Eddie Howe

[Wallsendmag]

11 hours ago, Drewboy74 said:

He'd fucking walk if he'd read the shite on here! 

 

Hopefully someone directs him over here then.

[Kid Icarus]

16 minutes ago, Antipode23 said:

 

You have to compare managers in context though right? Did the other managers have the same (relative) freedom to spend as Eddie, for example? I'm sure there are other contextual differences that make comparisons hard to do.

 

I also think Eddie's drop off this season shouldn't be minimised or deflected from. Imo it has been largely self-inflicted and is a warning sign of things to come - not a mere blip as some are suggesting.

 

 

Under Keegan we spent more than pretty much every team in the league at a time when there was no closed shop at the top. Only Man United already had an established squad so them starting the 100m race at the 40m mark wasn't anything like the existing advantages the 'big 6' have now in terms of squad, revenue, spending power. The likes of us, Liverpool, Blackburn, Villa could all compete with Man United.

 

Robson's spend (gross and net and wages) was anything from 4th to 6th, which matched our positions. We also already had very good players so didn't need an overhaul (Given, Speed, Dyer, Solano, Shearer)

 

Meanwhile our spend under Howe is from a similar position to Robson but with a worse squad, no assets to counter our spend, spending that was needed to bridge the gap and still pales in comparison to the top teams, and the 8th highest wage bill. He's also achieved more than SBR, and you could make a case for Keegan, but I'd say Howe has achieved more in context.

[Kid Icarus]

12 minutes ago, Stuy_O said:

 

So not ignoring it then, thanks. 

 

The summer was a collective disaster, no one escapes any blame. 

Blaming Howe for last summer is by definition ignoring the wider context.

[Hudson]

9 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

It's a daily occurrence that Howe is specifically blamed for the summer and by a different poster each time. 

Handled the Isak situation badly, and should have just accepted he was best off sold. Rather than piss farting around trying to make him stay. 
 

As a manger myself, if one of my team decides to take a better offer from another business, Then we will make no attempt to keep them. Their heads are turned and will never perform for you again like they used to.

Yes it’s not totally his fault for the Isak situation, but he could have and should have handled it better. 

[Kid Icarus]

13 minutes ago, Jesse Pinkman said:

Well he has to take some of the blame but there are others who are also at fault as well. Like everything it’s not black and white. 

Some of the blame would be a marked difference from the current situation where he's getting all of it through him being the only person taking the flack. This thread and the PIF thread are night and day, yet PIF are far, far more to blame for the shitshow of last summer. 

[PauloGeordio]

It’s not all on Eddie but a lot of it is! Eddie’s stubbornness, dedication to his formation, favouritism, reactive predictable like for like substitutions, not addressing the gaping hole in midfield, the players bought in the summer and how they have been managed/miss managed all point to the end for me. It’s very sad to see the wheels come off but this has been a slow undoing. He gave us some outstanding games of football and a cup and for that he should be cherished forever. I fear giving him more money to spend on more of the same will do further damage to us long term, and we could be very septic come the Autumn/Christmas. Will be interesting seeing what the owners do. I don’t think Eddie will give up until it’s too late and the decision is taken away from him. I was so looking forward to a switch in formation at least try it, what is there to lose but no, doubling down. I think the Bournemouth poster early doors had it summed up quite well as to what we are getting with Eddie, and the negatives could potentially undo it all. And here we are 😔

We aren’t United atm. This shit time will pass and Newcastle will go on as this is just another chapter and not the end of the story. HTL. 

[Kid Icarus]

10 minutes ago, Hudson said:

Handled the Isak situation badly, and should have just accepted he was best off sold. Rather than piss farting around trying to make him stay. 
 

As a manger myself, if one of my team decides to take a better offer from another business, Then we will make no attempt to keep them. Their heads are turned and will never perform for you again like they used to.

Yes it’s not totally his fault for the Isak situation, but he could have and should have handled it better. 

This is exactly what I mean, everyone has memory-holed the summer. He had nothing to do with keeping Isak or not at all, his role in that was finding a replacement and batting off questions in the press, saying countless times that it was being dealt with at ownership level.

 

 

Edited April 19 by Kid Icarus

[Elma]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

Slept on it and feel much the same this morning.

 

I don't think he's the main reason we are where we are, but him leaving could nevertheless be part of the solution.

 

My tipping point has always been "are the players still playing for him?" Annoyingly it's really difficult to take a clean view on that at the end of the season, where the players might be starting to phone it in regardless. 

 

I think the majority of the players are still behind him. I don't think there's any way those players that he took to fifth and a League Cup win aren't playing for him. I think Thiaw is behind him.

 

The ones who "might" not be bothered whether he moves on or not are the newer signings who can't get into the team and other fringe players who haven't had a run under him. That's human nature.

 

The team still outran Bournemouth yesterday by a couple of km, and you can see the effort is there. The problem is confidence is really at rock bottom.

 

For me, the annoying thing is that for a coach who prides himself on learning and developing, he can't see that his poor and reactive in game management is costing us points, and it looks like he's doing nothing to fix it.

 

I'd be stunned if we don't go three at the back next week now, and maybe that might get us out of this slump. I'd absolutely take a hard fought draw at this point. 

[bobbydazzla]

48 minutes ago, Coffee_Johnny said:

Last 'Stat attack' but worth considering the idea that past performance maybe be a better predictor of future performance than disappointment fuelled predictions of what the future would hold if we stick rather than twist. 

 

 

 

Statistics only tell part of the story.

 

They’re useful to compare and contrast but don’t take into account what we’re seeing with our own eyes and the circumstances the club was in when each manager was in charge. Context is important when looking at numbers. 
 

We’re turgid, stale, easy to score against, shit in front of goal, we stick with the same flawed tactics week after week after week, drop points from winning / drawing positions more than any other side in the league, we’ve got a prevailing attitude of defeatism and concede more late goals than any other NUFC side I’ve ever watched.

 

We have players we’ve spent millions of billions on who are being played out of position or not played at all and too many players in the side are on the decline or at the end of their careers but still starting games because the manager feels he can trust them. 

 

 

 

Edited April 19 by bobbydazzla

[Kid Icarus]

Stats might only tell part of the story, but the stuff you see with your eyes also only tell part of the story and are highly subjective. Yet the only conclusion that's reached is: can only be the manager's fault/we have to blame the manager.

[SUPERTOON]

Still think there are plenty of option in between failing to land your top targets, and ending up with who we did. 

[J7]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

Stats might only tell part of the story, but the stuff you see with your eyes also only tell part of the story and are highly subjective. Yet the only conclusion that's reached is: can only be the manager's fault/we have to blame the manager.

Why do you keep trying to pin that on those you disagree with? I’m not sure anyone is saying it’s all the managers fault and there’s some good arguments taking everything into account.

[Gawalls]

36 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

It's a daily occurrence that Howe is specifically blamed for the summer and by a different poster each time. 

Just like it's a daily occurrence from a different poster that he's not to blame and it's more of a reason to explain this season as he was let down by others. 

 

Don't want to get into again but it's simply a subject that splits people so perhaps that end of season investigation could be good - what happened? Why were so many players turning us down or we couldn't get the deal done? What went wrong with Isak, should he have been sold sooner, did it cause bad feeling with the players as maybe some sided with him? Why have the players stopped playing for the club now? Why are so many new signings being frozen out?

 

I genuinely don't want to discuss them now as I feel it's an absolute waste of time because we all have our own thoughts and that's what they are - thoughts, I want the owners to give a shit, man the fuck up and do something about it. Eddie may not be open to new ideas but I want them to prove they'll learn and evolve.

 

 

Edited April 19 by Gawalls

[bobbydazzla]

7 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Stats might only tell part of the story, but the stuff you see with your eyes also only tell part of the story and are highly subjective. Yet the only conclusion that's reached is: can only be the manager's fault/we have to blame the manager.

Thats exactly why I said stats only tell part of the story. They’re interesting but need to be taken in context with other factors, such as my opinions I’ve expressed about what I see with my own eyes. 
 

Do those stats take into account we broke the world transfer record when Keegan was in charge and we had ambitions to win the league, but Rafa was shopping in the whoopsie aisle at a club that only had one ambition and that was to not get relegated ? 

 

Interested to know who I should blame for the shite we’re being served up on the pitch week after week after week if I’m not blaming the manager ? 

 

 

Edited April 19 by bobbydazzla

[Displayname]

Eddie's overall stats are still great and if he would leave now his time here will without a doubt be considered a huge success. 

But how much weight should we give his past achievements when we are now clearly heading in the wrong direction with little to suggest that Eddie knows how to get us out of the mess?

[astraguy]

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1Kh72FsTFN/

 

 

 

Edited April 19 by astraguy

[Holmesy]

Not sure what's left to say on this situation, it's tragic and entirely self-created. If you're the board watching this, there's only one conclusion you can come to, and one outcome. He's literally doing nothing to change our fortunes. No one is telling him he needs to play one formation and one playing style - that is entirely his decision. It feels like we're watching a man slowly losing the plot.

I don't even give a shit about the wasted money in the transfer window any more. He has a group of players and he needs to build a system to fit them, look where we're conceding goals and do something to address it. In other words, do his fucking job! 

There is absolutely no chance we come out next season doing something different - he has basically said as much. It will be more of the same but with different players, and that is simply not good enough. 

If this situation occurs in any other business, - not addressing the things that are causing poor performance - you're toast, and rightly so. Thanks for the memories, Eddie but it's time to move on.

[Coffee_Johnny]

 Why people don’t like complicated answers to disappointing occurrences: 

“People often dislike complicated answers to disappointments because they are seeking emotional validation, simplicity, and swift resolution rather than a complex justification. Disappointment is fundamentally a feeling of sadness or deflated expectation, and long explanations can feel like an invalidation of that pain, or an attempt to avoid accountability.”

 

 

Edited April 19 by Coffee_Johnny

[Mikky]

For the first 20 mins yesterday we were “ok” - we were getting joy in the middle when our centre backs were threading balls to our CMs - there was a break in play - Iraola plugged a man in to stop those passes - EH and the players had no answer - tells you everything you need to know 

[Kid Icarus]

4 minutes ago, J7 said:

Why do you keep trying to pin that on those you disagree with? I’m not sure anyone is saying it’s all the managers fault and there’s some good arguments taking everything into account.

Because it's the only question that's being put forward is whether we should keep Howe, and that's at best.

 

In other cases it's an assertion that we should.

 

In both cases the amount of times he's blamed for things that are objectively not his fault (nigh on always from the summer) is ridiculous. Someone's just claimed that no one is doing that, then 2 posts later someone was blaming him for us not selling Isak soon enough. It's day after day at this point.

[La Parka]

Can manage a press conference, can't manage a game. 

[TheEntertainer]

20 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

Statistics only tell part of the story.

 

They’re useful to compare and contrast but don’t take into account what we’re seeing with our own eyes and the circumstances the club was in when each manager was in charge. Context is important when looking at numbers. 
 

We’re turgid, stale, easy to score against, shit in front of goal, we stick with the same flawed tactics week after week after week, drop points from winning / drawing positions more than any other side in the league, we’ve got a prevailing attitude of defeatism and concede more late goals than any other NUFC side I’ve ever watched.

 

We have players we’ve spent millions of billions on who are being played out of position or not played at all and too many players in the side are on the decline or at the end of their careers but still starting games because the manager feels he can trust them. 

 

 

 

 

I think the stats are quite disingenuos as well and mask the issue, no-one is suggesting Eddie hasn't been brilliant for the club, most people agree this season has been awful, especially in the league. Lumping this seasons performance in with the seasons when we all agree he was doing well doesn't tell us anything we didn't know. Just like if I used just this season to say we've always been crap under Eddie it's entirely unfair to say this season hasn't been poor because when you lump it in with all his good seasons it's actually not that bad as an average. We all agree Eddie has been great for the club, something has changed this season. 

[RS]

I’ll bet some of the folk wanting Howe out were also saying give Bruce a chance. 

[Dr Venkman]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

Slept on it and feel much the same this morning.

 

I don't think he's the main reason we are where we are, but him leaving could nevertheless be part of the solution.

 

My tipping point has always been "are the players still playing for him?" Annoyingly it's really difficult to take a clean view on that at the end of the season, where the players might be starting to phone it in regardless. 

Crystal Palace game was a huge tell IMO. If there was life left in this team we might have mustered something resembling a performances in that game. In terms of the score, we lost that game late, but were utterly dreadful from start to finish. No urgency, no ability to break them down, and we were playing a team who conceded the initiative before kick off.

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

Slept on it and feel much the same this morning.

 

I don't think he's the main reason we are where we are, but him leaving could nevertheless be part of the solution.

 

My tipping point has always been "are the players still playing for him?" Annoyingly it's really difficult to take a clean view on that at the end of the season, where the players might be starting to phone it in regardless. 

 

I just think if we have to sort a new manager then we should do it sooner rather than later. Surely we're already prepping for next season...

 

Hence my preference for Eddie to be given until Christmas or so at the least.

 

 

Edited April 19 by Dr.Spaceman