Eddie Howe

[Heron]

18 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

Did recruitment let him down in the summer, or was he part of the issue, does backing him in January mean giving him players like Guehi and Elanga ?

 

The most likely scenario is that he’s still here in January, however any signings will fit in with Mitchell’s strategy and that in itself might bring things to a head again.

Are we now questioning Howes signings too? Cause I thought Trippier, Burn, Bruno, Botman and Isak were all excellent and Tonali hasn't had much time either. Am I wrong?

 

Or is it just that now we're saying they weren't his signings because we are now deciding he is ultimately not the man to take us forward from this point in time?

 

Are Guehi and Elanga now bad players? Or are they simply out of form or in out of form sides?

 

Does that mean Gordon is now shite and shouldn't be signed by say...Liverpool and Isak wouldn't get in the Forest side (again playing devils advocate)...

 

 

Edited October 27 by Heron

[KaKa]

16 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

Did recruitment let him down in the summer, or was he part of the issue, does backing him in January mean giving him players like Guehi and Elanga ?

 

The most likely scenario is that he’s still here in January, however any signings will fit in with Mitchell’s strategy and that in itself might bring things to a head again.

 

This recruitment let him down thing is unbelievable really.

 

Even though he keeps telling us there's only a few that can improve us, while we fail to address issues in the squad over multiple windows now.

 

But I've even seen today that apparently he's just saying there's only a few that can improve us to make the players we have feel good.

 

So many excuses.

[Heron]

5 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

This recruitment let him down thing is unbelievable really.

 

Even though he keeps telling us there's only a few that can improve us, while we fail to address issues in the squad over multiple windows now.

 

But I've even seen today that apparently he's just saying there's only a few that can improve us to make the players we have feel good.

 

So many excuses.

Howe is reluctant to spend on players he's uncertain about (with regards to their capability to improve our first 11).

 

Given FFP and all that is going on with that, it is both wise and pertinent to do so - should you wish to follow the rules.

 

Perhaps this is ultimately too safe, and time will tell, but ultimately spunking loads on players who potentially do not make the desired effect and potentially can not have the desired effect would see the club in a worse position than "playing it safe" if they do not pay off.

 

I am reading in this thread that now his transfers are questionable, his tactics aren't good enough, he is stubborn and won't change and that he basically can't motivate the team now.

 

So all in all - folk are collectively saying he is nigh on useless as a manager.

 

And you say "so many excuses"...

 

It's going both ways, and reality is somewhere in the middle of that I am sure.

 

 

Edited October 27 by Heron

[HaydnNUFC]

5 minutes ago, Heron said:

Are we now questioning Howes signings too? Cause I thought Trippier, Burn, Bruno, Botman and Isak were all excellent and Tonali hasn't had much time either. Am I wrong?

 

Or is it just that now we're saying they weren't his signings because we think he is ultimately not the man to take us forward?

 

Are Guehi and Elanga now bad players? Or are they simply out of form or in out of form sides?

 

Does that mean Gordon is now shite and shouldn't be signed by say...Liverpool and Isak wouldn't get in the Forest side (again playing devils advocate)...

 

 

 

 

I don't think people are questioning their abilities, but rather the strategy behind signing them and implementing them into the team. Especially from summer 2023. Tonali is a top class player but that midfield 3 looks unbalanced. Perhaps more time is needed but I personally didn't think it looked right before Tonali's ban and we've won 1 game out of 8 with that as the midfield 3. Tonali also continues to be substituted by the manager. Unsure if he's the profile we needed in midfield given the collective recognition that a more designated DM would be suited.

 

Barnes is another but the debate has been done many times now this season. Good finisher, but not the winger on the side we need(ed). He also continues to be substituted by the manager when he starts. 

 

Tino is a good young full back, but our system relies on Trippier still as seen by our appearance of more balance when Trippier starts due to a lack of evolution. Tino is a more defensive full back, but whilst our RW options continue to be as poor as they are our right hand side with Tino at RB may as well not exist offensively.

 

Guehi and Elanga aren't the players that'd have sorted this either. Especially at the fees quoted given the constant mention of PSR about us.

[Holmesy]

17 minutes ago, Rod said:

OK, let's say I agree with you, especially the the centre backs (see how easy it is to spell centre backs).  Do you therefore think we should abandon our whole game plan and play with our defence on the 18 yard line or replace the CB's (sorry) with quicker personnel?  Where are these quicker/faster centre backs?

I think we should adapt our approach depending on who we’re playing against. We can’t change the centre backs right now, so play more sensibly against teams with those particular attributes to negate our defensive frailties. 
We could’ve be 2 down with 15 minutes, and at one point Dan Burn pushed up into their half. I think it was for their disallowed goal maybe. Inevitably, it led to us getting caught and him lumbering back with no chance of catching the attacker. Fucking menta!

I think we’re at a point where we have been analysed to within an inch of our lives by every opposition team, and because we have no new players we have nothing new for them to adapt to. So the only option available is to do something different with the players we have. Right?

[Rod]

17 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

All in jest, it’s only football at the end of the day.

 

1 minute ago, Holmesy said:

I think we should adapt our approach depending on who we’re playing against. We can’t change the centre backs right now, so play more sensibly against teams with those particular attributes to negate our defensive frailties. 
We could’ve be 2 down with 15 minutes, and at one point Dan Burn pushed up into their half. I think it was for their disallowed goal maybe. Inevitably, it led to us getting caught and him lumbering back with no chance of catching the attacker. Fucking menta!

I think we’re at a point where we have been analysed to within an inch of our lives by every opposition team, and because we have no new players we have nothing new for them to adapt to. So the only option available is to do something different with the players we have. Right?

Mmmmmmmmm ........

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, Heron said:

Howe is reluctant to spend on players he's uncertain about (with regards to their capability to improve our first 11).

 

Given FFP and all that is going on with that, it is both wise and pertinent to do so - should you wish to follow the rules.

 

Perhaps this is ultimately too safe, and time will tell, but ultimately clunking loads on players who potentially do not make the desired effect and potentially can not have the desired effect would see the club in a worse position than "playing it safe".

 

We have a scouting department for a reason, might as well get rid of them if we're only going to go for guaranteed players, whoever those are.

 

Why the assumption that we will be 'ultimately clunking loads on players who potentially do not make the desired effect'? 

 

So that's the only other outcome? Funny how other clubs manage to get players in from elsewhere for better value, that perform well for them, but it's apparently too hard for us.

 

Excuses, excuses, excuses ...

 

 

[Nine]

The argument is Howe is very averse to risk when it comes to recruitment, but then goes and plays a massive risk by all his eggs in the Guehi basket.. it doesn’t make much sense. If it’s true that Howe only wanted Guehi and had no other serious targets then it feels more like a power play than anything else, it’s a ridiculous way to manage a transfer window. He will have known better than anyone the implications of not making that signing.. 

 

There was something very wrong after Stavely left in the summer.

 

 

Edited October 27 by Nine

[Heron]

1 minute ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

I don't think people are questioning their abilities, but rather the strategy behind signing them and implementing them into the team. Especially from summer 2023. Tonali is a top class player but that midfield 3 looks unbalanced. Perhaps more time is needed but I personally didn't think it looked right before Tonali's ban and we've won 1 game out of 8 with that as the midfield 3. Tonali also continues to be substituted by the manager. Unsure if he's the profile we needed in midfield given the collective recognition that a more designated DM would be suited.

 

Barnes is another but the debate has been done many times now this season. Good finisher, but not the winger on the side we need(ed). He also continues to be substituted by the manager when he starts. 

 

Tino is a good young full back, but our system relies on Trippier still as seen by our appearance of more balance when Trippier starts due to a lack of evolution. Tino is a more defensive full back, but whilst our RW options continue to be as poor as they are our right hand side with Tino at RB may as well not exist offensively.

 

Guehi and Elanga aren't the players that'd have sorted this either. Especially at the fees quoted given the constant mention of PSR about us.

Yet many folk take to the Sean Longstaff thread to berate him. Many take to the Tonali thread to berate Howe. Many wanted Tonali to start over Longstaff and it's not having the desired effect. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't (Howe).

 

Many have stated the lack of pace for our CBs as an issue, perhaps Guehi resolves that? Elanga is a RW and folk want a RW on here.

 

It seems to me Howe has at least looked at many of the things being suggested on here (albeit not all) yet when it doesn't work out folk blame Howe for trying them.

 

Now - I'm not saying he as looked at it all. He hasn't. I'm not saying Longstaff is better than Tonali. However, I am suggesting that folk maybe need a bit of humble pie for their own so called 'solutions' too, or are we saying we can afford those 'solutions' more time and not time for Eddie Howes...

 

 

[wfmk2]

He's lost his hunger and his mojo since the backroom changes.

[Heron]

7 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

We have a scouting department for a reason, might as well get rid of them if we're only going to go for guaranteed players, whoever those are.

 

Why the assumption that we will be 'ultimately clunking loads on players who potentially do not make the desired effect'? 

 

So that's the only other outcome? Funny how other clubs manage to get players in from elsewhere for better value, that perform well for them, but it's apparently too hard for us.

 

Excuses, excuses, excuses ...

 

 

Mitchell came into the club and said the transfer policy wasn't upto scratch. So what makes you think Howe would then sanction signings he wasn't absolutely sure of? That's on Mitchell...not Howe. The signings prior to this summer have all seemed fairly decent to me.

 

Nowt to do with excuses. They're valid reasons. They just don't fit your narrative.

 

 

Edited October 27 by Heron

[Nine]

3 minutes ago, wfmk2 said:

He's lost his hunger and his mojo since the backroom changes.

This is it I think, Stavely let him have the level of control he desired. The issue is one man cannot build a top club in his own vision in this day and age and if that is where PIF really want to take us then Howe won’t be a part of the long term picture.

I honestly expect he will be gone after this season if not before. 

 

 

 

Edited October 27 by Nine

[SUPERTOON]

Do people still think last summers transfer window was good ? It was the start of what we are seeing now imo. We failed to build on qualifying for the champions league and are now looking lost on and off the pitch.

[Heron]

1 minute ago, SUPERTOON said:

Do people still think last summers transfer window was good ? It was the start of what we are seeing now imo. We failed to build on qualifying for the champions league and are now looking lost on and off the pitch.

Do you think with Tonali available we'd have finished higher last season or perhaps got through the CL group?

[HaydnNUFC]

7 minutes ago, Heron said:

Yet many folk take to the Sean Longstaff thread to berate him. Many take to the Tonali thread to berate Howe. Many wanted Tonali to start over Longstaff and it's not having the desired effect. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't (Howe).

 

Many have stated the lack of pace for our CBs as an issue, perhaps Guehi resolves that? Elanga is a RW and folk want a RW on here.

 

It seems to me Howe has at least looked at many of the things being suggested on here (albeit not all) yet when it doesn't work out folk blame Howe for trying them.

 

Now - I'm not saying he as looked at it all. He hasn't. I'm not saying Longstaff is better than Tonali. However, I am suggesting that folk maybe need a bit of humble pie for their own so called 'solutions' too, or are we saying we can afford those 'solutions' more time and not time for Eddie Howes...

 

 

 

I mean, I haven't. But I don't think Sean Longstaff is good enough to be starting for a side that regularly plays in Europe. Or wants to be. 

 

At £70m for Guehi? Not a chance when the room amongst PSR is so small.

 

And Forest fans said they'd have driven Elanga up here for £50m due to a lack of consistent end product. He's more suited to a counter attacking side regardless imo, which we aren't. Its far more than just "wanting a RW and he is one". We need creativity on that side. And I don't get why we seem to be reluctant to explore markets outside the PL over the last few windows. We haven't had any reliable links outside of Thiaw and that total non starter of Tapsoba late in the window recently.

 

And he's tried solutions such as? Not sure what you mean here. If Tonali doesn't fit into his system, I'm unsure why he spent ~£55m on him. I think that's the point folk make around the recent signings.

 

 

Edited October 27 by HaydnNUFC

[SUPERTOON]

2 minutes ago, Heron said:

Do you think with Tonali available we'd have finished higher last season or perhaps got through the CL group?

Based on his form before his ban ? I’m not sure tbh (his ban may have effected his performances mind).

[SUPERTOON]

3 minutes ago, Heron said:

Do you think with Tonali available we'd have finished higher last season or perhaps got through the CL group?

I’ll ask you this, if the club could go back do you think we make those signings again? 

[wfmk2]

Making Bruno captain isn't proving to be a managerial masterstroke. 

[Whitley mag]

26 minutes ago, Heron said:

Are we now questioning Howes signings too? Cause I thought Trippier, Burn, Bruno, Botman and Isak were all excellent and Tonali hasn't had much time either. Am I wrong?

 

Or is it just that now we're saying they weren't his signings because we are now deciding he is ultimately not the man to take us forward from this point in time?

 

Are Guehi and Elanga now bad players? Or are they simply out of form or in out of form sides?

 

Does that mean Gordon is now shite and shouldn't be signed by say...Liverpool and Isak wouldn't get in the Forest side (again playing devils advocate)...

 

 

 

I don’t think any of the signings as individuals are bad players.

 

What I question is the positions and type of players he’s targeted, I also think playing it safe in the market is for clubs who have wriggle room with PSR, we haven’t got the income yet to pay premium prices for PL proven players in every position.

 

I think backing him in the summer with Guehi and Elanga would have compounded the previous summers bad window, yes we need a CB but not at 60 million and Elanga is another speed merchant with little end product.

 

 

 

 

[KaKa]

13 minutes ago, Heron said:

Mitchell came into the club and said the transfer policy wasn't upto scratch. So what makes you think Howe would them sanction signings he wasn't absolutely sure of? That's on Mitchell...not Howe. The signings prior to this summer have all seemed fairly decent to me.

 

Nowt to do with excuses. They're valid reasons. They just don't fit your narrative.

 

I don't think these are valid reasons at all.

 

Howe seems very rigid and particular over who is signed, and maintains there are only a few players that will improve us. This is slowing our progress. We have also spent more than we should have previously on individual players, given our financial situation. These are the reasons our recruitment has not been up to scratch.

 

If you go back and read up on when we signed the likes of Botman and Bruno, you will see that Steve Nickson had followed both for a while and was quite involved in those decisions. For whatever reason as time has gone on and Howe has settled in further, we are not leaning on Nickson's knowledge of targets outside of the Premier League anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27 by KaKa

[Heron]

1 minute ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

I mean, I haven't. But I don't think Sean Longstaff is good enough to be starting for a side that regularly plays in Europe. Or wants to be. 

 

At £70m for Guehi? Not a chance when the room amongst PSR is so small.

 

And Forest fans said they'd have driven Elanga up here for £50m due to a lack of consistent end product. He's more suited to a counter attacking side regardless imo, which we aren't. Its far more than just "wanting a RW and he is one". We need creativity on that side. And I don't get why we seem to be reluctant to explore markets outside the PL over the last few windows. We haven't had any reliable links outside of Thiaw and that total non starter of Tapsoba late in the window recently.

 

And he's tried solutions such as? Not sure what you mean here. If Tonali doesn't fit into his system, I'm unsure why he spent ~£55m on him. I think that's the point folk make around the recent signings.

 

 

 

Not saying you have mate. But plenty others have. Hindsight is a wonderful thing with Tonali. Plenty of folk have and are still saying he should start every game and also not be subbed - bur why if he doesn't work as intended. Perhaps signing Guehi or having a fit Botman allows our midfield 3 to operate in the way Howe intends?

 

I get that we should be looking further afield for signings, of course we should. But a director of football coming in and saying that the transfer policy isn't fit for purpose surely negates all scouting profiles and intended targets with a complete recision required of what he sees as "fit for purpose" and re-establishing the profile he intends players to fit. That doesn't happen overnight, surely.

 

£70m was too much for Guehi, I think as well, but NUFC were backed into a corner in essence through failings beyond Howes control.

 

I can accept the midfield/tactics not being changed up enough, but for me people are going entirely overboard on Howe now.

[ExiledGeordie]

5 minutes ago, wfmk2 said:

Making Bruno captain isn't proving to be a managerial masterstroke. 

Yeah that hasn’t worked 

[Heron]

6 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Based on his form before his ban ? I’m not sure tbh (his ban may have effected his performances mind).

Yeah that's all we could base it on (and his time at AC Milan) I guess.

[Tonalis Bookie]

9 minutes ago, Heron said:

Do you think with Tonali available we'd have finished higher last season or perhaps got through the CL group?

no he wouldn’t have played him 

[Heron]

6 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

I’ll ask you this, if the club could go back do you think we make those signings again? 

The Tonali signing? Not at that time (in hindsight - knowing what they now came to learn). I think he will become a quality player when utilised correctly/the team clicks and so it will prove to be a good signing. I think him being available last season gains us extra points over the season too. So the club will be happy to have signed him, in time.