bed with.

 

Don't let them get away with the false dichotomy of 'either / or'.

 

We're fans of our football club and wish to see it succeed.

 

If they want to accuse you of being a stooge or an unwitting puppet of foreign regimes, or any other of the double-barreled op-ed Guardian cliché's - Then it works both ways - Brutal middle-eastern adventurist wars, millions of dead for neo-con lies, a government supplying enough military hardware to propel war for a decade, the sanctioning of takeovers to other foreign, morally-questionable characters and companies, a world cup they will undoubtedly promote & report on in a country using modern day slave labor, bought through corruption at the highest echelons of FIFA, and on, and on, and on.

 

But do not let them get to you by acting hysterically, getting emotionally charged or doing something stupid or rash that will give them more fuel for their narrative.

 

We close ranks, we support each other, we support the team & the manager, and where we can - The board, and our collective aspirations to see our team do well.

 

If the vigor and vehemence with which they have went at us in the last few days has shocked you, then strap yourself in, because this ride has no breaks - We're going to have to learn to deal with the highs and lows of the rollercoaster ride we're on with equal parts, amusement, restraint & jubilation - A paradoxical concoction of emotions for sure, but a one that will likely mirror the twists and turns yet to come.

 

Keep the faith.

 

NUFC Forever.

[Darth Crooks]

I mean that’s well put together and very erudite but it opens with a quote from a fictional mafia boss who tries to escape the trappings of the life he’s in but can’t and likewise what does not acting hysterically mean practically? Dafties flying Saudi flags etc discounted. For the most part I think fans have a good dialogue on this and not many are abandoning nufc nor promoting the geopolitical rhetoric of PIF.

If pulling together means not discussing it openly and being self aware then it’s a line that shouldn’t be crossed. I don’t disagree with a lot there as many attempts by media are no doubt disingenuous and with thinly veiled agenda but forming ranks because NUFC caused bother under Ashley and will do here too.

[Guest HTT II]

12 hours ago, Hank Marvin said:

They're trying to shame you into condemning your own team, and the singular opportunity that lies before us.

 

In the words of the great Michael Corleone; "Don’t ever take sides with anyone against the family again. Ever."

 

We need to close ranks & remain steadfast in our support for our club.

 

Our government, as well as successive governments in the western world, have done trade and maintained diplomatic relations with KSA for over half a century - Our government in particular has supplied arms and military equipment to KSA for decades.

 

This, goes by unnoticed or barely spoken of in the mainstream press, until...

 

We are taken over.

 

Now they're at DEFCON-1.

 

Everything the Saudi's & their ancestors have been doing for over a thousand years - Beheadings, public executions for social and moral infractions, corporal punishment, a radically different social policy regarding women - These things are suddenly presented to us as though we were born yesterday, our innocent eyes and ears besmirched with the previously unknown horrors of the House of Saud - And we're meant to gawp, weep and present ourselves, aghast, at these unbelievable revelations...

 

What we are not meant to do is question the timing of the highly coincidental, outward social displays of moral repugnance and condemnation of KSA with their takeover of our club - Especially in relation to our own government supplying them with war-grade weaponry longer than many of us will have been alive.

 

You're not meant to question, 'why now'? or 'what about (insert morally questionable / dictatorial tyrant owner / country here)?' - Because their questions are rhetorical, and because they don't have an answer for their own hypocrisy.

 

It's the media's job to whip up enough hysteria to frighten those with low amounts of intelligence into social conformity - The purpose, quite obviously, is to try and destabilize our football club, in the midst of it finding it's feet for the first time in nearly two decades.

 

A lot of you are going to have decide how you are going to deal with this, because this is only going to intensify in the future as we go from relegation candidates to silverware challengers. The attempts to destroy the harmony and togetherness of our fanbase will only increase in number and severity, and it's not because these people are following some Benedictine moral code that keeps them up at night - They're paid (more often than not) agent provocateurs, whose job it is to whip up media hysteria, sow discord & create headlines for the purposes of self-enrichment and bourgeois social standing.

 

Our club will be the whetstone they use to sharpen the blade that they intend to sacrifice us with.

 

I say to you all, with facetious intent - Don't lose your head.

 

The realities of the horror they throw at us are authentic, their intent is not.

 

This is a game to them - The rules are simple - Destabilize & destroy NUFC and it's fans - And win - Fail - And lose.

 

Eddie has set the example.

 

Being a football fan doesn't necessitate having to have a opinion on geopolitics & current affairs, or, that you're required to share your opinion. 

 

But should we feel compelled to say something, then it's simply this - That our love for our club is neither a wish to see it cut off from the backing it is desperately in need of, nor an endorsement of foreign power who our own government is already in bed with.

 

Don't let them get away with the false dichotomy of 'either / or'.

 

We're fans of our football club and wish to see it succeed.

 

If they want to accuse you of being a stooge or an unwitting puppet of foreign regimes, or any other of the double-barreled op-ed Guardian cliché's - Then it works both ways - Brutal middle-eastern adventurist wars, millions of dead for neo-con lies, a government supplying enough military hardware to propel war for a decade, the sanctioning of takeovers to other foreign, morally-questionable characters and companies, a world cup they will undoubtedly promote & report on in a country using modern day slave labor, bought through corruption at the highest echelons of FIFA, and on, and on, and on.

 

But do not let them get to you by acting hysterically, getting emotionally charged or doing something stupid or rash that will give them more fuel for their narrative.

 

We close ranks, we support each other, we support the team & the manager, and where we can - The board, and our collective aspirations to see our team do well.

 

If the vigor and vehemence with which they have went at us in the last few days has shocked you, then strap yourself in, because this ride has no breaks - We're going to have to learn to deal with the highs and lows of the rollercoaster ride we're on with equal parts, amusement, restraint & jubilation - A paradoxical concoction of emotions for sure, but a one that will likely mirror the twists and turns yet to come.

 

Keep the faith.

 

NUFC Forever.

You could have cropped out the SD like…

[PauloGeordio]

26 minutes ago, HTT II said:

You could have cropped out the SD like…

This 

[Sima]

There wouldn't be nowhere near this much fewm against us if the following had not happened

 

1) Chelsea sanctioned.

2) Our resurgence in form coupled with putting in a strong performance (with a weakened team) at the weekend against one of their beloved top six.

[Robster]

26 minutes ago, Sima said:

There wouldn't be nowhere near this much fewm against us if the following had not happened

 

1) Chelsea sanctioned.

2) Our resurgence in form coupled with putting in a strong performance (with a weakened team) at the weekend against one of their beloved top six.

No one wants us to be successful at all, like

[NE27]

12 minutes ago, Robster said:

No one wants us to be successful at all, like

 

Not sure I do considering the backlash like

 

I'll take just being competitive ala wolves/Leicester/Southampton right now please haha