Eddie Howe

[Yorkie]

5 minutes ago, Alberto2005 said:

Yes and no.

 

It definitely makes it very hard for us to be finishing top 5 every season.

 

But we're 12th, which is no way near good enough so there's no excuses for that.

 

Personally I don't see how the specific position really matters. In the league's hierarchy, we've dropped from CL chasers to mid-table hopefuls. 9th, 12th, 14th - it's all much of a muchness imo. 

 

The point is we've had a ceiling placed upon us and, what do you know, we've hit it. I feel like that's what the history books should read on this season rather than "it was going mint then everyone just shat the bed."

[Milburn]

4 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

"Has the project stalled?"

 

"I think the rules have made it very difficult for that momentum to go with the speed that it initially did. I don't know whether we can beat that system, we have to follow the rules that are set.

 

"The club desperately want to be ambitious but there's a limit to what we can spend and that has a knock-on effect that everything we do and decisions we made previously. To not recruit for that many windows - I don't know a team that wouldn't suffer from that, and we certainly have. Then losing Alex last summer was a considerable blow.

 

"But we can't feel sorry for ourselves and we can't offer excuses; we have to find a way to be successful without all of these things. But I think there has to be an understanding of the tough conditions that we're working in."

 

 

So do people just not buy this? 

I get the PSR point, but you can’t have it both ways.

 

You can’t talk about “not being able to recruit” and “tough conditions” when the club spent around £250m last summer. That’s not a lack of recruitment, that’s a choice of recruitment. And that’s the real issue. Those signings haven’t improved the team - if anything, they’ve made us weaker or at best stood still.

 

You’ve got over £100m spent on forwards who are either sitting on the bench or being played out of position in midfield. That’s not bad luck, that’s extremly poor squad building.

 

And meanwhile you’ve got clubs like Brentford, Everton, Fulham and Brighton ahead of us, operating with a fraction of the spend.

 

So yes, the rules make things harder, but they don’t explain poor decision-making. Other clubs operate under the same constraints and still manage to strengthen. At some point, you have to look at the execution.

[KaKa]

4 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

"Has the project stalled?"

 

"I think the rules have made it very difficult for that momentum to go with the speed that it initially did. I don't know whether we can beat that system, we have to follow the rules that are set.

 

"The club desperately want to be ambitious but there's a limit to what we can spend and that has a knock-on effect that everything we do and decisions we made previously. To not recruit for that many windows - I don't know a team that wouldn't suffer from that, and we certainly have. Then losing Alex last summer was a considerable blow.

 

"But we can't feel sorry for ourselves and we can't offer excuses; we have to find a way to be successful without all of these things. But I think there has to be an understanding of the tough conditions that we're working in."

 

 

So do people just not buy this? 

 

Need to be a lot more savvy and creative with transfers.

 

The likes of Bruno, Botman and Thiaw should have been the blueprint. Decent age, good level of experience at a respectable level, and lots of further promise at very reasonable value.

 

Should have built up the squad better with these types of signings so the team wouldn't still be so unbalanced.

[JasMann]

Just now, Yorkie said:

 

Personally I don't see how the specific position really matters. In the league's hierarchy, we've dropped from CL chasers to mid-table hopefuls. 9th, 12th, 14th - it's all much of a muchness imo. 

 

The point is we've had a ceiling placed upon us and, what do you know, we've hit it. I feel like that's what the history books should read on this season rather than "it was going mint then everyone just shat the bed."

Can you explain how “CL chasers” (we’ve qualified twice) and mid table hopefuls is “much of a muchness”? It really isn’t at all 

[Miggys First Goal]

Busiest this thread has been post-match?

[Yorkie]

1 minute ago, Milburn said:

You can’t talk about “not being able to recruit” and “tough conditions” when the club spent around £250m last summer. That’s not a lack of recruitment, that’s a choice of recruitment. And that’s the real issue. Those signings haven’t improved the team - if anything, they’ve made us weaker or at best stood still.

 

So you reckon the choice of who we recruited had nothing to do with the conditions he refers to?

[Si67]

29 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

Eh? From Howe? He literally comes straight out and says there's no excuses and all the criticism is due.

Technically we were poor, we didn’t try hard enough, make sure we learn from the mistakes (we clearly don’t learn as this has happened many times this season). Need to defend better than we did. 

[Yorkie]

Just now, JasMann said:

Can you explain how “CL chasers” (we’ve qualified twice) and mid table hopefuls is “much of a muchness”? It really isn’t at all 

 

You've misunderstood - I'm saying the difference between 9th and 14th is much of a muchness. The point is we've fallen in the hierarchy, just as the rules intend.

[TRC]

I think it’s also tough to watch Villa not really skip a beat, CL again for them this year most likely, nearly pipped us last year too. They haven’t really had any world class players like a Bruno, Isak, Tonali, Hall either. Rogers maybe

[JasMann]

Just now, Yorkie said:

 

You've misunderstood - I'm saying the difference between 9th and 14th is much of a muchness. The point is we've fallen in the hierarchy, just as the rules intend.

Ah yeah, I get you. That’s true I suppose, bar optics it’s not much of a difference 

[TK-421]

9 minutes ago, Guillaume said:

If we aren't in the top 5 at Xmas, time for a change.

Which xmas though?

[dcmk]

Just now, TRC said:

I think it’s also tough to watch Villa not really skip a beat, CL again for them this year most likely, nearly pipped us last year too. They haven’t really had any world class players like a Bruno, Isak, Tonali, Hall either. Rogers maybe

It's not all rosey at Villa.

 

Villa fans waited Emery's head at the start of the season.  And again the last few weeks, today's win broke a very poor run of form for them, which includes a 2-0 loss to Wolves, and 4-1 home defeat by Chelsea. But they have been dropping down the table very fast.

[TK-421]

5 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

So you reckon the choice of who we recruited had nothing to do with the conditions he refers to?

We/He pursued Elanga for a long time, then went to £55m for him. Same with Wissa. Those were choices, in fairness. We could have walked away as the prices got stupid, looked at other options, not 'PL proven' of course.

[Milburn]

2 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

So you reckon the choice of who we recruited had nothing to do with the conditions he refers to?

Of course the conditions play a role, but that’s exactly why you need a proper structure and philosophy. That was Paul Mitchell’s whole point when he said the transfer strategy wasn’t fit for purpose.

 

PSR sets the budget, it doesn’t pick the players. The decisions and profiles are still on the club.

 

Player recruitment has to be club-driven, not manager-driven. In a modern setup, that sits with the DoF and recruitment team, not the manager.

 

And in my view, part of the issue is that Howe wants to be hands on and have the final say. A very control-heavy, old-school approach I for one strongly disagre with.

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, TK-421 said:

We/He pursued Elanga for a long time, then went to £55m for him. Same with Wissa. Those were choices, in fairness. We could have walked away as the prices got stupid, looked at other options, not 'PL proven' of course.

 

To be fair, regardless of whether Elanga was a good choice or not, the market for wingers was a bit mad across Europe. Gittens went for circa £55 million, while Monaco wanted big money for Akliouche.

[duo]

If you want to blame anyone - blame Isak and PIF.  He ruined our season and PIF left Eddie without a CEO and DOF when we needed them the most - Eddie was a one man band. 

 

 

Edited March 22 by duo

[JasMann]

Just now, The Prophet said:

 

To be fair, regardless of whether Elanga was a good choice or not, the market for wingers was a bit mad across Europe. Gittens went for circa £55 million, while Monaco wanted big money for Akliouche.

Gittens was a crazy buy. Absolutely insane really. 

[The Prophet]

Howe has spoken numerous times about a collaborative approach to transfer activity. Does be want a lot of control or final say? Most managers have the latter.

[Yorkie]

2 minutes ago, TK-421 said:

We/He pursued Elanga for a long time, then went to £55m for him. Same with Wissa. Those were choices, in fairness. We could have walked away as the prices got stupid, looked at other options, not 'PL proven' of course.

 

There's evidence he wanted Mbeumo ahead of Elanga but granted, there's just as much evidence he was a long-term target, so he's accountable to that money being wasted if indeed he doesn't improve. 

 

Wissa is absolutely nowhere near this club if the rules are fairer imo. Or if he is it's as second fiddle to Isak. Either way there's no way we drop £55m on him; he's either cheaper cos we're less desperate or we look elsewhere.

[SiLvOR]

2 hours ago, TRC said:

Brighton who aren’t special

Except when they play us, so that rules that one out 

[Sir Joel Inton]

Just now, Yorkie said:

Wissa is absolutely nowhere near this club if the rules are fairer imo.

 

Correct. Howe wanted to keep Wilson.

 

What a dreadful decision that would have been too.

[Wolfcastle]

5 hours ago, astraguy said:

Had a kip, Stand by it utter embarrassing  fanbase judging by people on here, If the ownership (who are to blame) fold under pressure i'll enjoy our downfall caused yet again (Keegan, Sir Bobby) by our fans

Keegan left because of the move to being a PLC, Sir Bobby was retiring at the end of the season and after a bad start the board cut that retirement tour short. The fans wanted neither out

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I would've been interested in judging Wissa if he hadn't knackered his knee as soon as he joined. 

[Yorkie]

Just now, Sir Joel Inton said:

 

Correct. Howe wanted to keep Wilson.

 

What a dreadful decision that would have been too.

 

Seems most likely to me that offering Wilson an extension was a contingency plan in the event everything went tits up. Which it did, and with hindsight we'd have been much better off. 

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, Milburn said:

Of course the conditions play a role, but that’s exactly why you need a proper structure and philosophy. That was Paul Mitchell’s whole point when he said the transfer strategy wasn’t fit for purpose.

 

PSR sets the budget, it doesn’t pick the players. The decisions and profiles are still on the club.

 

Player recruitment has to be club-driven, not manager-driven. In a modern setup, that sits with the DoF and recruitment team, not the manager.

 

And in my view, part of the issue is that Howe wants to be hands on and have the final say. A very control-heavy, old-school approach I for one strongly disagre with.

 

Scarily enough Sunderland seem to have a pretty strong recruitment setup that is heavily data driven. Their owners seem to be pretty clued up in that area.

 

They've only just come up and have been able to transform the team with a respectable level of unheralded talent that is going to have them stay up easily and maybe finish above Newcastle. Next season they will be able to approach players as an established Prem club and not one that has just been promoted, and they will likely do even better business.

 

I thought that Geertruida was very good today for them. I remember when he was being spoken about amongst the top clubs a few years back, but he never really got the big move. Somehow Sunderland managed to sign him on loan this past summer. Meanwhile we still have an injury prone right back in Tino and a back up that is 35 and can't run in Trippier.

 

If Newcastle don't get their shit together no one should be surprised if more of what took place today comes about in the future too.