Eddie Howe

[Palestoon]

We have no identity. 

 

Howes first season we were defensively resolute and grinding out results.

 

Next season when we finished 4th we were pressing monsters.

 

Since then we've lost our way. Last season you can excuse because of the injuries/schedule. 

 

This season we look to have lost that intensity. It seems to be for multiple reasons. To avoid an injury crisis like last season. To protect our defensive line that got torched last season too often. and finally because teams have figured out that if they sit back, play long balls over the top, they nullify our press, and force us to have to build attacks from the back which we can't do consistently. Our team is built to score off quick press, quick transitions and counters. Teams have caught on and are forcing us to break them down... which we aren't built to do. What are the ways to break teams down who sit back?

 

Crafty #10 to play in tight spaces? No. flat midfield means no one behind Isak with ability to unlock a block.

 

Tricky wingers who can create space one on one? No. Gordon/Barnes/Joelinton are players who need space to get the best out of them. None are good enough dribblers to win one on one consistently on the wing.

 

Whip balls into the box to create chaos? No. Isak is not strong enough in the air to trouble most premier league CBs consistently.

 

Thus you're left with the current state of our attack. Eddie needs to try something different tactically. I fear it's going to be difficult to change as a team drastically without new signings.

 

 

 

 

[Erikse]

I think average points is a better way to judge. Right now we are on course for 8th - 10th in terms of average (55 pts). However 5 out of our next 7 games looks kind of tough on paper, but that also depends on the state of Villa. Brentford away after Liverpool isn't looking like an easy one at the moment, they are scoring goals for fun.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2024 by Erikse

[Zero]

No matter how you think he is performing reasonably or badly, no matter how close we are from 3rd / 6th, it’s kinda guaranteed that he will be sacked if we finish another season without Euro competition. No excuse.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2024 by Zero

[macphisto]

1 hour ago, Zero said:

No matter how you think he is performing reasonably or badly, no matter how close we are from 3rd / 6th, it’s kinda guaranteed that he will be sacked if we finish another season without Euro competition. No excuse.

 

 

 

There is no excuses but there are very valid reasons if we don't. There is no way you can reasonably demand European football if you have not invested in the team for 18 months. Also important to take into account that due to Tonali being an idiot our main signing of that summer is now having to be bedded in a season later than planned. 

 

As a thought experiment, if we had all been told after the summer of 2023 that we would not sign another player up to now. Where would most people have predicted we would be? I'd say where we are now. 

 

We can all look back and say why did we buy Barnes, not a new RW, etc. but Howe is not the Director of football and whatever his influence in recruitment did he know the taps would be turned off after 2023?

[Menace]

Nothings ever simple at this club is it. Been a supporter for 20+ years, at max you get a few years of enjoyment before the inevitable doubt and dread always takes over. The amount of stuff that happened over the summer with Amanda leaving, then Eales becoming sick, the Mitchell/Howe tug of war has clearly had an effect on the squad - look how the players used to talk about Amanda. If its this present to us - lord knows how it really is behind the doors.

 

He's been dealt a shit hand, but it's inexcusable for some of the shite being served up. I'm also tired of the "SEE I TOLD YOU HES NOT GOOD ENOUGH SACK HIM NOW" posters popping up after every shit result and ultimately vanish after we get a decent result. Just say you don't like the man rather than spouting nonsense.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2024 by Menace

[Zero]

53 minutes ago, macphisto said:

There is no excuses but there are very valid reasons if we don't. There is no way you can reasonably demand European football if you have not invested in the team for 18 months. Also important to take into account that due to Tonali being an idiot our main signing of that summer is now having to be bedded in a season later than planned. 

 

As a thought experiment, if we had all been told after the summer of 2023 that we would not sign another player up to now. Where would most people have predicted we would be? I'd say where we are now. 

 

We can all look back and say why did we buy Barnes, not a new RW, etc. but Howe is not the Director of football and whatever his influence in recruitment did he know the taps would be turned off after 2023?

I don’t want to be harsh on Howe but seriously:

we got one of the best striker in the world (Isak)

we got the starting LW for England (Gordon)

we got Italys and Brazils best CM (Tonali and Bruno)

we got a beast in his last prime years (Joe)

we got Englands full backs in the next decade (Livra and Hall)

we have a more than decent GK (Pope)

we even have a top quality CB who’s yet to comeback (Botman)

 

Thats a fucking strong and win-now team. And this season we don’t have injury problems, fatigue problems, only domestic competitions. 
 

I genuinely don’t think you can blame all on the lack of signings. I’d agree we would be much better if we have a new CB and RW this summer, but even without that we shouldn’t be THAT shit on the pitch.

[Ben]

In Eddie we trust

 

 

 

(but 0.02 XG is nee good like)

[SUPERTOON]

2 hours ago, macphisto said:

There is no excuses but there are very valid reasons if we don't. There is no way you can reasonably demand European football if you have not invested in the team for 18 months. Also important to take into account that due to Tonali being an idiot our main signing of that summer is now having to be bedded in a season later than planned. 

 

As a thought experiment, if we had all been told after the summer of 2023 that we would not sign another player up to now. Where would most people have predicted we would be? I'd say where we are now. 

 

We can all look back and say why did we buy Barnes, not a new RW, etc. but Howe is not the Director of football and whatever his influence in recruitment did he know the taps would be turned off after 2023?

None of that is an excuse for how bad we look though. For comparison the post January transfer window side in his first season would comfortably beat this current side. That’s a mark of regression. 

[RS]

“We didn't have any goalmouth action but I felt we were good in the game. I felt we nullified them pretty well. In the main, I think we controlled it pretty well.”

 

He’s starting to smell like cabbage 

[Heron]

8 hours ago, gjohnson said:

Well that's on the manager for not recognising that the 'back up' isn't up to the role. That is where Osula should be coming in..unless he genuinely was just a signing for signings sake. 

 

Even as a project player he's not going to be up to playing if he never gets any meaningful time and 15m is a lot to spend on a seat warmer in the dugout. Almost as stupid as the 70m (last i heard) spent on Vlachidmiousosos

70m we spent on Vlachadimos?

 

That sounds like a load of bollocks to me like, sorry.

 

Also, £15m for a young striker who he believes has the talent to develop into a more regular starter isn't all that bad to be fair. Lewis Hall cost more and he's developed him well - he's been our best player this season.

[Myleftboot]

5 minutes ago, RS said:

“We didn't have any goalmouth action but I felt we were good in the game. I felt we nullified them pretty well. In the main, I think we controlled it pretty well.”

 

He’s starting to smell like cabbage 

[Heron]

8 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

If you want to argue that Osula should be at CF ahead of a square peg, I wouldn't argue, but if you're arguing that a lack of playtime is stunting his development, then Lewis Hall is an incredibly recent counter-argument to that. Or has this ropey start to the season eradicated Howe's track record for developing players as well? 

Exactly. This is also forgetting that a whole plethora of players have been developed under Howe to the point some were considered Championship players and qere playing in the Champions League. In no particular order I can think of all these players who have improved under his watch (off the top of my head):

 

Pope

Hall

Livramento

Burn

Schar

Murphy

Almiron

Gordon

Longstaff

Joelinton

Miley

Anderson

Krafth

[Heron]

8 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The Bobby Robson comment is a right old load of bollocks mind.  Robson should’ve been sacked earlier - the issue was appointing Souness, not sacking Robson.  

Whilst I agree with what you said. Fans did push for him to be gone and the grass wasn't greener.

 

I think that was more the point being made.

 

You are right about appointing Souness though. I just tend to see a lot of problem identification rather than provision of solutions which frustrates me. If there are better managers out there who we can definitely attain then who are they? And can they do better than Howe under existing FFP regulations etc.

 

I'm not saying they don't exist FWIW. I don't really watch anyone other than Newcastle and Inter, but I doubt there are many.

[St1pe]

I feel a bit for him because all of the short term thinking insults are getting thrown at him at the minute. I saw some popular fan page on twitter saying we would be going mental if we produced thad under Bruce - we were literally like that or worse every week under Bruce. 
 

It’s the inconsistency that’s the problem and his inability to find a solution at the minute but maybe their isn’t one with the current player base. 
 

I don’t think everything can be blamed for this but I’m convinced if we’d signed a proper RW a year ago we wouldn’t be having most of these issues. We’ve got two LW that can’t play on the right and their positional rotation seems to have hampered both. Miggy and Murphy were never top level but their fall off this season has been quite something. Then add in our most creative player Trippier being completely removed for whatever reason and that whole right side is pointless. 
 

I’m not sure how much Howe can be blamed for it but out fruitless pursuit for a cb all summer seems even more stupid now - so I guess he has to take some portion of blame there. 

[Heron]

7 hours ago, Holmesy said:

Is 10th place really considered ‘in the race for Europe’? 
By that token, Bournemouth are also

in the race for Europe because they’re mid-table too?

I’m all for a bit of optimism but that’s reaching a bit.
 

Well...we're currently 4 points off the CL spots. So aye, we're currently in the race...

 

Doesn't mean we will be come the end of the season necessarily. But we are now.

[Ellis H]

If Howe’s ultimate “live or die” remit is Europe then he’s not getting sacked anytime soon. Yes, the bigger picture doesn’t look like a masterpiece but it’s a points business and we’re doing fine there.

 

It’s also worth noting Palace have drawn with Chelsea, Man Utd, Villa and now us and have beaten Tottenham this season (knocked Villa out the cup as well). Those are the teams that will realistically be challenging for the top 4 and sums up how inconsistent all bar 3 teams have been in recent years. Ipswich have taken 4 points off Man Utd and Tottenham in the last 2 weeks as another recent example. Inconsistency isn’t just a Howe/us problem, most teams suffer from it now and they don’t have the answers either. 

[ExiledGeordie]

Hopefully he’s finally realised that Tonali can play in that slightly deeper role as he’s good on the ball and has good recovery pace. Let Bruno try and influence the game further up.

 

Our attack however is woeful, we’ve run out of ideas, players out of form and desperately need of a new right winger or someone who can pull

something out of their arse. We couldn’t break through a wet paper bag currently. 
 

The league is an odd one this season and we’re definitely not completely out of the European race but we look very mid table in our form. January will be interesting and to see how the season pans out but the pressure is definitely increasing on Howe.

 

[ExiledGeordie]

4 minutes ago, Ellis H said:

If Howe’s ultimate “live or die” remit is Europe then he’s not getting sacked anytime soon. Yes, the bigger picture doesn’t look like a masterpiece but it’s a points business and we’re doing fine there.

 

It’s also worth noting Palace have drawn with Chelsea, Man Utd, Villa and now us and have beaten Tottenham this season (knocked Villa out the cup as well). Those are the teams that will realistically be challenging for the top 4 and sums up how inconsistent all bar 3 teams have been in recent years. Ipswich have taken 4 points off Man Utd and Tottenham in the last 2 weeks as another recent example. Inconsistency isn’t just a Howe/us problem, most teams suffer from it now and they don’t have the answers either. 

It’s definitely an odd season so that combined with a disastrous summer are things that go in favour of Howe.

[Sibierski]

9 hours ago, astraguy said:

what a post by @thelittlemans

That’s all fair and valid, but does smacks loads of head in sand and ignore what’s happening during the games when they say “but sadly we conceded a last-minute goal and got an away point”, makes it sound like it was an unfortunate game  

 

 

Edited December 1, 2024 by Sibierski

[Keegans Export]

The Tonali thing I really can't get my head around.

 

By all accounts, Howe massively rated him. Obviously what happened last season he couldn't have seen coming but Tonali has had the best part of a year just training. How has he not worked out what to do with him?

 

It's all well and good questioning the balance of the squad but Eddie's fingerprints are all over it, that's undeniable, and he has to take his share of the responsibility too.

[ExiledGeordie]

I think you can be very concerned at aspects of our play which raises questions about the management but still not be “Howe out”, that’s where I am currently anyway.

[ExiledGeordie]

Just now, Keegans Export said:

The Tonali thing I really can't get my head around.

 

By all accounts, Howe massively rated him. Obviously what happened last season he couldn't have seen coming but Tonali has had the best part of a year just training. How has he not worked out what to do with him?

 

It's all well and good questioning the balance of the squad but Eddie's fingerprints are all over it, that's undeniable, and he has to take his share of the responsibility too.

Yeah it’s an odd one but he does often take ages bedding players in, Bruno for example. Hopefully yesterday has finally shown him he has to start him now, has to, he’s too good to leave him on the bench.

[Skeletor]

My growing concerns about him are that the issues with our play have been going on for over a year now and he doesn't seem to have an answer for it. He is just doubling down and doing the same thing with diminishing results. Additionally why haven't we strengthened the team significantly in the last 3 windows? How much of that is him vetoing players and causing a stalemate. I mean on one hand he's saying we can't spend money we don't have, but then we pursue Guehi like lunatics with no financial sense.

[ExiledGeordie]

2 minutes ago, Skeletor said:

My growing concerns about him are that the issues with our play have been going on for over a year now and he doesn't seem to have an answer for it. He is just doubling down and doing the same thing with diminishing results. Additionally why haven't we strengthened the team significantly in the last 3 windows? How much of that is him vetoing players and causing a stalemate. I mean on one hand he's saying we can't spend money we don't have, but then we pursue Guehi like lunatics with no financial sense.

January is very important but for me it does feel like things are going to come to a head this season one way or another. He’ll either manage to pull if round and get us playing again going forward (maybe with a new RW) or we’ll continue to be really inconsistent and finish outside Europe and he’ll be removed. I agree there have been issues with our play creeping in for a while now.

[Holmesy]

7 hours ago, JEToon said:

OK  

 

we currently, even with what we have won, sit 3 points off a European place.

“10th” means fuck all without context of the league,  it’s tedious to keep saying “10th”  when Spurs and Villa are “8th” and “9th” 

The teams above us for the most part haven’t show they are “far more capable”  hence why the league is so close or they’d have left pishy old us in the dust. Instead they also drop points to teams they shouldn’t as this league is marginal as fuck across about 14 teams. 

 

its gate keeping projection pish - other teams might improve? but we just can’t possibly do that, it’s so weird to think like that, but you keep hoping for the worst. 
 

until we actually are shite can you stop pretending we are, it’s strange as fuck to do that. 

 

 

 

Pretending we are?! What have you been watching because it’s clearly not the same games I, and most others have.

Describe our current identity and attacking gameplan? How are we trying to break teams down?

 

As I have said a hundred times on here, I have made no secret of the fact I don’t think Eddie is the guy to take us to the next level. I love him as a person but I think he has already reached his ceiling and bounced off it. 
Am I willing him to fail? No, of course not. Like everyone, I am willing him to succeed. 

But do I think we need minor tweaks to go on a winning run that secures European football? again no. I think we need a whole new gameplan.

Nothing we are seeing suggests we are close.

Do I think Eddie is the kind of guy and manager to rip up the script and do something radically different to give us fresh impetus? No, but I seriously hope he proves me wrong, and if he does I will happily eat humble pie.

 

As things stand, the only way I see us getting back to our best is with new signings.

 

i respect and admire your optimism but I don’t share it. There are too many red flags starting to show.

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2024 by Holmesy