Eddie Howe

[Kid Icarus]

2 hours ago, bobbydazzla said:

Paul McCartney is one of the greatest and most popular songwriters the worlds ever known. The man has genius level songwriting talent.
 

When’s the last time he wrote a decent song ? 
 

The man who was at the heart of some of the greatest, most influential and most popular music ever recorded, also wrote and recorded the fucking Frog Chorus. 
 

Past success is not always an indicator of future success. At some point most people with talent experience decline and never get back to their best. That’s just life.

 

For someone who prides themselves on judging things on the cold, hard facts, you sure do love a random and incredibly tenuous analogy like.

 

 

Edited April 19 by Kid Icarus

[mondonewc]

One hugely important factor in all of this is confidence and momentum. Almost every player in these past few games looks devoid of any confidence whilst momentum in any sport is huge, we have zero positive momentum, a ton of negative momentum, and it's telling on the pitch.

 

In the past when we've had blips Eddie's been quick to turn the tide and stop those mini rots, this past few months sadly he hasn't managed to achieve that.

 

Do I think we should sack him for that? No I don't.

 

Do I think he's lost the dressing room? No I don't.

 

This period we are going through now has happened to much better teams then ours, were a bad spell spirals into a bad season. Liverpool's title winning side under Klopp being one of many examples.

 

Howe gets bashed for being too rigged with the system, can anyone give examples of managers who ripped up the system past half way through the season to try and turn results around? I literally cant think of one example, these are top managers in one of the most successful leagues in the world and they arent doing it that I can recall.

 

He also gets bashed for playing the same team, this is just factually not correct, just check the lineups this season. 

 

I'm pro Howe, I want him to stay, that's not to say I don't think he's made mistakes this season, nor does it mean I think he's close to perfect, he's not.

 

One huge gripe I have with those who are Howe out is the disrespect shown from some. I'm not going to make direct examples of it, but there's a lot of it in here and I think its disgraceful. 

 

This is a man of the utmost class, grafts his arse off day in day out for the club, not one person would question his effort to the cause. If you want him out fine, but show him the respect he fucking deserves!!!

 

 

Edited April 19 by mondonewc

[Collage]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

We don’t have technically gifted players though. He does seem to avoid them too. 

I was commenting on the talk of "good football" and my point was, signing technically gifted players doesn't automatically mean that the football will be better and more exciting. Sure, I agree we probably have too many "runners" and would like to mix it up with some technicians, but the style and mentality is something else.

[Kid Icarus]

2 hours ago, J7 said:

Sorry, but that’s complete nonsense. It looks like an excuse just to not engage with valid arguments and to dismiss points raised. 

You can call it complete nonsense all you want, but that's not an argument. I'm not posting about what happened in the summer day after day randomly, it's because day after day the criticisms that are thrown at Howe are for things that are objectively not his fault, blaming him for taking too long to make a decision on Isak being the latest case in point.

[duo]

1 hour ago, Toon No9 said:

So we should sack our manager every time we have 10 poor matches? Then we will become another Spurs imo.

Form has been poor in the league all season in fact since April last season. And rather than turn it around we've got worse.

[duo]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

EDIT: Worth adding that it could’ve been because of the lack of leaders in the XI, as I was only really focusing on the starter drills. When there’s no Trippier, Burn, Schär, Bruno, Joelinton, or dare I say Murphy, then there’s nobody setting a bar and demanding that others don’t just go through the motions.

I noticed the huddle at the start of the game seemed odd- it look they all were all standing loosely in a circle with no one saying anything.  

[Kid Icarus]

2 hours ago, Stuy_O said:

 

Lets break down the wider context then.

- After the cup final win, a clear preference by PIF to side with the managers ideas of transfers, resulting in a total collapse of any already poor working relationship between Howe and Mitchell. We can argue all day whether he was right or wrong, but Howe clearly wanted prem based players when Mitchell was brought in to do the opposite. This is as clear as day, and it's why Mitchell left. Was Mitchell a c**t for exiting without warning? Yes, but if this is a boxing match they're both drawing on points in the 12th round. 

 

You didn't need a crystal ball to predict any of the above either, when both parties were doing interviews about how they saw the direction of the club, it was like the old Newcastle United everyone loved. Eddie spat his dummy out the second Stavely was out the door, so for this I will absolutely attibute some - not all -  blame at the managers door. We also had the biggest warning from the summer before when we embarrassingly hunted down Marc Guehi's signature only to be rejected by Palace every time. Bells were going off immediately that these two couldn't work together, and it posed big questions around our scouting and recruitment policy (against the backdrop of PSR). I believe Howe wants to much say on players. Thats not saying he should just accept any old junk, but I honestly think he would have been rejecting every single player Mitchell brought forward, but thats a personal view. 

 

What he clearly can't be held accountable for is the seemingly cavalier mindset from those above him by allowing him, his nephew, and Nickson, navigate one the most difficult transfer windows we've ever had. Nor is it his fault Isak acted the way he did, and any manager would find it difficult. 

 

A proactive ownership would surely have done something to try and help - but this leads that other discussion about how slow PIF are at just about everything.  Then again, can you just quickly pluck a DOF from thin air, get him signed up to the 'project', all this whilst your CEO (another guilty party) is leaving due to illness, and your prized asset is on strike? 

 

So like I said, no one escapes this one looking good, from manager to players to directors to owners. 

 

On the pitch, Howe I think is freezing under the pressure with his decisions or lack of, but he's not being helped by his players (who he got this far), plenty of whom have chucked it in, aren't good enough, or aren't justifying the huge fee's we paid for them. If you combine the two it's the worst of both worlds. It seems to me like the players can only play consistently well in one scenario, which is a bouncing SJP when the other team fold under the noise, but you have to earn that support.

But this is a team full of experienced internationals, and a now experienced coach, and the facts need to be laid bare. We are 14th in the league, having lost 15 with more doubtless to come. We have been turned over twice by our nearest and dearest. We are now looking over our shoulder, the talk of Europe beforehand simply laughable. Our eyes aren't lying to us, and we have been playing horrendous football for the majority (not all) of this season, even in the games we win. This has nothing to do with a fall out with executives, or PIF's slow approach, or PSR. Even the sale of Isak now has the whiff on an excuse when we are week in week out serving up the dross that we do. This is on the manager and his players, who instead of coming out fighting are doing anything but.

 

TL:DR - everyone needs to shoulder the blame, including Eddie Howe. 

 

 

 

The bit in bold is where we're at an impasse then, because I couldn't possibly disagree with you more on that point. The idea that those things have nothing to do with our on field performance runs counter to all of the evidence you see in football. You can probably count on one hand the amount of clubs that have been successful on the pitch who were in a mess off it, and probably on one finger the ones where the mess has included player recruitment.

 

 

Edited April 19 by Kid Icarus

[TRon]

9 minutes ago, Bishops Finger said:

The players he signed were his 4th and fifth choices though. He wanted Ekitike, then Pedro, then Delap and had to settle for Woltemade and Wisse. And I seem to remember a lot on here saying we should just pay what Brentford want for Wissa when we were trying to get the best deal. He was on good form when we signed him. Got injured and was out for ages and it's Howes fault all of a sudden he come back shit. I wasn't happy with the signing anyway we had to get someone in.

It can't be all of a sudden Howe has become a shit coach. He had us playing well above our norm a couple of seasons ago,  and look what he done for players like Jolinton, remember how shit he was under Bruce. 

I can't understand why the team are all playing absolute shit now, but like I say, Howe hasn't all of a sudden become a shit manager. I think he deserves another season and hopefully we have a better transfer market this time around

 

 

How will he get a better transfer market this time round though? We'll still have the same competition for the top young players he's after. If we sign players who are rated but he doesn't like, he just won't play them like Woltemade. 

 

If he stays, then we are going to need a complete overhaul of the squad, which will mean selling players at a loss that we spaffed on last summer. I wonder if Hopkinson will be happy to go down that route?

 

 

[bobbydazzla]

11 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

For someone who prides themselves on judging things on the cold, hard facts, you sure do love a random and incredibly tenuous analogy like.

 

 

 

Random - yes

Tenuous - no 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

9 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

How will he get a better transfer market this time round though? We'll still have the same competition for the top young players he's after. If we sign players who are rated but he doesn't like, he just won't play them like Woltemade. 

 

If he stays, then we are going to need a complete overhaul of the squad, which will mean selling players at a loss that we spaffed on last summer. I wonder if Hopkinson will be happy to go down that route?

 

 

I don’t know why we assume the worst possible outcome just because last summer didn’t go well. We have a new DOF now as well. 

[TaylorJ_01]

I'd give him the opportunity to present a plan, which I'm sure he has, detailing squad changes, tactical development etc and give him the chance to learn from any errors. 

 

I think my main disappointment has been the last few games, where we have had chance to get on the training ground, and seeing zero difference our improvement.

 

I think players have fucked him over too. Isak, Wissa, Gordon, Tonali (lesser extent) etc, though I don't think that's a unique problem to us.

[TRon]

2 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I don’t know why we assume the worst possible outcome just because last summer didn’t go well. We have a new DOF now as well. 

 

 

I hope the new DOF can find another Isak then. 

[The College Dropout]

28 minutes ago, Collage said:

I was commenting on the talk of "good football" and my point was, signing technically gifted players doesn't automatically mean that the football will be better and more exciting. Sure, I agree we probably have too many "runners" and would like to mix it up with some technicians, but the style and mentality is something else.

But specifically with Howe - it would. We’ve seen it. 

 

16 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

The bit in bold is where we're at an impasse then, because I couldn't possibly disagree with you more on that point. The idea that those things have nothing to do with our on field performance runs counter to all of the evidence you see in football. You can probably count on one hand the amount of clubs that have been successful on the pitch who were in a mess off it, and probably on one finger the ones where the mess has included player recruitment.

 

 

 

I actually think you are both right. 
 

You can’t keep our coaching continual mismanagement at the top. I fully agree.  And this is the biggest reason I want to keep Eddie, coaching I think is the final piece. Everything else needs to be right. 
 

But Eddie’s limitation as a coach and a footballing mind are also being exposed. 
He does need people to push him in different directions. 

 

 

Edited April 19 by The College Dropout

[AyeDubbleYoo]

4 minutes ago, TRon said:

I hope the new DOF can find another Isak then. 

I mean, sure. 

[TheBrownBottle]

43 minutes ago, Holloway said:

Mind you I'm normally about 5 pints deep before the action starts when I do attend, so you won't get the most tactical analysis out of me 😵‍💫

That was my standard way of viewing matches  - leaving Idols / Three Bulls / Rosies (to name but a few) at about ten to three after three or four hours on the peeve - which isn’t conducive to sober analysis!

[KaKa]

[Holloway]

Just now, TheBrownBottle said:

That was my standard way of viewing matches  - leaving Idols / Three Bulls / Rosies (to name but a few) at about ten to three after three or four hours on the peeve - which isn’t conducive to sober analysis!

Aye I normally pop in the Bacchus/ Percy /Hotspur and might take in an Irish haunt to see if there's a bit of live music on ( The Union rooms being the latest I've heard). I'm massively resistant to change at this point (I'm 64) but I still only need 2 pisses at the ground and I'm fucked without my geps 

[TheBrownBottle]

38 minutes ago, Bishops Finger said:

The players he signed were his 4th and fifth choices though. He wanted Ekitike, then Pedro, then Delap and had to settle for Woltemade and Wisse. And I seem to remember a lot on here saying we should just pay what Brentford want for Wissa when we were trying to get the best deal. He was on good form when we signed him. Got injured and was out for ages and it's Howes fault all of a sudden he come back shit. I wasn't happy with the signing anyway we had to get someone in.

It can't be all of a sudden Howe has become a shit coach. He had us playing well above our norm a couple of seasons ago,  and look what he done for players like Jolinton, remember how shit he was under Bruce. 

I can't understand why the team are all playing absolute shit now, but like I say, Howe hasn't all of a sudden become a shit manager. I think he deserves another season and hopefully we have a better transfer market this time around

That applies to Woltemade, but not Wissa.

 

I don’t think Howe is a shit manager - I think he’s at the end of a cycle which happens to pretty much every manager no matter how good.  I think Howe is a first rate coach and a club legend at this point - but I also am of the opinion that the players aren’t playing for him anymore, and his tactics are tired and the results are there for all to see.  We’ve been poor for quite some time now - this isn’t knee-jerk - and if someone asked me what our style of play was I wouldn’t be able to answer it.  

 

I don’t think there is anything unreasonable at all about wanting him to have another go - it’s where I was for months when it became obvious we’d had a botched summer.  But the last few months have become increasingly untenable.  Everyone will have their ‘line’ over which they think a manager’s time is up - mine was the Sunderland home game.  
 

The only thing I don’t have any time for is vitriol aimed at Howe.  I can understand frustration, but there are lines there too. 

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, Holloway said:

Aye I normally pop in the Bacchus/ Percy /Hotspur and might take in an Irish haunt to see if there's a bit of live music on ( The Union rooms being the latest I've heard). I'm massively resistant to change at this point (I'm 64) but I still only need 2 pisses at the ground and I'm fucked without my geps 

I used to be a regular in the Percy and the Hotspur post-match.  Sometimes I’d even brace the ‘toon disco’ upstairs in the Percy - not for casual drinkers in there …

[Abacus]

I said after the Palace game that it was the first time I've had a wobble about Howe. Didn't comment yesterday as I'd just be emotional (i.e. drunk) and annoyed.

 

I'd love for him to be able to turn things around, but that wobble is increasing. Let's see how the rest of the season pans out but I'm increasingly open to a change.

 

The squad is a bit of a mess and needs a bit of an overhaul, with a clear idea of what we need based on a clear playing style, where I think we've lost our way.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Wissa was a reasonable signing though, surely. Too expensive but should have scored 10+ goals this season quite easily. 

[Kid Icarus]

36 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

Random - yes

Tenuous - no 

Yes, Eddie Howe is Paul McCartney

[Holloway]

8 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I used to be a regular in the Percy and the Hotspur post-match.  Sometimes I’d even brace the ‘toon disco’ upstairs in the Percy - not for casual drinkers in there …

Aye I've been in there,great buzz like.

Sometimes I just want to find a quiet spot after the match to have a sit down and digest it etc, it's really difficult 

[Rich]

Just now, Holloway said:

Aye I've been in there,great buzz like.

Sometimes I just want to find a quiet spot after the match to have a sit down and digest it etc, it's really difficult 

If you can be arsed to walk over the High Level and pay silly money for a pint, the Central was lovely and quiet after the derby.

[Holloway]

1 minute ago, Rich said:

If you can be arsed to walk over the High Level and pay silly money for a pint, the Central was lovely and quiet after the derby.

I'll bear it in mind for next season 👍