Eddie Howe

[andycap]

2 hours ago, Theregulars said:

Calling Tino a benchwarmer after 4/6 starts this season also another good wheeze 

I said over last season and so far this season. 

[timeEd32]

24 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

When we hired Howe, the Bournemouth fan on here mentioned that he'd be interested to see how it played out, because Howe liked control over everything, and he actually left Bournemouth because the club wanted to change some things as far as how things functioned behind the scenes.

 

We have since heard there was tension between Howe and Ashworth. This was only reported after the debacle with Man Utd broke, and I wasn't having it at the time (however, it had to be revisited with all that emerged since then, and with what the Bournemouth fan said when Howe first joined).

 

The next thing we know Amanda and Mehrdad were out, with reports that they were 'getting in the way' of things being taken forward at the club. Apparently this was what the CEO Eales shared with PIF. This was when I looked a bit more into what the issue with Ashworth was, and it was stated that Howe was working closely with Amanda and Mehrdad and had marginalised Ashworth.

 

Before that had all settled down fully, we then finally bring in Mitchell, with reports early on that Howe was annoyed he wasn't consulted or told about it. Then came his interview that he needed to be allowed to work as he had been, this prior to even meeting with Mitchell to hash all that out. 

 

We then got the interview from Eales where he spoke of wanting Howe to focus on things on the pitch, rightfully so as the head coach, and that left to Howe he would spend all his time on a lot of other stuff, as I presume he had been doing previously, all stemming from the original period with just Amanda and Mehrdad.

 

Since then we have had an interview from Mitchell that mostly praised Howe's work and style of football, but once again reiterated a desire for Howe to focus on the head coach role, again, as should be the case.

 

Ever since then it's been reports of problems between Howe and Mitchell.

 

From my perspective it appears Howe has not been able to adjust to the introduction of a DOF.

 

Ashworth came from a club that has the best data model going, and specialised in signing players from undervalued markets, especially South America. Why was he not able to implement any of that with us? I doubt he would have been able to if there was conflict behind the scenes. Seems to me he instead opted for an exit.

 

And so all that to let you know how and why I ended up with my view on things.

 

 

Appreciate the explanation. Makes more sense than what seemed like a sudden u-turn. I still think you're making a lot of assumptions that cast Eddie as the villain in this story.

 

The Bournemouth fan post was shockingly on the money about everything else, so that section is concerning but accepting it as truth now also assumes zero ability to change or grow on Eddie's part.

[KaKa]

8 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

Appreciate the explanation. Makes more sense than what seemed like a sudden u-turn. I still think you're making a lot of assumptions that cast Eddie as the villain in this story.

 

The Bournemouth fan post was shockingly on the money about everything else, so that section is concerning but accepting it as truth now also assumes zero ability to change or grow on Eddie's part.

 

That Bournemouth fan post is especially alarming because it was shared right when we hired Howe and well before there was even a hint of any issues.

 

The post wasn't even negative. It just added that bit about control as a bit of a foot note.

 

I hope more than anything they can all figure it out and work together, but I'm increasingly less confident about it.

[Upthemags]

3 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

That Bournemouth fan post is especially alarming because it was shared right when we hired Howe and well before there was even a hint of any issues.

 

The post wasn't even negative. It just added that bit about control as a bit of a foot note.

 

I hope more than anything they can all figure it out and work together, but I'm increasingly less confident about it.

I don't understand why there has to be a "villain" at all, so to speak. Different managers have different working styles. Howe likes a lot of control. Whether it fits with the club's long term vision has no bearing on whether he's some sort of bad person or not - just his management style.

[The College Dropout]

18 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

Appreciate the explanation. Makes more sense than what seemed like a sudden u-turn. I still think you're making a lot of assumptions that cast Eddie as the villain in this story.

 

The Bournemouth fan post was shockingly on the money about everything else, so that section is concerning but accepting it as truth now also assumes zero ability to change or grow on Eddie's part.

It’s not painting him as the villain.  Howe is a club builder and he wants to keep building. 
 

It just may not be approach for our leadership team.  
 

To add to Kaka’s excellent post. Remember the rumours that Eddie was pissed off with Ashworth for not getting Joelinton a new contract? I always thought selling a Joelinton at peak value was a good idea. I think Ashworth had multiple FFP exit strategies including selling Joelinton.  That’s sensible.  Howe being a coach doesn’t prioritise that. Joelinton is key in the short term so give him that new contract.  We do need other people at the club to prioritise the clubs medium term health.  
 

Staveley was great at getting deals done. But financial and football judiciary isn’t her specialty.  

[Shearergol]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

It’s not painting him as the villain.  Howe is a club builder and he wants to keep building. 
 

It just may not be approach for our leadership team.  
 

To add to Kaka’s excellent post. Remember the rumours that Eddie was pissed off with Ashworth for not getting Joelinton a new contract? I always thought selling a Joelinton at peak value was a good idea. I think Ashworth had multiple FFP exit strategies including selling Joelinton.  That’s sensible.  Howe being a coach doesn’t prioritise that. Joelinton is key in the short term so give him that new contract.  We do need other people at the club to prioritise the clubs medium term health.  
 

Staveley was great at getting deals done. But financial and football judiciary isn’t her specialty.  

I don’t understand why the club didn’t consult directly with you tbh.

[Myleftboot]

59 minutes ago, Memphis said:

In all three away matches this year, we've trailed at the half. We have not scored a goal in the first half away from home. We have the third-worst xG differential (-0.61), behind only Brentford and Ipswich Town. We have only won the xG battle once all season, and that was against Wolves...barely. We have the third-fewest touches in the opponent penalty area while allowing the second-most touches in the penalty area.

 

In spite of that, we have only lost once - and yeah, we perhaps could have snatched a point against Fulham. 

 

But the underlying numbers are telling the story of a team that isn't creating enough good chances, isn't stopping opponents from creating enough good chances, and has relied on luck, goalkeeping, and blockbuster goals outside the box to win matches. That cannot be sustained. So now the onus is on Howe to make some significant changes. No one should be safe from being dropped. We have used the fewest number of players in the PL this year (19 total); whether we have enough depth to play more is debatable but we already have a midfield that looks tired. I have backed and will continue to back Howe, I think he's a brilliant manager and has been a huge blessing to the club. Still, there are enough significant warning signs that some major changes are needed before our form takes a huge dip. 

Agree. We’ve had 102 shots against us in the 6 games we’ve played so far.

[timeEd32]

We've only played five games, three of them away, and one of the home games largely with 10 men so many, many caveats apply. That said, the stats at the moment show what we're seeing - opponents are spending far more time in our penalty area, we're struggling to get the ball forward and into dangerous positions, we are easy to play against (2nd worst in the league in tackles + interceptions behind only City, who just defend by having the ball), and we're sloppy.

 

In 2022/23 we were 4th in the league in touches in opp. penalty area.

In 2023/24 we were 5th.

This season we are 18th (closer to Ipswich in 20th than Everton in 12th)

 

In 2022/23 we had the 2nd fewest touches in our own penalty area and opponents had the 5th fewest touches.

In 2023/24 we had the 5th fewest and 8th fewest, respectively.

This season we have the third most touches in our own penalty area and opponents have the 2nd most touches in our box.

 

In 2022/23 we were 6th in progressive carries into the penalty area.

In 2023/24 we were 8th.

This season we are 14th.

 

In 2022/23 we were 4th in passes into the penalty area.

In 2023/24 we were 5th

This season we are 12th.

 

In 2022/23 we had the 6th fewest number of clearances.

In 2023/24 we also had the 6th fewest.

This season we have the 4th most.

 

In 2022/23 we were 6th in shot creating actions.

In 2023/24 we were 7th.

This season we are 15th.

 

In 2022/23 we committed nine errors all season (mistakes leading to a shot), which was 4th best.

In 2023/24 we committed 16 errors, which was tied for 8th best.

This season we have committed six errors already, tied for the most.

 

In 2022/23 we were 1st in aerial duels won % (56%).

In 2023/24 we were 6th (52%).

This season we are 6th (52.4%).

 

In 2022/23 we faced the 5th fewest crosses into the penalty area and had the 4th highest % of crosses stopped by the GK (7.9%).

In 2023/24 we faced the 6th fewest crosses and had the 10th highest % of them stopped by the GK (6.7%).

This season we have faced the most crosses into the penalty area and have the 6th worst % of crosses stopped by the GK (4.7%).

[TRon]

3 hours ago, Memphis said:

In all three away matches this year, we've trailed at the half. We have not scored a goal in the first half away from home. We have the third-worst xG differential (-0.61), behind only Brentford and Ipswich Town. We have only won the xG battle once all season, and that was against Wolves...barely. We have the third-fewest touches in the opponent penalty area while allowing the second-most touches in the penalty area.

 

In spite of that, we have only lost once - and yeah, we perhaps could have snatched a point against Fulham. 

 

But the underlying numbers are telling the story of a team that isn't creating enough good chances, isn't stopping opponents from creating enough good chances, and has relied on luck, goalkeeping, and blockbuster goals outside the box to win matches. That cannot be sustained. So now the onus is on Howe to make some significant changes. No one should be safe from being dropped. We have used the fewest number of players in the PL this year (19 total); whether we have enough depth to play more is debatable but we already have a midfield that looks tired. I have backed and will continue to back Howe, I think he's a brilliant manager and has been a huge blessing to the club. Still, there are enough significant warning signs that some major changes are needed before our form takes a huge dip. 

 

 

Great post. Confirms what most of us are seeing with our own eyes...and while we are all appreciative that our points tally is still very respectable, you are right, it is not sustainable. We can't keep getting wins by hitting 25 yard worldies.

 

Eddie Howe has acknowledged this, he's not been happy with aspects of our play, and I think we'll see some changes in how we set up sooner rather than later.

[Kanji]

31 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

We've only played five games, three of them away, and one of the home games largely with 10 men so many, many caveats apply. That said, the stats at the moment show what we're seeing - opponents are spending far more time in our penalty area, we're struggling to get the ball forward and into dangerous positions, we are easy to play against (2nd worst in the league in tackles + interceptions behind only City, who just defend by having the ball), and we're sloppy.

 

In 2022/23 we were 4th in the league in touches in opp. penalty area.

In 2023/24 we were 5th.

This season we are 18th (closer to Ipswich in 20th than Everton in 12th)

 

In 2022/23 we had the 2nd fewest touches in our own penalty area and opponents had the 5th fewest touches.

In 2023/24 we had the 5th fewest and 8th fewest, respectively.

This season we have the third most touches in our own penalty area and opponents have the 2nd most touches in our box.

 

In 2022/23 we were 6th in progressive carries into the penalty area.

In 2023/24 we were 8th.

This season we are 14th.

 

In 2022/23 we were 4th in passes into the penalty area.

In 2023/24 we were 5th

This season we are 12th.

 

In 2022/23 we had the 6th fewest number of clearances.

In 2023/24 we also had the 6th fewest.

This season we have the 4th most.

 

In 2022/23 we were 6th in shot creating actions.

In 2023/24 we were 7th.

This season we are 15th.

 

In 2022/23 we committed nine errors all season (mistakes leading to a shot), which was 4th best.

In 2023/24 we committed 16 errors, which was tied for 8th best.

This season we have committed six errors already, tied for the most.

 

In 2022/23 we were 1st in aerial duels won % (56%).

In 2023/24 we were 6th (52%).

This season we are 6th (52.4%).

 

In 2022/23 we faced the 5th fewest crosses into the penalty area and had the 4th highest % of crosses stopped by the GK (7.9%).

In 2023/24 we faced the 6th fewest crosses and had the 10th highest % of them stopped by the GK (6.7%).

This season we have faced the most crosses into the penalty area and have the 6th worst % of crosses stopped by the GK (4.7%).

 

christ, that is grim reading! 

[Lush Vlad]

7 minutes ago, Kanji said:

 

christ, that is grim reading! 

It certainly is. But isn’t Howe renowned for being meticulous? Very analytical and data driven with his coaching set up based on all the previous interviews and comments. 

There is no way they are not aware of the issues. I think based on his body of work here so far. I would have confidence in him figuring out what is going wrong (quite a lot ATM) and turning it round. 
 

It’s not ideal getting it so wrong to

start with. But the personnel changes and subs at HT the last two games show he is looking to tweak things early and not just let it continue. It feels like he has made more changes to the starting XI than usual over the first 5 games and all. Which could be perceived as a good or a bad thing. But again, looks like he is trying to adjust and get us performing better. Whereas at times in the past. He could be stubborn with the subs and persisting with the same or very similar starting lineup every game. 
 

I think we have played well in patches. Start and the end of the Wolves and Bournemouth games. Early on against Spurs. Only seen extended highlights from Saturday. But the second half looked ok. After one of our worst first halves in months/years. 
 

I suppose the main issue is. How do we start playing with some consistency and not playing like shit for an hour of the game or more? 
 

Hopefully he can figure that out sooner rather than later. As this 5 game stretch and then quite a few games after that. Do not look easy. 

[80]

3 hours ago, KaKa said:

Ashworth came from a club that has the best data model going, and specialised in signing players from undervalued markets, especially South America. Why was he not able to implement any of that with us? I doubt he would have been able to if there was conflict behind the scenes. Seems to me he instead opted for an exit.

Specifically on this point, the suggestion is he wasn't able to implement this because it wasn't his data model, it was gambling supremo and Brighton owner Tony Bloom's system, and it existed pre and post his time there. I highly doubt Howe was putting blockers on having a scouting and analysis network like theirs. Even before he joined us, it was regularly noted in more in depth articles that scouting was not Ashworth's strong suit.

 

It's not immediately relevant, but as I write I'm just having a flashback to - assuming the documentary was a halfway faithful reflection of reality - Ashworth pressuring Staveley over the phone to get the deal done for premium-priced English kid Anthony Gordon. At a time when we were already tiptoeing around the edges of PSR, particularly considering we had no guarantee of Champions' League football and it's associated income at that time in January '23. So it's not like he was a total hostage to fortune.

 

3 hours ago, KaKa said:

I think Nickson had a bit more influence early doors, with Howe having been out of management for a little bit.

 

I recall Nickson getting mentioned regarding having watched Bruno even when he was in Brazil. He was also given credit for having had a lot of information on Botman who he had been following.

It would appear that if anyone still at the club was getting dug out and undermined by Mitchell for his track record, it was Nickson though? If you want to take Hope's reporting seriously on this whole situation re: Eddie's disgruntlement with a DOF, then Nickson was very much one of the figures who felt put out over the interview. He's overseen our recruitment for many many years and accordingly was made to sound like a putz.

 

 

Edited September 23 by 80

[CPL]

3 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

That Bournemouth fan post is especially alarming because it was shared right when we hired Howe and well before there was even a hint of any issues.

 

The post wasn't even negative. It just added that bit about control as a bit of a foot note.

 

I hope more than anything they can all figure it out and work together, but I'm increasingly less confident about it.

Is there a link to the original post? I did read it at the time but would be interesting to read it again. 

[timeEd32]

8 minutes ago, CPL said:

Is there a link to the original post? I did read it at the time but would be interesting to read it again. 

 

 

[KaKa]

42 minutes ago, 80 said:

Specifically on this point, the suggestion is he wasn't able to implement this because it wasn't his data model, it was gambling supremo and Brighton owner Tony Bloom's system, and it existed pre and post his time there. I highly doubt Howe was putting blockers on having a scouting and analysis network like theirs. Even before he joined us, it was regularly noted in more in depth articles that scouting was not Ashworth's strong suit.

 

 

Just to clarify. I did not expect him to implement Brightons data model as yes, Bloom owns that property.

 

It's more that he would have understood the importance of data analysis in recruitment, and I would have expected him to put that in place in some capacity. There are sports data and analysis companies that partner with clubs and implement these services.

[Coffee_Johnny]

8 hours ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

I can't see it changing anytime soon though. I think we're too one dimensional in how we set up & play and don't have the personnel to change that because we didn't sign anyone that allows us to, this summer or last. 

 

Like I say I can't see a logical reason why I can be certain we'll improve other than blind faith.

 

 

 

What about probability? Probability of good players finding form. We’ve got too many just a bit lacking at the moment. They’ve not become less good players (at least it’s unlikely) so in all probability they’ll pick-up. Hopefully all at the same time next Saturday! 

[HaydnNUFC]

7 minutes ago, Coffee_Johnny said:

What about probability? Probability of good players finding form. We’ve got too many just a bit lacking at the moment. They’ve not become less good players (at least it’s unlikely) so in all probability they’ll pick-up. Hopefully all at the same time next Saturday! 

 

I really hope so, mate.

[Whitley mag]

On paper one defeat looks a massive overreaction if we’d won on Saturday we’d be top of the league, it would have definitely been papering over the cracks though.

 

Midfield is the major issue and was before Tonali was banned last season, nobody knows their position, it’s disjointed and teams can get straight at our back 4 with one pass.

 

The above was an issue for large parts of last season, we now also have our star centre forward isolated and feeding on scraps.

 

The upcoming fixtures will make, or break the season and tell us if where going to be competitive, transfer strategy aside Howe doesn’t know his best 11 at the minute and needs to work it out fast.

 

 

Edited September 23 by Whitley mag

[timeEd32]

The fact we don’t know our best XI yet is the thing giving me the most hope at the moment. We have options in most positions so there are a lot of combinations.
 

If Eddie and team can figure that out and correct a couple mental / physical ailments among our key players we could be off and running.

[80]

1 hour ago, KaKa said:

 

Just to clarify. I did not expect him to implement Brightons data model as yes, Bloom owns that property.

 

It's more that he would have understood the importance of data analysis in recruitment, and I would have expected him to put that in place in some capacity. There are sports data and analysis companies that partner with clubs and implement these services.

As I recall we did partner with StatsBomb - and I think another? - but whether it was used well or we're still with them, I don't know.

[Menace]

Had we gone top - the league really doesn't tell the whole story tbh. We've been bailed out on numerous times by a Harvey Barnes belter - this model wouldn't have been sustainable similar to the Miggy purple patch. I think we're lucky to be 6th. The midfield looks very disjointed, our striker doesn't seem to be getting into positions and getting fed as freely as last season. Pope has 2 clangers into the season already. Bruno hasn't even kicked into second gear yet.

[r0cafella]

17 minutes ago, Menace said:

Had we gone top - the league really doesn't tell the whole story tbh. We've been bailed out on numerous times by a Harvey Barnes belter - this model wouldn't have been sustainable similar to the Miggy purple patch. I think we're lucky to be 6th. The midfield looks very disjointed, our striker doesn't seem to be getting into positions and getting fed as freely as last season. Pope has 2 clangers into the season already. Bruno hasn't even kicked into second gear yet.

All good points, I think people are generally concerned because we’ve looked hopelessly away from home for almost a year now. It’s one thing to lose but we’ve consistently performed badly and seemingly lost our identity. 

[Menace]

The injuries papered over the cracks and rightly so - but even last season when we had a decent starting 11, the performances weren't great and haven't been for a good while. No idea, maybe teams have learnt to sit back, maybe he's being cautious as to not further run players to the bones once again. Who knows.

[Shadow Puppets]

35 minutes ago, Menace said:

The injuries papered over the cracks and rightly so - but even last season when we had a decent starting 11, the performances weren't great and haven't been for a good while. No idea, maybe teams have learnt to sit back, maybe he's being cautious as to not further run players to the bones once again. Who knows.

Massively disagree that injuries papered over the cracks. We had some good to excellent performances last season, with injuries too, amongst the painful performances across December / January.

 

From memory we played well to excellent in decent chunks of all of these games…

 

- Villa at home

- much of Liverpool at home before and awful final 20

- City at home in LC

- Sheffield Utd away

- Burnley home

- Palace home

- Paris home and away

- Man Utd away LC

- Arsenal home

- Chelsea home

- Man Utd home

- Fulham home

- City home (despite eventually losing)

- Sunderland away

- Villa away

- Wolves home

- Everton home (then enter Paul Dummett)

- West Ham home second half

- Fulham away

- Spurs home

- Sheffield Utd home

- Burnley away

- Brentford away

 

This season something different is happening… either we’re just not up to speed yet (which is a common Howe start to the season) or something just hasn’t worked in training / something has changed in training. Bunce’s influence perhaps leading to less intensity?

 

 

 

 

[SUPERTOON]

13 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

That Bournemouth fan post is especially alarming because it was shared right when we hired Howe and well before there was even a hint of any issues.

 

The post wasn't even negative. It just added that bit about control as a bit of a foot note.

 

I hope more than anything they can all figure it out and work together, but I'm increasingly less confident about it.

Didn’t Howe turn down Celtic because he couldn’t bring Richard Hughes with him as sporting director?