Conjo Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 I normally don't really care about the league cup. I find it silly to have two domestic cups on top of the league and would ideally like to see it scrapped and rather increase the prize pool and have a CL spot up for grabs for the FA cup instead. That being said, any cup, if we win it, which means we've beat Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea and two of either Fulham, Everton, Liverpool and West Ham, is a fucking great achievement. Without checking, I bet there won't be many league cup or FA cup winners the last 20+ years who's had a tougher cup win than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 9 hours ago, McDog said: We all know how important the League Cup is in the hierarchy of football. Not all that high. Look, I completely understand your position, you want silverware, I get it. Get the foundation built to create a team that always challenges in every competition. It’s higher than finishing 4th in terms of hierarchy. I can remember League Cup winners far easier than I remember who finished 4th Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 5 hours ago, Conjo said: I normally don't really care about the league cup. I find it silly to have two domestic cups on top of the league and would ideally like to see it scrapped and rather increase the prize pool and have a CL spot up for grabs for the FA cup instead. That being said, any cup, if we win it, which means we've beat Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea and two of either Fulham, Everton, Liverpool and West Ham, is a fucking great achievement. Without checking, I bet there won't be many league cup or FA cup winners the last 20+ years who's had a tougher cup win than that. Having fewer opportunities to actually win things so that the accountants are kept sweet doesn’t seem like a good idea at all to me - it sounds like exactly the sort of thinking which has damaged the FA Cup and League Cup and UEFA Cup, and saw the Cup Winners Cup abolished. I’ve no sympathy with those who sneer at competitions (the actual point of competitive sport) - and we’re definitely in no position to do it. I didn’t dream of Newcastle finishing 4th as a kid - which is when most find their love of the game - I dreamed of seeing us win at Wembley. No bairn fantasising about playing for Newcastle is playing for CL qualification in their head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: It’s higher than finishing 4th in terms of hierarchy. I can remember League Cup winners far easier than I remember who finished 4th Other than Swansea, for about 20 years it's mainly been the same 4 clubs since Boro. (Chelsea, Man U, Man C and Liverpool). Break the top 4 and you're more than likely going to win it once the squad improves etc. Won't be long. Swansea, Spurs and Birmingham the only 3 clubs other than those 4 in 20 seasons. Two mid-table Championship clubs. Would be interesting to see where Spurs fans rank their win amongst the top 4 finishes, title challenges and CL runs/Final? Edited December 19, 2023 by Optimistic Nut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 I know it’s probably because people are looking bigger picture. And that we should be challenging on all fronts in the next say 5-10 years in regards to sliverware. But I do find it really odd. That after years of not winning anything. Anyone can be so blasé about another potential cup final and also finally getting that monkey off our back and winning a trophy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Optimistic Nut said: Other than Swansea, for about 20 years it's mainly been the same 4 clubs since Boro. (Chelsea, Man U, Man C and Liverpool). Break the top 4 and you're more than likely going to win it once the squad improves etc. Won't be long. Spurs have won one trophy in 30 years despite multiple CL qualifications - and still having a much higher income. And that LC win 2008 came before they were qualifying for the CL - multiple qualifications has done nowt for their trophy cabinet. I do think folks are far too confident about the inevitability of trophy wins. It certainly isn’t something that we should just leave for another day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 9 hours ago, The College Dropout said: Keep in mind - he only joins because of the takeover. Ditto Bruno G and his 5 goals. The January window wasn't perfect and we missed out on a lot of our top targets. But you spend £130m on a PL squad with at least 2-3 PL quality players already there. You should stay up. He did v. well to have us 11th. But to finish 18th or below - considering the investment in January - would be a gigantic failure of QPR/Chelsea proportions. Without the takeover, we probably would have been stuck with Bruce until it was too late anyway. I think people have forgotten how grim it was in January 2022. I'm not convinced that many managers would have gotten us out of that horrible mess as easily as Eddie Howe did. Of course the spending can't be dismissed (even though 15% of the outlay was on Chris fucking Wood), but getting some of those players, who were utterly hopeless a few months before, to look like PL quality was not far from being a miracle. It was just as impressive as 4th last year for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decky Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 We should definitely go stronger tonight than Saturday, if we’re forced to rotate majorly for the next few games. Remember the cup final last year? That’s what this means and we can’t just put a weakened team out and say ah well if we go out. The top four chase is massively important as well but we’re playing two teams who are struggling. Although Luton have been impressive against the bigger sides this season they still have only 2 wins and 9 points, Forest aren’t a whole pile better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Steve Bruce managed only three games fewer than Eddie Howe. And yes, I think it isn’t a completely fair comparison re games won due to the difference in investment and attractiveness of the club. But given had the same number of games as Howe, why were we still watching Joelinton and Almiron being shite, Longstaff being a glorified water carrier, and Fabian Schar being sat in the reserves with the manager picking Ciaran Clark ahead of him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 50 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Having fewer opportunities to actually win things so that the accountants are kept sweet doesn’t seem like a good idea at all to me - it sounds like exactly the sort of thinking which has damaged the FA Cup and League Cup and UEFA Cup, and saw the Cup Winners Cup abolished. I’ve no sympathy with those who sneer at competitions (the actual point of competitive sport) - and we’re definitely in no position to do it. I didn’t dream of Newcastle finishing 4th as a kid - which is when most find their love of the game - I dreamed of seeing us win at Wembley. No bairn fantasising about playing for Newcastle is playing for CL qualification in their head. No other countries in Europe at least has more than one cup. It's just stupid. Can't change my mind on that. Why not make another cup or two then so more teams have a chance of winning something? Nah, have one cup, make it more attractive for the teams (CL spot for grabs) and increase the prize pool (preferably so more goes to lower league sides) and I think the overall quality of the entertainment goes up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Woke up. Reading Bruce and Howe comparisons. Back to bed I go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, Conjo said: No other countries in Europe at least has more than one cup. It's just stupid. Can't change my mind on that. Why not make another cup or two then so more teams have a chance of winning something? Nah, have one cup, make it more attractive for the teams (CL spot for grabs) and increase the prize pool (preferably so more goes to lower league sides) and I think the overall quality of the entertainment goes up. Well, no other European countries except France, Portugal … Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 PS who gives a shite if other countries have it or not. It’s of zero consequence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 10 hours ago, WideopenMag said: Tbh amother factor is really wanting to win a trophy and share the experience with my dad, we joke it probably won't happen before he dies. Every year that goes on it seems less and less likely. I can relate to this, I was 12 when we last won a trophy, and even that was a competition where the best teams didn't enter. The League Cup is a notch above that. It would be great to win something before I pop my clogs (not imminent, by the way), but this current journey is the best of times and I'm enjoying it whatever. We now have a manager with the capability of using the passion behind the club without being burdened by its hopes and expectations. He keeps his judgement on firm ground, and creates a kind of protective ring around the squad which keeps them focused. If we lose, it won't be through a lack of composure, or fear. This is a team that delivers its best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Well, no other European countries except France, Portugal … The second cup (equivalent to league cup) in France was discontinued in 2020. Edit: According to Wiki to prevent fixture congenstion. I'll stand corrected on Portugal. 37 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: PS who gives a shite if other countries have it or not. It’s of zero consequence. It's still stupid and redundant, in my subjective opinion. Edited December 19, 2023 by Conjo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 If we win it I hope we don't even record it in our history books tbh. It'll ruin my year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Conjo said: The second cup (equivalent to league cup) in France was discontinued in 2020. Edit: According to Wiki to prevent fixture congenstion. I'll stand corrected on Portugal. It's still stupid and redundant, in my subjective opinion. We won’t persuade each other on this one, of course. But the League Cup exists because of the unusual way that English football’s governing bodies were set up - the FA and the Football League are of course separate entities. And the Football League has been fucked over enough by the breakaway PL - done entirely for reasons of greed. I don’t see why the Football League should be further dicked over. I’m 100% with you on giving the FA Cup a CL place, BTW. English football of course did try to have a fourth cup competition, but it really didn’t work, no-one could be persuaded to care about the ZDS Cup Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ9 Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 I would be in favour of a little rotation tonight but not a lot tbh. I want us to win both games. Would be up for something like this Dubs Krafth Lascelles Burn Livra Bruno Longstaff Ritchie/Miley Miggy Wilson Hall The subs bench will be interesting but I would use Miley, Trippier, Botman and Gordon after 60+ minutes if available Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Aren't Chelsea absolutely shite against low blocks? Sitting deep for 45 and getting some big guns on at half time to go for it sounds pretty viable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 9 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said: Aren't Chelsea absolutely shite against low blocks? Sitting deep for 45 and getting some big guns on at half time to go for it sounds pretty viable. Sort of what we did against City at home. Not sure how much of that was by design, mind. But it worked on that occasion. I don't want us to go with a really weakened team. But we could field a strong enough side all things considered. But still have the option of Gordon, Trippier and perhaps Isak as options off the bench. Who all sound like they're struggling to complete 90 minutes and are playing through niggly injuries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 58 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said: Aren't Chelsea absolutely shite against low blocks? Sitting deep for 45 and getting some big guns on at half time to go for it sounds pretty viable. They’re just absolutely shite in general tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Gallowgate Toon said: Aren't Chelsea absolutely shite against low blocks? Sitting deep for 45 and getting some big guns on at half time to go for it sounds pretty viable. Honestly, as bad as we've been this season, we annihilated Chelsea. I can't see any other result than a comfortable Newcastle win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee_Johnny Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 On 14/12/2023 at 12:17, BullyDogs said: General hypothetic question here seeing as we were very interested in him before appointing Howe but would anyone swap Emery for him and do we think Emery would have done any better in the same space of time and further on? Are you muzzled and sterilised? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoneys Tache Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said: We won’t persuade each other on this one, of course. But the League Cup exists because of the unusual way that English football’s governing bodies were set up - the FA and the Football League are of course separate entities. And the Football League has been fucked over enough by the breakaway PL - done entirely for reasons of greed. I don’t see why the Football League should be further dicked over. I’m 100% with you on giving the FA Cup a CL place, BTW. English football of course did try to have a fourth cup competition, but it really didn’t work, no-one could be persuaded to care about the ZDS Cup I warmed to it when it became the Zimod cup though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Gallowgate Toon said: Aren't Chelsea absolutely shite against low blocks? Sitting deep for 45 and getting some big guns on at half time to go for it sounds pretty viable. I was thinking a repeat of the Man City game like. Try and make it a 45 minute game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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