Eddie Howe

[TRon]

6 minutes ago, dcmk said:

It's not naive.  It's just having a realistic approach to it, we are very likely to regret the decision.

 

If you are able to believe that Howe was hindered massively by the summer and let down by the people above him. Then you can admit that this season there has been some huge mitigating factors to explain the poor results.

 

The big mistakes happened last summer when were no DoF in place and losing Isak.

 

 

 

No one will convince me that we ended up buying players Howe didn't want in the one summer he didn't have anybody above him to block him.

 

Maybe we had people above him who weren't very good at getting deals done, but the players must have been green lighted by Howe. We tried to buy Elanga the summer before that, same goes for Thiaw. 

 

No issues with us making the odd mistake in the transfer window, but to put to pretend he had no say in it is just wrong IMO. 

[Heron]

1 minute ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

If you're offering a wager here I bet you he will never manage Liverpool FC. You happy to take this?

I think you're both right.

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

If you're offering a wager here I bet you he will never manage Liverpool FC. You happy to take this?

Seems a bit specific. You think he'll definitely never manage one of Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man United, Spurs?

 

 

Edited April 13 by Kid Icarus

[Menace]

So we give credit to all of the players Howe in the past signed (Isak, Bruno, etc) but not for Wissa/Woltemade, despite him and his nephew being in charge of transfers, have I got that right?

[dcmk]

1 minute ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

If you're offering a wager here I bet you he will never manage Liverpool FC. You happy to take this?

 

This can't be a real post. 

 

Beyond daft if so.

[Heron]

Just now, TRon said:

 

 

No one will convince me that we ended up buying players Howe didn't want in the one summer he didn't have anybody above him to block him.

 

Maybe we had people above him who weren't very good at getting deals done, but the players must have been green lighted by Howe. We tried to buy Elanga the summer before that, same goes for Thiaw. 

 

No issues with us making the odd mistake in the transfer window, but to put to pretend he had no say in it is just wrong IMO. 

Elanga had some of the most assists last season so it's not that stupid to have wanted him.

 

We tried to sign Ekitke, Joao Pedro, Delap and Sesko before Woltemade and Wissa.

 

Thiaw has proven to be a great addition and Ramsay is also looking fairly solid.

 

We sold Isak late in the window after saying we wouldn't sell him.

[TRC]

Just now, Menace said:

So we give credit to all of the players Howe in the past signed (Isak, Bruno, etc) but not for Wissa/Woltemade, despite him and his nephew being in charge of transfers, have I got that right?

It’s always worked that way, same with credit for players. Howe made Isak etc. it’s like saying Pardiola made Cabaye, Debuchy and Colo.

[Holmesy]

Just now, dcmk said:

People were saying Howe wouldn't be considered for a vacant Liverpool post. 

 

But that argument fell down short considering they appointed Slot. 

It didn't really. He had a league title to his name and plays a style of football that Liverpool prefer so the transition from Klopp to Slot wasn't huge, and i'm sure that factored in their thinking. It's one of those discussions that ends up in he will/he won't so we moved on. It didn't fall down.

We can carry it on if you want?

[Yorkie]

Just now, Menace said:

So we give credit to all of the players Howe in the past signed (Isak, Bruno, etc) but not for Wissa/Woltemade, despite him and his nephew being in charge of transfers, have I got that right?

 

Assume this isn't a response to my posts but I'll reply anyway. My argument would be that those two are the first really big examples of us being cornered into making a signing that we didn't really want to; and there should at least be some recognition of the context, rather than just an outright black mark. It doesn't absolve all blame, but you cut him and that heinous CUNT Andy Howe some slack.

[Robster]

2 minutes ago, Menace said:

So we give credit to all of the players Howe in the past signed (Isak, Bruno, etc) but not for Wissa/Woltemade, despite him and his nephew being in charge of transfers, have I got that right?

The difference is that some seemingly want to use the fact that a couple havent worked out yet, as a reason to want him replaced.

[dcmk]

2 minutes ago, Menace said:

So we give credit to all of the players Howe in the past signed (Isak, Bruno, etc) but not for Wissa/Woltemade, despite him and his nephew being in charge of transfers, have I got that right?

It's usually the opposite.  He gets slammed for the one or two that hasn't worked.

 

But no credit for the ones that do.

 

Not to mention that Wissa was proven goal scorer. And we tried to sign everyone else available before Woltemade.

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, Menace said:

So we give credit to all of the players Howe in the past signed (Isak, Bruno, etc) but not for Wissa/Woltemade, despite him and his nephew being in charge of transfers, have I got that right?

He gets credit/criticism for the players that are well reported for being his picks. There's a huge elephant in the room re last summer as well, as in he was less "in charge of transfers" and more "without a DoF and CEO to get deals done"

[HaydnNUFC]

8 minutes ago, Heron said:

If he had have finished wherever we finish this season first (full) season in charge folk wouldn't have batted an eye lid by comparison.

 

I'm unsure about that, mind. We finished 11th in 2021-22 despite having 1 win in the first 21 games. If we finished below 11th, which is where I think we'll finish this season, in 2022-23 despite spending on Botman, Isak, Gordon in January et al I think people would've batted an eyelid, like.

[Menace]

1 minute ago, dcmk said:

It's usually the opposite.  He gets slammed for the one or two that hasn't worked.

 

But no credit for the ones that do.

 

Not to mention that Wissa was proven goal scorer. And we tried to sign everyone else available before Woltemade.

 

That's just simply not true though, is it?

[TRC]

11 minutes ago, Heron said:

Next season. But over 4 seasons...

 

If he had have finished wherever we finish this season first (full) season in charge folk wouldn't have batted an eye lid by comparison. He's a victim of his own success. If you line up our seasons in a different order we'd have had staying up, wherever we finish this year, CL qualification and a cup final and CL qualification and a cup win.

 

I get that's not how it's happened but there's been many mitigating factors.

 

The more I see the criticisms of Howe the more inclined I am to back him to be honest, folk may consider that naive or stupid but I think it's seeing the full picture for what it is.

 

Howe need infrastructure around him that stays and players that don't think they're bigger than the club. Then we'll be sound again imo. Training time over the summer and a good summer of transfer business will see us right as rain next season in my opinion.

 

The transfer shit does my head in. We've signed many players who've all been successes and they're all forgotten about. Folk will then say they weren't Howe, but then say he isn't willing to work with a DoF. Its all becoming an absolute nonsense on that front.

 

Folk say he cannot coach and he's literally made every one of those players better players prior to this season when he's had time on the training ground with them. With the exclusion of Trippier who was already outstanding and came for Eddie Howe.

 

Where people are right, is that his formation isn't working and it's because the same intensity isn't being applied. He hasn't perhaps made subs at the right times. There are flaws, of course there are. But sick of reading the contradictory shite that's now being made in an attempt to strengthen an argument.

 

A lot of the arguments are entirely flawed.

 

Of all the people at the club Howe deserves the most backing for me. Not your players or senior leadership team who will seemingly fuck off at the drop of a hat.

 

Nowt personal fella - just a rant in general (not at you).

 

 

 

You can apply that same logic to Slot tbf.

 

How many managers have turned around sinking ship? Just curious if there are any recent examples of turning it around after 4 years into a job.

[Jesse Pinkman]

3 minutes ago, dcmk said:

It's usually the opposite.  He gets slammed for the one or two that hasn't worked.

 

But no credit for the ones that do.

 

Not to mention that Wissa was proven goal scorer. And we tried to sign everyone else available before Woltemade.

Honest question, let’s say if he stays in the summer and we miss Europe next year would you want to move on or keep him? 

[Heron]

3 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

I'm unsure about that, mind. We finished 11th in 2021-22 despite having 1 win in the first 21 games. If we finished below 11th, which is where I think we'll finish this season, in 2022-23 despite spending on Botman, Isak, Gordon in January et al I think people would've batted an eyelid, like.

Fair - Batted an eyelid may be a stretch but the criticism wouldn't be anywhere near these levels.

 

 

Edited April 13 by Heron

[Heron]

1 minute ago, Menace said:

 

That's just simply not true though, is it?

I'm not sure I've ever really seen anyone attribute the good signings made to Howe to be fair.

[bobbydazzla]

19 minutes ago, dcmk said:

It's not naive.  It's just having a realistic approach to it, we are very likely to regret the decision.

 

If you are able to believe that Howe was hindered massively by the summer and let down by the people above him. Then you can admit that this season there has been some huge mitigating factors to explain the poor results.

 

The big mistakes happened last summer when were no DoF in place and losing Isak.

 

So you don’t even get a tiny twinge of excitement if you allow yourself to imagine a future where we bring in a new manager who turns out to be amazing ?

 

For ease of reference, let’s imagine what happens next means that Eddie was our Mancini and Mr New Manager becomes our Pep. 

 

If we replace Eddie you can see no other future other than abject failure ?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13 by bobbydazzla

[The Prophet]

The "all parties will make a decision at the end of the season" line is doing nothing to calm my relatively  baseless thoughts that he might walk.

 

If that is how it is end, it'd be cool if it was announced before the final home game so he gets the send-off he deserves.

 

 

Edited April 13 by The Prophet

[dcmk]

1 minute ago, Holmesy said:

It didn't really. He had a league title to his name and plays a style of football that Liverpool prefer so the transition from Klopp to Slot wasn't huge, and i'm sure that factored in their thinking. It's one of those discussions that ends up in he will/he won't so we moved on. It didn't fall down.

We can carry it on if you want?

No one prefers his style of football.  

 

He's constantly whinging about scheduling, a lack of squad depth and teams doing low-block defenses.

 

Liverpool fans think he's a fraud.  And if you think Howes signings haven't worked look at how he's done with Wirtz, Kirkez, Frimong and Isak.

 

Signed all of them yet 28 points off the top despite winning the league last year.  

 

He will be sacked soon enough.

 

 

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, TRC said:

You can apply that same logic to Slot tbf.

 

How many managers have turned around sinking ship? Just curious if there are any recent examples of turning it around after 4 years into a job.

 

12 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

On scale of points rather than position you only need to look at Guardiola and Klopp in their transition seasons.

 

Man City went from 91 points in 1st to 71 points in 3rd (-20 points), Liverpool went from 92 points in 2nd to 69 points in 5th (-23 points)

 

We're looking at a similar fall off, from 66 points to I dunno, ~50 odd points.

 

These are clubs with more or less unlimited resources with managers who are seen as the best around.

 

Man City spent £500m in that January just to ensure Champions League, they now look like having a decent chance of winning the league.

 

Liverpool spent £145m in the summer after they finished 5th and bounced back to 82 points in 3rd, setting them up to 84 points in 1st the following season under Slot.

 

 

 

 

[Heron]

2 minutes ago, TRC said:

You can apply that same logic to Slot tbf.

 

How many managers have turned around sinking ship? Just curious if there are any recent examples of turning it around after 4 years into a job.

Probably not, if any, in recent times. But arguably the greatest manager of all time turned round a sinking ship at Man United.

 

 

Edited April 13 by Heron

[Wallsendmag]

5 minutes ago, dcmk said:

 

This can't be a real post. 

 

Beyond daft if so.

 

You said your money would be on him being Liverpool manager. I think that opinion is beyond daft. They can pretty much have their pick of managers, they aren't going for Eddie Howe man 

[dcmk]

2 minutes ago, Menace said:

 

That's just simply not true though, is it?

No, it is.

 

We only hear about the ones which doesn't work, to form the narrative that Howe cant be allowed to have 'his players' anymore.