Eddie Howe

[The College Dropout]

25 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Because it's all contributing to our current situation.
We keep conceding last minute goals and we know this, so why aren't we working on keeping possession and managing games more effectively? 
We have one of the tallest squads in the league. Why are we only 9th for set piece goals, especially when we've hired a set piece coach? 

Do you have the data on Height in the league? A big reason for not scoring more is a lack of quality service too.

 

The conceding late thing. We just need to defend better. Thats always been Howe’s approach. We did it last season and the season we finished 4th.  I do think if we remove Joe and bring in Wissa we should be able to be better in Possession. We have never been built under Howe to be a possession side. I accepted that some time ago. We aren’t going to possession our way into regular top 5 anyway.  We need to maintain our physical edge  and mental age while raiding the technical ability of the squad.  We failed to do that in the summer and it’s going to cost us a big European position imo.  
 

I don’t think there’s a manager in the world that gets this squad top 5 by the end of the season with the expected CL games and cup runs. So when people are quibbling over possession or set pieces I don’t hear it. 

[dcmk]

9 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

The performance over the last 12 months haven't been stellar for the most part, weve seemingly abandoned what made us good and the alternative isn't pretty. The manager has a lot of control over transfers and this last Window has been quite poor so far. Just a few reasons why some folk might feel that way. 

 

Personally I'm not sure. Willing to give him more time and hope he can turn it around. But again I don't take umbrage with those who continue to see nothing wrong or those questions things. 

 

We know he wanted Ekitike, Mbeumo, João Pedro, Cunha and Liam Delap in the last window.  It's fair to say he didn't get his first picks, not sure why he gets so much blame when targets are unavailable or go elsewhere.

 

The Isak to Woltemade shift in play are the reason why we no longer play coherently on the pitch for full 90 minutes.  We haven't figured out how we transition with Nick just yet.

[The College Dropout]

6 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

All pretty reasonable. However, when everything that led to that success for us no longer seems to exist (the drop-off being quite alarming in some cases), there is either serious cause for concern or we have faith, patience and accept that we're trying to transition to something completely different (which is entirely possible). We don't know which it is.
Hope says its the latter. If it is, and he does it successfully and has us kicking on again with a new identity, he will absolutely cement himself as one of the best managers around. 

However, inevitably there will always be fear that it's the former.

The focus should be on all those other things proving to be effective then. Not Eddie Howe.  

[Holmesy]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Do you have the data on Height in the league? A big reason for not scoring more is a lack of quality service too.

 

The conceding late thing. We just need to defend better. Thats always been Howe’s approach. We did it last season and the season we finished 4th.  I do think if we remove Joe and bring in Wissa we should be able to be better in Possession. We have never been built under Howe to be a possession side. I accepted that some time ago. We aren’t going to possession our way into regular top 5 anyway.  We need to maintain our physical edge  and mental age while raiding the technical ability of the squad.  We failed to do that in the summer and it’s going to cost us a big European position imo.  
 

I don’t think there’s a manager in the world that gets this squad top 5 by the end of the season with the expected CL games and cup runs. So when people are quibbling over possession or set pieces I don’t hear it. 

Fair enough, each to their own. I just think we should be maximising our ability to pick up points in every way possible. If that's coaching the shit out the players so they can kick the ball into the box more effectively, do it. If it's coaching them on how to keep possession better in the last 15 minutes of a game, do it. If it's coaching them on how to attack the ball more aggressively at set pieces, do it. Winning is the name of the game. Seeing weakness and not addressing them because we play a certain way is a failure of management in my book, but everyone sees things differently.

[Holmesy]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

The focus should be on all those other things proving to be effective then. Not Eddie Howe.  

I'm not sure I follow? Not being a dick, just don't get what that bit is referring to

[Interpolic]

1 hour ago, r0cafella said:

Spoiled by what? Our one league cup win?

 

Er yes? And the high finishes. 

 

We have literally never had it this good. 

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

 

Er yes? And the high finishes. 

 

We have literally never had it this good. 

In our generation no we haven't. We've slightly over achieved. (We've spent a lot this seems to be forgotten) And no I don't think what we've achieved makes us spoilt. Some might be but personally speaking my expectations for this season is some form European qualification does that make me spoiled and or entitled? Finishing outside of that would be shooting over par imo. Doesn't mean id immediately sack the manager but id want to know more about what's transpired. 

[The College Dropout]

12 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Fair enough, each to their own. I just think we should be maximising our ability to pick up points in every way possible. If that's coaching the shit out the players so they can kick the ball into the box more effectively, do it. If it's coaching them on how to keep possession better in the last 15 minutes of a game, do it. If it's coaching them on how to attack the ball more aggressively at set pieces, do it. Winning is the name of the game. Seeing weakness and not addressing them because we play a certain way is a failure of management in my book, but everyone sees things differently.

But like.... where do you expect us to be in the league?

 

We are talking 2-4 points we should be better off right?

12 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

I'm not sure I follow? Not being a dick, just don't get what that bit is referring to

I view everything that led to our success as being Staveley, Mehrdad & Ashworth leaving and only Howe/coaching being the key element still here. I guess you meant pressing and such.

[Interpolic]

5 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

In our generation no we haven't. We've slightly over achieved. (We've spent a lot this seems to be forgotten) And no I don't think what we've achieved makes us spoilt. Some might be but personally speaking my expectations for this season is some form European qualification does that make me spoiled and or entitled? Finishing outside of that would be shooting over par imo. Doesn't mean id immediately sack the manager but id want to know more about what's transpired. 

 

It comes back to credit in the bank for me, and Howe has mountains of it.  He has overcome every challenge and then some so far, and he represents the club magnificently.

 

We are top-8 revenue and started from an awful foundation.  The amount of adversity he had to battle through last summer meant we were always likely to experience growing pains this season.  One season falling short of that top-8 par would not say to me we need to make a change. 

 

The amount of utter shite we've seen at NUFC over many years, I'd be furious if we dropped him when we're clearly on to a good thing.  Not least cos I am almost certain we'd go downhill and he'd do brilliantly elsewhere.

[Holmesy]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

But like.... where do you expect us to be in the league?

 

We are talking 2-4 points we should be better off right?

I view everything that led to our success as being Staveley, Mehrdad & Ashworth leaving and only Howe/coaching being the key element still here. I guess you meant pressing and such.

Honestly not sure where we should be in the league but definitely higher than we are.

And yeah, I wasn't referring to the people behind the scenes (who I believe were instrumental in us attracting players btw). I was talking about our playing identity - high intensity, bullying teams, shit-housing, overlapping wing play etc. All of it really. We no longer have any identity, let alone our old one that was so effective.

[Andy]

29 minutes ago, lovejoy said:

 

It isn't half a season for Ramsey though tbf, he's played the equivalent of about 4 or 5 games.

 

As I keep saying, i totally get the Elanga takes, but we've barely seen Ramsey and what we have seen of him is coming off the back of a pretty nasty injury.

 

Yeah but he's been at the club for half a season. The reason he hasn't featured more is the same reason he struggled at Villa for the last two seasons, so while it's a mitigating factor, it's also a valid criticism of our recruitment that we've signed a player who has struggled with form due to fitness and injuries, and then he's let us down by being unavailable due to fitness and injuries.

 

It's also known what kind of player he is, he isn't an unknown quantity, so it's valid to say "I don't think he's what we needed". 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I don't think you can let anyone down by being injured like, you're not doing it on purpose. 

[r0cafella]

18 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

 

It comes back to credit in the bank for me, and Howe has mountains of it.  He has overcome every challenge and then some so far, and he represents the club magnificently.

 

We are top-8 revenue and started from an awful foundation.  The amount of adversity he had to battle through last summer meant we were always likely to experience growing pains this season.  One season falling short of that top-8 par would not say to me we need to make a change. 

 

The amount of utter shite we've seen at NUFC over many years, I'd be furious if we dropped him when we're clearly on to a good thing.  Not least cos I am almost certain we'd go downhill and he'd do brilliantly elsewhere.

Good post, he does indeed have credit in the bank which is why most including myself are willing to give more time. Obviously the manner of loss to the mackems caused some headless, given the state of the performance I wouldn't expect nothing less. 

 

I must say however that the utter dross we witnessed for many a year came under an ownership who was engaged in active self harm, now we aren't where we need to be but personally speaking I can't compare what's happening now to what happened during that reign. 

 

If we dropped Eddie right now, I'd be unhappy however if the away form continues, the performances continue to be tepid and we finished the season in the bottom half I'd be reassessing my position. 

[PauloGeordio]

2 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Good post, he does indeed have credit in the bank which is why most including myself are willing to give more time. Obviously the manner of loss to the mackems caused some headless, given the state of the performance I wouldn't expect nothing less. 

 

I must say however that the utter dross we witnessed for many a year came under an ownership who was engaged in active self harm, now we aren't where we need to be but personally speaking I can't compare what's happening now to what happened during that reign. 

 

If we dropped Eddie right now, I'd be unhappy however if the away form continues, the performances continue to be tepid and we finished the season in the bottom half I'd be reassessing my position. 

He has earned as a minimum at least this season. Let’s see where we end up. Still lots of possible positive outcomes to look forward to. Hoping he turns it round like we know he can. Transitional season remember. A convincing win tonight wouldn’t go amiss. HTL 

[Andy]

27 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I don't think you can let anyone down by being injured like, you're not doing it on purpose. 

 

If you sign a player with a track record for struggling with injuries, and he gets injured, the signing is up for scrutiny. The squad has been let down by him being unavailable and it has impacted our results, whether it's on purpose or not is completely irrelevant to the debate. 

[The College Dropout]

He also has been ‘available’ a lot and hasn’t played much or played well.  If it’s injury related that goes back to previous fears many had. 

[Yorkie]

14 minutes ago, Andy said:

 

If you sign a player with a track record for struggling with injuries, and he gets injured, the signing is up for scrutiny. The squad has been let down by him being unavailable and it has impacted our results, whether it's on purpose or not is completely irrelevant to the debate. 

 

But his injury had absolutely nothing to do with his previous injuries.

[r0cafella]

Just now, Yorkie said:

 

But his injury had absolutely nothing to do with his previous injuries.

Players we view as injury prone are often injured by a variety of injuries, look at Botman or Willock. 

 

For me the core issue is we've paid 40m and the contribution is precisely zero, it's just not good but I'm not appropriating blame. 

[Benwell Lad]

If not quite the perfect storm of negative occurrences so far this season it's not that far off.

The pre-season transfer saga being played out so publicly, the proven striker replacement being injured immediately, the long awaited Almiron and Longstaff upgrades not actually being that (yet?), both fullbacks being injured and their replacements too, two of five CB's remaining, Joelinton and Tonali's (hopefully temporary) demise, a schedule too demanding for a club not quite ready for it yet, and all culminating in the most depressing and demoralising of performances on Sunday, losing to a goal beyond freakish.

Apart from Sunday it's hard to see where EH could be considered culpable ?

He remains the man for the job and we remain fortunate to have him, but right now is the biggest challenge he's faced in the four years here.

[lovejoy]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

 

Yeah but he's been at the club for half a season. The reason he hasn't featured more is the same reason he struggled at Villa for the last two seasons, so while it's a mitigating factor, it's also a valid criticism of our recruitment that we've signed a player who has struggled with form due to fitness and injuries, and then he's let us down by being unavailable due to fitness and injuries.

 

It's also known what kind of player he is, he isn't an unknown quantity, so it's valid to say "I don't think he's what we needed". 

 

Yeah, but his injury was from impact, it could happen to anyone, he's been desperately unlucky really.

 

I do take the point, but i'll reserve judgement on Ramsey until we've seen a lot more of him. I think he can be great for us, but let's see.

 

 

[Holmesy]

7 minutes ago, Benwell Lad said:

If not quite the perfect storm of negative occurrences so far this season it's not that far off.

The pre-season transfer saga being played out so publicly, the proven striker replacement being injured immediately, the long awaited Almiron and Longstaff upgrades not actually being that (yet?), both fullbacks being injured and their replacements too, two of five CB's remaining, Joelinton and Tonali's (hopefully temporary) demise, a schedule too demanding for a club not quite ready for it yet, and all culminating in the most depressing and demoralising of performances on Sunday, losing to a goal beyond freakish.

Apart from Sunday it's hard to see where EH could be considered culpable ?

He remains the man for the job and we remain fortunate to have him, but right now is the biggest challenge he's faced in the four years here.

The one bit I would says lays at his feet is his style of coaching/managing/playing/squad management not being suited to competing on two fronts, as has been proven twice now. Hopefully that's something he's addressing during this "transition" but it's going to take quite a big shift. 

[Robster]

35 minutes ago, Andy said:

 

If you sign a player with a track record for struggling with injuries, and he gets injured, the signing is up for scrutiny. The squad has been let down by him being unavailable and it has impacted our results, whether it's on purpose or not is completely irrelevant to the debate. 

Didn't he have a very record of not being out for long due to injury ?

[The College Dropout]

10 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

The one bit I would says lays at his feet is his style of coaching/managing/playing/squad management not being suited to competing on two fronts, as has been proven twice now. Hopefully that's something he's addressing during this "transition" but it's going to take quite a big shift. 

Think this is more squad quality than style of coaching imo.  
 

If Tonali doesn’t get suspended we get European football the first year despite the injury crisis. 

[Benwell Lad]

1 minute ago, Holmesy said:

The one bit I would says lays at his feet is his style of coaching/managing/playing/squad management not being suited to competing on two fronts, as has been proven twice now. Hopefully that's something he's addressing during this "transition" but it's going to take quite a big shift. 

 

I agree.

He's obviously a great coach and man manager, but he has been used to time between games on the training ground and he's definitely a first choice XI manager.

Like anyone he will have to evolve, and in fairness he is showing signs of it, but its like one step forward two steps back for him at the moment, mainly due to circumstances outside of his control.

[Andy]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

 

But his injury had absolutely nothing to do with his previous injuries.

 

He still has a track record for picking them up, some players are just like that. 

 

This all an aside to the wider point I was making anyway (since Ian responded to the least relevant part of my post), which is that he has never been the style of player that I felt we needed, and that we shouldn't be signing players with a reliance on them being "Howe'd". His performances so far when he's been available have reinforced that.