TheBrownBottle Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 hour ago, 80 said: Re: flash in the pan, I'm talking from an outsider's perspective. Yes, it was only two years between Keegan and Robson, and yet we'd absolutely clattered down in that time, the board wasn't feeling wealthy post-floatation, and history was already starting to be rewritten about our 'natural place' etc. If Robson hadn't come, we could well have ended up with a different anti-Gullit who 'knew the area' like Brian Little. And we certainly wouldn't have remained one of the richest clubs in the world for long. They both had not massively long reigns, but combined (along with the hiccup) it made for 12 years of being a real domestic and European force that couldn't be denied despite the lack of trophies. I'm arguing each legacy has been strengthened by the other. Maybe I'm biased, but I strongly disagree about Everton and Leeds. Not about the size or potential of the clubs, but how evocative they are to outsiders. Everton especially suffers in the same way we'd be held back if we were Benwell FC. Ashley has hurt us massively, but it would be that much worse if the last time we did anything of note pre-him was 1996 rather than 2005, during which time there was such commercial growth in the game. Again, as I say, no dispute about Keegan's importance. It's just that it's so obvious to me it hardly needs me to add to the chorus. Without him, Robson probably wouldn't have come in 99 and wouldn't have been able to do what he did even if he had. But I find the rewriting of Robson as being a good hand for 3 years who happened to be local weird - particularly considering the abjectness of the board he was working for at the time. Fair enough - but to the last point you raise - he wasn’t starting with a ramshackle club facing financial oblivion and relegation to the Third Division. He was taking on a team with talented players, bottom of the top division after a handful of games due to mismanagement, in the process of extending the ground to being the second biggest in the country and comfortably one of Europe’s richest clubs. He did a really good job at Newcastle. Keegan did an unbelievable job at Newcastle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 9 hours ago, 80 said: No disputes about Keegan, but Robson consolidated the club in footballing memory as the sleeping giant. Half the foreign supporters in this forum started following us during his reign or while his team hadn't yet been dismantled. I think it's easy to forget how dark things were after Dalglish and Gullit. Robson re-stirred the pot and made NUFC mean something to a full generation of people Eddie Howe's age rather than being a 3 year flash in the pan that happened while John Major was Prime Minister and amounted to as much as O'Leary and Ridsdale's Leeds. Without him, the best case scenario could have been having all the attraction and global respect of Everton. Which isn't very much even though they were multiple title winners not all that long before Keegan came here. And mirroring Sunderland's path was just as possible. Amanda and Mehrdad didn't fancy those investments, strangely. I love Bobby Robson but he never took us to a final. Eddie has. We really need to focus on what Eddie has done and not keep looking to the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 4 hours ago, Mountain said: I love Bobby Robson but he never took us to a final. Eddie has. We really need to focus on what Eddie has done and not keep looking to the past. Don't really disagree with that. Especially as it can often be counter productive. Eddie has got the handing if the "how many years without a trophy?!" stuff spot on, and avoided it becoming a monkey on our back so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said: Fair enough - but to the last point you raise - he wasn’t starting with a ramshackle club facing financial oblivion and relegation to the Third Division. He was taking on a team with talented players, bottom of the top division after a handful of games due to mismanagement, in the process of extending the ground to being the second biggest in the country and comfortably one of Europe’s richest clubs. He did a really good job at Newcastle. Keegan did an unbelievable job at Newcastle. Definitely, Keegan's contribution was miraculous, and you couldn't use the same word for Robson's time. To be blunt and ugly though, in terms of reputation, Robson's passing was also well timed, in terms of how he's thought of. Also, the dignity with which he handled his time after leaving here - even though he no longer worked here he was one of the increasingly few dignified things about the club for the following 5 years. That's part of why he's been sanctified, but that's just how humans make sense of the world. In contrast, and to be clear I don't blame him for this, Keegan pretty much disappeared after each time he left the club. Re: statues of him not having happened yet, it's the old phrase, he's lived too long. If something more tragic had happened, his reputation would be Busby Babe-esque. Thankfully he enjoys his retirement playing golf in Spain and what have you. Edited February 9, 2023 by 80 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 https://www.skysports.com/football/story-telling/11095/12805420/the-evolution-of-eddie-howe-the-newcastle-managers-rise-examined-as-he-returns-to-bournemouth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiston Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Dare criticise him even a little? Dropped points against against Leeds, Palace, West Ham and Bournemouth, 4 of the worst teams in form. Poor transfer window hasn't helped him at all mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 He’ll be desperate to sort this out but I wonder whether some of the players are just absolutely spent. Most of the squad play huge minutes and there’s no squad rotation game to game. He’s got few options to change things really Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Butcher Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Feel for him. The board failed badly this Jan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 1 minute ago, Aiston said: Dare criticise him even a little? Dropped points against against Leeds, Palace, West Ham and Bournemouth, 4 of the worst teams in form. Poor transfer window hasn't helped him at all mind. criticize a little...you consistently fly off the handle with every damnthing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiston Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Just now, Vinny Green Balls said: criticize a little...you consistently fly off the handle with every damnthing. I criticise a team dropping points against 4 of the worst in form teams in the league.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Just now, Aiston said: I criticise a team dropping points against 4 of the worst in form teams in the league.... dude, have a bit of self awareness. Got through your posts. You'd think we were about to implode like Wimbledon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, The Butcher said: Feel for him. The board failed badly this Jan. aye. At times he needs to play the Rafa and Conte games. Not everyday company man. I say this because I don’t think he was happy with our business. If it was up to him we would replace or keep Wood and Shelvey. Edited February 11, 2023 by The College Dropout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiston Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 1 minute ago, Vinny Green Balls said: dude, have a bit of self awareness. Got through your posts. You'd think we were about to implode like Wimbledon. You need to just get over someone daring to criticise the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Everyone’s criticising the team man, mostly in an analytical or constructive way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, The Butcher said: Feel for him. The board failed badly this Jan. I think the Wood and Shelvey sales were a guide to better replacements this summer however Howe needs to stretch the squad in the meantime, the bench today was awful Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 6 minutes ago, Aiston said: You need to just get over someone daring to criticise the team. so brave of you. Those villagers I met in Niger standing up to the jihadists could use some of your courage. You give TED talks? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: aye. At times he needs to play the Rafa and Conte games. Not everyday company man. I say this because I don’t think he was happy with our business. If it was up to him we would replace or keep Wood and Shelvey. Howay man he's had two windows where we added 3 first-teamers at a time. One of the windows we were going to have to balance things out a bit. Having a go at any of our transfer activity the last 14 months. Give your head a shake man. Edited February 11, 2023 by Optimistic Nut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack j Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Class that reception he got at the end of the game like. Bloke deserves it. Our support could do with supporting him like that next week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmesy Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) I do have a couple of criticisms and they’re valid. 1. We have no plan B. This could be due to lack of options on the bench but time will tell. We’ve become predictable and easy to defend against in recent games and we seem incapable of changing it up 2. Our lack of aerial threat is a big problem and it clearly isn’t being coached/worked on in training. Going more direct could be our plan B if anyone could actually head a ball In general EH is doing better than everyone expected but he’s not beyond criticism Edited February 11, 2023 by Holmesy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheInfiniteOdyssey Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Needs to sort out our set-pieces. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said: Howay man he's had two windows where we added 3 first-teamers at a time. One of the windows we were going to have to balance things out a bit. Having a go at any of our transfer activity the last 14 months. Give your head a shake man. Pretty much my thoughts exactly, people love turning on others as soon as things don't go 100% our way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiston Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, Vinny Green Balls said: so brave of you. Those villagers I met in Niger standing up to the jihadists could use some of your courage. You give TED talks? You ever going to add anything or just bitch and cry about my comments Like my own personal fan over here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 the main concern I have is that our high press and counter-press have all but gone recently. It’s very low energy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Just now, Optimistic Nut said: Howay man he's had two windows where we added 3 first-teamers at a time. One of the windows we were going to have to balance things out a bit. Having a go at any of our transfer activity the last 14 months. Give your head a shake man. If we were serious about sustaining a top 4 push we would’ve done more in the January window. It’s perfectly logical that they see top 4 as a bonus this season and going for it was not their intention and they would be content with us slipping to 7-8 like we may have targeted at the start of the season. But I think January was a missed opportunity and likely a mistake. That is also a logical conclusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, TheInfiniteOdyssey said: Needs to sort out our set-pieces. Offensive and defensive. Need someone else to take an attacking set piece sometimes man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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