Eddie Howe

[SUPERTOON]

6 minutes ago, NWMag said:

Everyone keeps saying we have 4 CM’s, we have 5. Howe has said Anderson is a CM so whether you think he is up to it or not, the clubs view is we have 5 CM’s, and if we play 4231 we only need 2 of them

We have played 4 of them non stop for the last few months though so that in itself is an issue.

[SUPERTOON]

1 minute ago, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said:

Shelvey wasn't fit was he ? or am I just stupid but how is this even a discussion? he's a tampax player 

Because he’s fit now and would have been an option for the rest of the season 

[STM]

6 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

People continue to miss the point re: shelvey. The point is we need a squad, with options who we know can contribute at PL level. Shelvey was that, as recently as our great run last season. We’ve made a money move to get rid, fine; but it’s a gamble and now we have to pay for that gamble by relying on crap players. I therefore conclude it wasn’t an intelligent gamble in all the circumstances. 

 

It’s really simple. 

 

Everything you say is correct apart from one thing.... long term.

 

By keeping Shelvey (who begged to leave) and playing him, we would have triggered a contract extension. He was a player with no future at the club, on high wages and needed moved on.

 

If losing Shelveys 100k? wages gives us even more wriggle room for signings in the summer, it was worth the gamble.

 

Would Shelvey have seen us get top 4? I think it's hard to tell but IMO the owners (Ashworth) aren't going to make decisions based on that point. It wasn't even on the horizon at the start of the season and they won't change their plans and "gamble" on anything.

 

The process is thought through and they won't budge from it, nor should they. We are only going in one direction, a moment of short term discomfort for long term success is well worth it.

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

Because he’s fit now and would have been an option for the rest of the season 

For a week or say perhaps, hes had 7 seasons of underachievement, injury & disappointment (save the championship season) he wasn't imo a viable option, but I know nowt 

[Theregulars]

4 minutes ago, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said:

Shelvey wasn't fit was he ? or am I just stupid but how is this even a discussion? he's a tampax player 

Again, played yesterday. 

[Theregulars]

Just now, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said:

For a week or say perhaps, hes had 7 seasons of underachievement, injury & disappointment (save the championship season) he wasn't imo a viable option, but I know nowt 

How do you think he performed after Howe arrived last season?

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

4 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

Again, played yesterday. 

Sub no ? 

[Theregulars]

4 minutes ago, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said:

Sub no ? 

Yes; and the entire point I’m making is that we need a squad. So, to spell that out more clearly, we need to have substitutes who can come in and operate at a premier league level when our starters are injured or suspended. We now have 2 CM starters out, so having a roster of 4 for 3 places was not an intelligent gamble. We’ve not made big enough money on Shelvey to make it worthwhile in my view. People will now bleat “but FFP!” - fine, then recruit intelligently. Get a loan or find a young gem. The board and manager - who, again, have been brilliant in their tenures to date - have left us stupidly short. 

[Theregulars]

11 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

How do you think he performed after Howe arrived last season?

I’ll give you a clue: well.

[Theregulars]

14 minutes ago, STM said:

 

Everything you say is correct apart from one thing.... long term.

 

By keeping Shelvey (who begged to leave) and playing him, we would have triggered a contract extension. He was a player with no future at the club, on high wages and needed moved on.

 

If losing Shelveys 100k? wages gives us even more wriggle room for signings in the summer, it was worth the gamble.

 

Would Shelvey have seen us get top 4? I think it's hard to tell but IMO the owners (Ashworth) aren't going to make decisions based on that point. It wasn't even on the horizon at the start of the season and they won't change their plans and "gamble" on anything.

 

The process is thought through and they won't budge from it, nor should they. We are only going in one direction, a moment of short term discomfort for long term success is well worth it.

I proposed we kept him until season’s end. If his automatic extension kicked in, so be it; we make it clear to him that he’s not getting many minutes and should look for a club during the summer. Howe was clearly prepared to trigger the extension, which suggests they weren’t that concerned about it.

 

I don’t think Shelvey by himself would have got us into the top 4, of course not. But I think he could be a squad player in an upstart team that gets there before growing, yes.

[Coffee_Johnny]

33 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

People continue to miss the point re: shelvey. The point is we need a squad, with options who we know can contribute at PL level. Shelvey was that, as recently as our great run last season. We’ve made a money move to get rid, fine; but it’s a gamble and now we have to pay for that gamble by relying on crap players. I therefore conclude it wasn’t an intelligent gamble in all the circumstances. 

 

It’s really simple. 

So is balancing the books in terms of wages and numbers. Also respecting a player’s wish to leave. Hasn’t really featured much this season so probably on balance seemed the right option. 

[joeyt]

44 minutes ago, LV said:

Exactly.

 

Shelvey begged to go at the 11th hour. We didn’t have time to get anyone in because of that. You can’t just magic a loan up out of thin air and on top of that we are really particular about who we get in. 
 

People are being unrealistic. 

 

We've needed a midfielder even before Shelvey said he wanted to go

[Theregulars]

He hasn’t featured as much because he was injured. Howe repeatedly said that shelvey was a big player for us and that his return would help. Again, I understand the financial argument and the argument that Shelvey wanted to take the longer contract. However, we held the cards, and I think we should have stood firm. It’s not a huge forbearance on him to play for us instead of nottingham forest for a further 4/5 months. In theory it’s nice to grant his wishes, but I’d rather not be nice when it means weakening our chances this season. All in all, in my opinion it looks a bad decision. 

[Theregulars]

1 minute ago, joeyt said:

 

We've needed a midfielder even before Shelvey said he wanted to go

Precisely! We’ve now a need for 2, not 1. Bad decision. 
 

Like I’ve said, you’re just not allowed to criticise Howe and the board without provoking an avalanche of accusations of entitlement, lacking perspective and overhyping shelvey (a PL regular for most of his 14 year career, by the way). 

[SUPERTOON]

1 minute ago, Theregulars said:

Precisely! We’ve now a need for 2, not 1. Bad decision. 
 

Like I’ve said, you’re just not allowed to criticise Howe and the board without provoking an avalanche of accusations of entitlement, lacking perspective and overhyping shelvey (a PL regular for most of his 14 year career, by the way). 

Don’t even think this is a criticism of Howe tbh, I don’t think he would have let Shelvey go. 

[Theregulars]

47 minutes ago, LV said:

Exactly.

 

Shelvey begged to go at the 11th hour. We didn’t have time to get anyone in because of that. You can’t just magic a loan up out of thin air and on top of that we are really particular about who we get in. 
 

People are being unrealistic. 

Firstly, stop saying he “begged”. It’s stupidly emotive. He politely asked and set out his case. 
 

Secondly, the fact he asked so late should support the argument that we should have said no. Too late to replace him. The manager himself has said it’s a big gamble and he’s not comfortable with it. Stop trying to excuse them - they’ve made a mistake and it’s plain as day. All parties involved have shown their inexperience.

[Theregulars]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

Don’t even think this is a criticism of Howe tbh, I don’t think he would have let Shelvey go. 

I’m criticising Howe, who said that he agreed to let Shelvey go. I think it was an overly-emotional decision from Howe. He should have stood firm, and politely declined the request.

[LV]

1 minute ago, Theregulars said:

I’m criticising Howe, who said that he agreed to let Shelvey go. I think it was an overly-emotional decision from Howe. He should have stood firm, and politely declined the request.

Overly emotional? He said no at first and Jonjo begged him to be let go. That’s not an overly emotional response.

 

You want to keep an unhappy player? Because that won’t work. He’d been here years and wanted to go.

 

Right decision in my opinion and just unfortunately too late in the day to get a replacement of the calibre we want. 

[Gallowgate Toon]

The judgment of the success of the January window will be closer to the end of the season. There's loads of football left to play.

 

It was the same after summer, folks going on about not having enough in attack etc. We've taken a somewhat calculated risk, yes, but way too early to say if it's a failed gamble or not.

[morpeth mag]

Selling Shelvey made sense for the club and player in the long term. I'm surprised we didn't bring someone in on loan and can only summise there was nobody better than Elliot Anderson.

[LV]

6 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

Firstly, stop saying he “begged”. It’s stupidly emotive. He politely asked and set out his case. 
 

Secondly, the fact he asked so late should support the argument that we should have said no. Too late to replace him. The manager himself has said it’s a big gamble and he’s not comfortable with it. Stop trying to excuse them - they’ve made a mistake and it’s plain as day. All parties involved have shown their inexperience.

He did beg. Can’t find the article now but he pleaded to be let go.

 

You don’t agree with the decision. That’s fine. But you appear to have taken it quite badly. 

[Theregulars]

7 minutes ago, LV said:

Overly emotional? He said no at first and Jonjo begged him to be let go. That’s not an overly emotional response.

 

You want to keep an unhappy player? Because that won’t work. He’d been here years and wanted to go.

 

Right decision in my opinion and just unfortunately too late in the day to get a replacement of the calibre we want. 

Ok - where is it reported that Shelvey “begged”? 

[Theregulars]

4 minutes ago, LV said:

He did beg. Can’t find the article now but he pleaded to be let go.

 

You don’t agree with the decision. That’s fine. But you appear to have taken it quite badly. 

You really love putting emotions and states of mind on people. It’s patronising and a very cheap way of debating. I haven’t “taken it badly”, I’m putting across my case that I think it’s a needless gamble in the prevailing circumstances. 
 

Im really happy for you to disagree, but stop swanning about telling people what they think or feel. 

[Groundhog63]

Hilarious knackers on here suggesting we'd be nailed on for a top 4 spot with an injured Shelvey on the bench ?????

[Theregulars]

Just now, Groundhog63 said:

Hilarious knackers on here suggesting we'd be nailed on for a top 4 spot with an injured Shelvey on the bench ?????

Again, nobody is saying that. They’re just saying that we need a squad, and him leaving leaves us with a shallower squad. Stop making things up to suit your lazy argument.