Eddie Howe

[AyeDubbleYoo]

2 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

FWIW I want him to turn it around. Win tonight and the mood flips. C’est la vie in football. I just don’t see how a bottom 6 finish can be excused; we haven’t had an injury crisis like 2023-24 or Spurs last season (Postecoglu won a trophy too and the league campaign still cost him his job) Too many of the signings haven’t shown enough value for money and other than Miley not one player has improved. And it’ll feel like we’re in a cycle; no Europe and we’re class. Back in Europe and its laborious/shite footy until we don’t have to contend with the ‘perils of Europe’ as Howe put it recently. That can’t continue.

 

 

 

But even then you’re basically saying one bad season equals the sack. It’s not really as reasonable as you make it sound. 

[HaydnNUFC]

1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

But even then you’re basically saying one bad season equals the sack. It’s not really as reasonable as you make it sound. 

Clubs have bad seasons, it happens. But that’d be one really bad season. It’s quite possible he could equal a consecutive home league defeat record and finish 15th-17th after spending a canny wedge in the summer.

 

It’s possible he doesn’t either. I want him to turn it around hence the ifs.

[Interpolic]

I'd be shocked if we finished bottom 6 like, we have a decent run-in after this mad run of fixtures.

[alexf]

Just now, HaydnNUFC said:

FWIW I want him to turn it around. Win tonight and the mood flips. C’est la vie in football. I just don’t see how a bottom 6 finish can be excused; we haven’t had an injury crisis like 2023-24 or Spurs last season. Too many of the signings haven’t shown enough value for money. And it’ll feel like we’re in a cycle; no Europe and we’re class. Back in Europe and its laborious/shite footy until we don’t have to contend with the ‘perils of Europe’ as Howe put it recently. That can’t continue.

Can't see it tonight unfortunately. Fear the bad home run continues.

 

The injuries haven't been as obvious or numerous but I think they still play and impact in subtle ways. For example Miley and Tino being out means we've had to play a 35 year old every few days now for the past god knows how many games. I've lost count of how many goals we have conceded down that side. 

 

Also means players are usually knackered. Thiaw, Hall, Tonali etc have all played way too many games when they look fatigued and that means we aren't getting the best performances from them. 

 

But agreed. We are in a pattern of in Europe = shite in the league, out of Europe = decent in the league. 

 

Recruitment was a big problem in the summer but I don't know how much control Eddie has over it so I'm not confident to blame him for it. But it has knocked us back. Anyone who doesn't think Isak was carrying us with some of his goals last year would be in denial and truth is the rest of the squad isn't that great. 

 

Everytime we finally sell a player they are usually shite when the move on...Almiron, Saint-Maximin, Long staff, Ritchie, Shelvey, Lascelles etc. 

 

That tells me that our squad is largely average and ultimately we have been massively overachieving with the squad we had during Eddie's time and this is the first time that we have dropped below par as we don't have a world class striker propping us up. 

 

[Spartan]

10 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

FWIW I want him to turn it around. Win tonight and the mood flips. C’est la vie in football. I just don’t see how a bottom 6 finish can be excused; we haven’t had an injury crisis like 2023-24 or Spurs last season. Too many of the signings haven’t shown enough value for money. And it’ll feel like we’re in a cycle; no Europe and we’re class. Back in Europe and its laborious/shite footy until we don’t have to contend with the ‘perils of Europe’ as Howe put it recently. That can’t continue.

Every fan should want him to turn it round, as it means that this benefits THE most important aspect concerned, of the team we support. Again he will judged by the owners at the end of the season and rightly so, as they will have then had a full season of results and any consequences to make that decision. 

 

 

Edited March 4 by Spartan

[HaydnNUFC]

2 minutes ago, alexf said:

Can't see it tonight unfortunately. Fear the bad home run continues.

 

The injuries haven't been as obvious or numerous but I think they still play and impact in subtle ways. For example Miley and Tino being out means we've had to play a 35 year old every few days now for the past god knows how many games. I've lost count of how many goals we have conceded down that side. 

 

Also means players are usually knackered. Thiaw, Hall, Tonali etc have all played way too many games when they look fatigued and that means we aren't getting the best performances from them. 

 

But agreed. We are in a pattern of in Europe = shite in the league, out of Europe = decent in the league. 

 

Recruitment was a big problem in the summer but I don't know how much control Eddie has over it so I'm not confident to blame him for it. But it has knocked us back. Anyone who doesn't think Isak was carrying us with some of his goals last year would be in denial and truth is the rest of the squad isn't that great. 

 

Everytime we finally sell a player they are usually shite when the move on...Almiron, Saint-Maximin, Long staff, Ritchie, Shelvey, Lascelles etc. 

 

That tells me that our squad is largely average and ultimately we have been massively overachieving with the squad we had during Eddie's time and this is the first time that we have dropped below par as we don't have a world class striker propping us up. 

 

I think Trippier should’ve be been moved on by now; which I think is a negative on Howe’s part. I’ve posted a few times before about how poor we’ve been at selling and holding onto players for too long. You’ve touched on that yourself, there. 
 

We may well have been overachieving but we are vastly underachieving this season and unfortunately it provokes these kind of questions/debates (within reason of course).

[AyeDubbleYoo]

6 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

Clubs have bad seasons, it happens. But that’d be one really bad season. It’s quite possible he could equal a consecutive home league defeat record and finish 15th-17th after spending a canny wedge in the summer.

 

It’s possible he doesn’t either. I want him to turn it around hence the ifs.

I mean, if that league finish happens it would be really bad, but still just one season. 

[alexf]

3 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

I think Trippier should’ve be been moved on by now; which I think is a negative on Howe’s part. I’ve posted a few times before about how poor we’ve been at selling and holding onto players for too long. You’ve touched on that yourself, there. 
 

We may well have been overachieving but we are vastly underachieving this season and unfortunately it provokes these kind of questions/debates (within reason of course).

100%. Knowing when and who to cash in on has been a problem for this ownership and I believe has contributed to slowing down of momentum. The first initial splurge was great but then it should have been followed up by selling older players whilst stock was high. 

Likes of Almiron and Wilson arguably even Joelinton and Trippier could have been shifted for decent money off the back of that first CL qualifying season.

 

Sure we would have had some outraged fans potentially but that's when you need to recruit well and improve on the ones you sell. 

 

That's where they went wrong this summer. They didn't get the targets they wanted, so then anything gained from selling crown jewel has essentially been squanded at this point unless the likes of Elanga, Wissa and to an extent Woltemade suddenly dramatically improved their levels.

 

Again just helps explain some of the reason we have gone backwards. 

Which is why I think it's crazy to just blame Eddie for this and think anyone else could do better. We need to allow him this season and support him to turn it around rather than stick the knife in.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I do sympathise with the criticism of our selling to some extent, I just think you have to remember that we had to rebuild the squad from a really low bar. 

And the fact that we didn’t (don’t?) have a fully functioning and trusted recruitment side. 

 

I find it understandable that you sometimes decide to keep a player you know and trust rather than create a need for another signing. 

[jack j]

26 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

Clubs have bad seasons, it happens. But that’d be one really bad season. It’s quite possible he could equal a consecutive home league defeat record and finish 15th-17th after spending a canny wedge in the summer.

 

It’s possible he doesn’t either. I want him to turn it around hence the ifs.

Even if we finish bottom 6 

I'd say a league cup semi final a champions league last 16 and fa cup last 16 isn't exactly a disaster of a season

 

Add in the fantastic previous years. I'd say it's fucking ridiculous wanting rid of him at all no matter what happens the rest of the season 

[The College Dropout]

46 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

There's a good case to be made they are not so competent so I agree with you there. But I don't think there's much chance of us getting more competent owners who will invest as much money into trying to make us into a top club. More chance of an Ashley type of buyer coming in and using the club's assets to refinance. 

The success of the club is limited to how competent the owners are. It doesn’t really matter who the manager is in the long run.  
 

im a broke record on this topic so I’ll stop 

[Keegans Export]

47 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

But even then you’re basically saying one bad season equals the sack. It’s not really as reasonable as you make it sound. 

Usually, if a manager is deemed to be having a bad season, they don't make it to the end of it.

 

I'm glad we don't look like being that reactionary.

[Yorkie]

Genuinely don't see why it matters where we finish tbh. If it's outside of Europe or the relegation zone, it's basically arbitrary, especially if the points difference between 8th-14th continued to be pretty negligible. Is the squad still invested in the manager? Is the manager's philosophy still implementable? Are the manager and directors still all on the same page/are their boundaries established/can they collaborate effectively? What's the direction of travel after this dip? Can we do well in the cups under this manager?

 

These are what we should be basing any decisions on re the manager's future. Not "we finished 14th instead of 10th so get rid."

[Wolfcastle]

Objectively 14th is well below even the lowest expectations any of us had, piss poor really. No different to drop offs under Dalglish and Souness also disguised by cup runs.

 

There's nobody better but my biggest issue isn't with the manager so much as the manager not getting a summer of rectifying things, we'll be doing well to break-even in talent trading with Tonali and Gordon likely off. I think not being in Europe will benefit us more than any squad changes.

We basically need an 01/02 not just in terms of turn around but in terms of getting lucky with signings (reports at the time suggested Robert and Bellamy were alternates for Zenden and Jeffers who would have been duffers).

Things have to significantly approve and early next season.

[Abacus]

I think Tino will be off at minimum. But I'm actually not that fussed if he goes - availability being a key factor for however superb he is when he's on the pitch. It does mean, though, a couple of new fullbacks, and that's before we get onto anything else.

 

Goalkeeper, striker and then for a reduced fixture list that's a team that can challenge at the top end. Until we get into Europe again and then that's a whole new box of frogs.

[Robster]

34 minutes ago, Wolfcastle said:

Objectively 14th is well below even the lowest expectations any of us had, piss poor really. No different to drop offs under Dalglish and Souness also disguised by cup runs.

 

There's nobody better but my biggest issue isn't with the manager so much as the manager not getting a summer of rectifying things, we'll be doing well to break-even in talent trading with Tonali and Gordon likely off. I think not being in Europe will benefit us more than any squad changes.

We basically need an 01/02 not just in terms of turn around but in terms of getting lucky with signings (reports at the time suggested Robert and Bellamy were alternates for Zenden and Jeffers who would have been duffers).

Things have to significantly approve and early next season.

 

Come on. You cannot mean that surely ?
(Sorry if I am misunderstanding what you mean)
 

[nufc123]

43 minutes ago, Wolfcastle said:

Objectively 14th is well below even the lowest expectations any of us had

Aye its a very bad look. For me 8 compared to 14 is a huge difference.

[The College Dropout]

45 minutes ago, Abacus said:

I think Tino will be off at minimum. But I'm actually not that fussed if he goes - availability being a key factor for however superb he is when he's on the pitch. It does mean, though, a couple of new fullbacks, and that's before we get onto anything else.

 

Goalkeeper, striker and then for a reduced fixture list that's a team that can challenge at the top end. Until we get into Europe again and then that's a whole new box of frogs.

Just the 99 appearances in less than 3 seasons.

[Yorkie]

But what difference does it actually make, compared to all the other ways you might measure the suitability of a manager?

 

@HaydnNUFC referenced Ange earlier; that's the perfect demonstration of it not being about the binary results. Ange won the Europa League but got peddled cos he was an absolutely dogshit manager and needed removing if they had any hope at all of progressing. 

 

Where we finish this season will be a fair and true reflection of how we have performed in the league this season. But it isn't necessarily an indicator of where we'll finish next season.

 

That's the difference between Howe and Dalglish/Souness. Their finishes clearly were a demonstration of what was to come if they had stayed. In Howe's case, he has a mountain of evidence to suggest it's a blip rather than an indicator of the direction of travel.

[Abacus]

8 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Just the 99 appearances in less than 3 seasons.

Fair point.

[HaydnNUFC]

5 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

But what difference does it actually make, compared to all the other ways you might measure the suitability of a manager?

 

@HaydnNUFC referenced Ange earlier; that's the perfect demonstration of it not being about the binary results. Ange won the Europa League but got peddled cos he was an absolutely dogshit manager and needed removing if they had any hope at all of progressing. 

 

Where we finish this season will be a fair and true reflection of how we have performed in the league this season. But it isn't necessarily an indicator of where we'll finish next season.

 

That's the difference between Howe and Dalglish/Souness. Their finishes clearly were a demonstration of what was to come if they had stayed. In Howe's case, he has a mountain of evidence to suggest it's a blip rather than an indicator of the direction of travel.

I find that harsh regarding Ange. They finished 5th the year prior with a much better air about the club after the toxicity and coldness of Conte and ended a trophy drought (a small thirst compared to ours obviously but all relative) the season after which also qualified them for the CL. Those same questions you posted an hour ago could easily have applied to Ange at Spurs at the end of last season, who suffered a just as bad if not worse injury crisis than the one we did in 2023-24. And I don’t think the answers to those questions are all ‘yes’ regarding Howe either tbh.

 

 

Edited March 4 by HaydnNUFC

[Mattoon]

Some wild takes in here like, so glad the club isn't fan owned at times.

 

Howe = Dalglish/Souness?? Howay man

[Yorkie]

2 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

I find that harsh regarding Ange. They finished 5th the year prior with a much better air about the club after the toxicity and coldness of Conte and ended a trophy drought (a small thirst compared to ours obviously but all relative) the season after which also qualified them for the CL. Those same questions you posted an hour ago could easily have applied to Ange at Spurs at the end of last season, who suffered a just as bad if not worse injury crisis than the one we did in 2023-24. And I don’t think the answers to those questions are all ‘yes’ regarding Howe either tbh.

 

I'm not saying they are. I'm saying that basing your decision to keep or remove the manager on something as arbitrary as 'did we finish 14th instead of 13th' is senseless. 

 

Also Ange is definitely absolutely shite, howay.  Never cut out for the PL.

[Weezertron]

He had that sincere admission a month or so ago about needing to be better at his job. But any improvement we've had this season has been fleeting. 

 

He's still the man. Atleast he is experimenting now. There was a moment there where he seemed unwilling to twist. 

[HaydnNUFC]

2 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I'm not saying they are. I'm saying that basing your decision to keep or remove the manager on something as arbitrary as 'did we finish 14th instead of 13th' is senseless. 

 

Also Ange is definitely absolutely shite, howay.  Never cut out for the PL.

It isn’t just based on arbitrary league position, it’s that combined with that we are an absolute dream to play against, easy to score against, have been largely dreadful away from home for almost 12 months, been questionable at best in the transfer market in incomings and outgoings and are crap to watch. 
 

5th one season and a trophy in another, yet still sacked for below par league performance. Makes you think etc.* A spell under that lunatic at Forest can’t be read too much into imo.

 

*safety being obtuse asterisk