Eddie Howe

[STM]

Few views on this...

 

Firstly, of course it's OK to say "I think that sub was wrong", "I think he should have made changes sooner" or "I think he should have started x player". I don't think anyone thinks this isn't OK to discuss.

 

Last season, around the city away game I was open in saying I thought he waited two games too many to bring Maxi, Isak and Murphy into the side. I think loyalty to certain players cost us.... however I also "got it", sometimes you have to show loyalty. Its a fucking tough job.

 

However, I don't think any of this is what we are REALLY talking about. We are talking about the post defeat knee jerk apocalyptic types. The ones who jump straight into the thread by slating Miggy or Burn, despite neither having a bad game. Slating the manager for not doing what they wanted, despite it not being absolutely clear that what they wanted would have helped. Everyone is captain hindsight.

 

I'm sure Howe will look at the Liverpool game with regrets but he'd be mental to beat himself up.

 

The great thing about Howe and the reason I love him so much, is that he's not the finished article... he will never be the finished article. He's his own biggest critic. That's why I wouldn't change him for the world.

 

I guess my own thought is that I'm in dreamland with this manager and the mere insinuation of a world without Eddie Howe pisses me off. Its short-sighted, reactionary and just not the Newcastle United I want to be.

 

I've no doubt that with Howe at the helm we will continue to improve long term but there will be some bumps along the way, so just relax, take the defeats on the chin and get behind the lads.

[wyn davies]

I believe that following the city game and now the Pool game, if things continue in the same vein the ownership will give him time to resolve any issues as per when he first arrived. I would hate to see another Richard Dinnis where he did well in his first season but the following one it all went pearshaped. I would not be surprised if the owners were already looking far ahead for future managers, hopefully Howe can manage any heat which come his way especially if Brighton ends in a further defeat, which it will should that be the case.

[HaydnNUFC]

Eddie Howe can be criticised for in game decisions that he makes as well as team performances without it meaning that people want him out or don't think that he's good enough. I haven't read much of the last few pages but I think criticism of a performance or setup or substitution gets conflated with being against him or wanting him gone or not thinking he's up to it for whatever reason. 

 

He's been absolutely phenomenal and done a job so fantastic it's pretty much unprecedented. I've always been a fan of him, remember calling for him even pre takeover (as if he'd even have came then, but you kna), was fully behind him in the stickier early days when we had 1 win in 21 or something and still am fully behind him now. He's took us into the CL for the first time in my conscious Newcastle supporting life immediately following a season which we started with Stephen Roger in the dugout and battling against relegation. Unbelievable. On top of that he's made us into one of the best teams in the country playing a high tempo, nice on the eye style of football. I love him and he's made me as proud as I've ever been of being a Newcastle supporter, Saudi baggage aside.

 

But Sunday was poor. A goal and a man up after 25 minutes and we not only end up not winning the match but losing it, it was canny shit. Against a team we finished above of last season and a few expect us to be mixing it with this season. You'd hope that he'll learn from that. Disappointment will also always come from that in spite of the bigger picture. I still am now and probably will be until 5:29pm on Saturday. That's part of being a football fan and that's fine.

[Miggys First Goal]

Looking forward to the meltdown when he gets replaced by Klopp. 

[STM]

Also, don't forget the players themselves are culpable. Howe will be furious at their lack of savvy. 

[wyn davies]

2 minutes ago, Miggys First Goal said:

Looking forward to the meltdown when he gets replaced by Klopp. 

Give over, I couldn't stand those teeth!

[Dr.Spaceman]

12 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Okay, fine. 

 

Your reactions and expectations are all perfectly fine and reasonable. Carry on.

 

What a child you are. I bet your expectations are exactly the same as each other 

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, STM said:

Few views on this...

 

Firstly, of course it's OK to say "I think that sub was wrong", "I think he should have made changes sooner" or "I think he should have started x player". I don't think anyone thinks this isn't OK to discuss.

 

Last season, around the city away game I was open in saying I thought he waited two games too many to bring Maxi, Isak and Murphy into the side. I think loyalty to certain players cost us.... however I also "got it", sometimes you have to show loyalty. Its a fucking tough job.

 

However, I don't think any of this is what we are REALLY talking about. We are talking about the post defeat knee jerk apocalyptic types. The ones who jump straight into the thread by slating Miggy or Burn, despite neither having a bad game. Slating the manager for not doing what they wanted, despite it not being absolutely clear that what they wanted would have helped. Everyone is captain hindsight.

 

I'm sure Howe will look at the Liverpool game with regrets but he'd be mental to beat himself up.

 

The great thing about Howe and the reason I love him so much, is that he's not the finished article... he will never be the finished article. He's his own biggest critic. That's why I wouldn't change him for the world.

 

I guess my own thought is that I'm in dreamland with this manager and the mere insinuation of a world without Eddie Howe pisses me off. Its short-sighted, reactionary and just not the Newcastle United I want to be.

 

I've no doubt that with Howe at the helm we will continue to improve long term but there will be some bumps along the way, so just relax, take the defeats on the chin and get behind the lads.

 

Not to mention there are people even going as far as having a go at players directly on social media, for goodness sake. Because after three games we dared to lose to Man City and Liverpool.

 

Man, not gonna lie, I have a really bad feeling about all this. Think we're going to blow it by being so impatient as a fan base.

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

What a child you are. I bet your expectations are exactly the same as each other 

 

' Your expectations are exactly the same as each other ... '

 

Um, okay. Whatever you say spaceman.

[Theregulars]

19 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Okay, fine. 

 

Your reactions and expectations are all perfectly fine and reasonable. Carry on.

You have no idea what my expectations are - you've never asked me about them and we've never had a conversation about them! You've literally decided what they are after extrapolating them from one comment or opinion. It's actually - sincerely, genuinely - how children view the world. 

 

My expectations for that game in the situation were that we would see a lead out with 15 minutes against 10 men. I don't see anything unreasonable in there. 

[Theregulars]

15 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

Eddie Howe can be criticised for in game decisions that he makes as well as team performances without it meaning that people want him out or don't think that he's good enough. I haven't read much of the last few pages but I think criticism of a performance or setup or substitution gets conflated with being against him or wanting him gone or not thinking he's up to it for whatever reason. 

 

He's been absolutely phenomenal and done a job so fantastic it's pretty much unprecedented. I've always been a fan of him, remember calling for him even pre takeover (as if he'd even have came then, but you kna), was fully behind him in the stickier early days when we had 1 win in 21 or something and still am fully behind him now. He's took us into the CL for the first time in my conscious Newcastle supporting life immediately following a season which we started with Stephen Roger in the dugout and battling against relegation. Unbelievable. On top of that he's made us into one of the best teams in the country playing a high tempo, nice on the eye style of football. I love him and he's made me as proud as I've ever been of being a Newcastle supporter, Saudi baggage aside.

 

But Sunday was poor. A goal and a man up after 25 minutes and we not only end up not winning the match but losing it, it was canny shit. Against a team we finished above of last season and a few expect us to be mixing it with this season. You'd hope that he'll learn from that. Disappointment will also always come from that in spite of the bigger picture. I still am now and probably will be until 5:29pm on Saturday. That's part of being a football fan and that's fine.

 

This x a million.

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

You have no idea what my expectations are - you've never asked me about them and we've never had a conversation about them! You've literally decided what they are after extrapolating them from one comment or opinion. It's actually - sincerely, genuinely - how children view the world. 

 

My expectations for that game in the situation were that we would see a lead out with 15 minutes against 10 men. I don't see anything unreasonable in there. 

 

Right, of course. I'm just a child. Perfect.

[Theregulars]

3 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Right, of course. I'm just a child. Perfect.

Genuinely - are you? It would explain so, so much.

[Kid Icarus]

I would highly recommend against taking the views of fans on social media as representative of anything.  Surely this is a lesson that should have been learned a long time ago? The Twitter football fan (NUFC or other) isn't a fan in the traditional sense, they're stereotypically entitled, whiny dickheads who prefer the 'winning' of spending money in the transfer market and the 'winning' of goading other fans over the traditional notion of winning where you enjoy watching your team win football matches. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[KaKa]

2 hours ago, Theregulars said:

 

When you watch us regularly and in detail, you see a team with no fear who outrun, outmuscle, outduel etc others. My question is, therefore, why does that disappear (in whole or in part) in some high-pressure matches / matches against the better sides? Clearly, against squads which are more expensive than ours and longer in the tooth as established teams than ours, we can perform this way (Manchester United at home, Spurs home and away, Manchester City home last year) - so what I don't understand is twhy, in certain matches, that identity / culture / ethos etc goes missing. In my opinion, it went missing in the last two matches under instruction from the manager to some extent (we were so reserved and timid in both games). It went missing in the cup final because, in my view, the occasion was too big for the manage and squad. 

 

So you say you don't understand why we look different against better teams in big matches, because in your view we should just go out there with the same approach we had against Villa yeah? Is that realistic and reasonable to you?

 

In fact you then go as far as to say we actually look reserved and timid against these teams, and in the case of the final the occasion was too big for the manager and players (None of this is true by the way). Is that a fair reflection of our performances or an over reaction and over exaggeration?

 

In my opinion you have completely lost sight of where we actually are as a team in comparison to the teams you are referring to and have also lost sight of how well the team has performed under this manager, including periods in the very matches you are referring to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by KaKa

[KaKa]

10 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

Genuinely - are you? It would explain so, so much.

 

Yes, I am.

[Maineblue]

59 minutes ago, 80 said:

This is the guy everyone was hammering and calling a troll because he said there was pressure on Howe to get a result against Liverpool, isn't it? Made ourselves look like dicks here, haven't we?

 

P.S. I don't really agree with you here. We had about as much of the game as Liverpool did against us - we just didn't put away our chances while they did. Your celebrations at the end of the game told their own story, it wasn't a comfortable night.

 

 

 

Fair enough @80 I respect and thanks for the reply.

[Jaqen]

We sat off City more than other sides as they want to bait you into the press so they can play around it you or launch a long ball to Haaland who's isolated against one CB. They absolutely destroyed Arsenal doing that when they tried to play their usual game last season. 

 

In the end we lost to a wonder goal against the best side in Europe. The main dissapointment with that game was how sloppy we were when we had the ball. Lots of poor touches and passes, but you can't point the finger at Eddie for that. 

[Theregulars]

18 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

So you say you don't understand why we look different against better teams in big matches, because in your view we should just go out there with the same approach we had against Villa yeah? Is that realistic and reasonable to you?

 

In fact you then go as far as to say we actually look reserved and timid against these teams, and in the case of the final the occasion was too big for the manager and players (None of this is true by the way). Is that a fair reflection of our performances or an over reaction and over exaggeration?

 

In my opinion you have completely lost sight of where we actually are as a team in comparison to the teams you are referring to and have also lost sight of how well the team has performed under this manager, including periods in the very matches you are referring to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, and at no point have I advocated for that (i.e. repeat the formula against Aston Villa). Yet again, it's a conclusion you've drawn on my behalf to try and suit a flimsy and over-generalised argument. 

 

I'll try and explain again - essentially, I have two questions / criticisms: 

• If we have seen visual evidence that we are able to impose ourselves on and overwhelm bigger teams in some matches, why have we not been able to do the same, or do to so to the same extent, in other matches? 
• Leading on from question 1, might it be a flaw in how the manager approaches those games? 

The answer to the second question may very well be your answer: the better teams negated us on the day, worked us out etc. I just think, in all the circumstances, it's reasonable to ask whether there is room for improvement when it comes to his strategy / attitude etc against bigger teams and on playing in big occasions? In my view, there is now a big enough sample size (it's still a small sample size) to ask that question. Why does that entitle you to dismiss that opinion as legitimate or entitled? In my view you dismiss it because you are, for whatever reason, unable or reluctant to engage in the topic with any real nuance or detail. It comes across that everything must be A or B, black or white etc, for you (which, again, is childlike).

 

I haven't lost sight of where we are: we overachieved last year and don't have a top 4 squad on paper (and certainly didn't last year). Nonetheless, we have overachieved, and the product of said overachievement is that we are now in our present circumstances with a new context, or at least a developed context. Against that background, I ask again: might the manager have approached those games differently? Might he have been overawed by the occasion? My opinion is that, yes, there is a plausible argument in favour of both ideas. 

 

 

[Abacus]

2 hours ago, Maineblue said:

Good post except for one thing “City weren’t hanging on in the end and Pep wasn’t worried”  you guys had one tame effort shot on target in the whole game, you’re a bloody good side but you didn’t turn up at the Etihad.

 

And fair enough, I probably over-egged the hanging on part a bit there. I did feel that we'd played ourselves back into the game towards the end even if our efforts were a bit powder - puff in the end.

 

I think most teams go to the Emirates expecting a hiding especially us coming from where we've started from, and I agree that we showed too much respect rather than going for it, certainly in the first half. No question that you deserved to win it. I suppose my point is that this doesn't represent any fundamental problem with Howe, just something to take on the chin and learn from.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Abacus

[Chapo]

These limitations are to be expected from a Steve Bruce recommended manager. 

[Weezertron]

Eddie's coaching probably improves us 20-25%? Whenever we have poor game, it's probably the truest reflection of what our team's level is on paper, without the Eddie Factor.

 

We might lose more games this year due to our defence not being as water tight, but hopefully we end up winning more than we did last year, resulting in a higher points total (I hope).

 

 

 

[Optimistic Nut]

4 hours ago, Sempiternal said:

Robson’s time was up, but the replacement fucked us. 

 

Chelsea got Mourinho, Liverpool got Benitez, we got Souness.

[KaKa]

3 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

No, and at no point have I advocated for that (i.e. repeat the formula against Aston Villa). Yet again, it's a conclusion you've drawn on my behalf to try and suit a flimsy and over-generalised argument. 

 

I'll try and explain again - essentially, I have two questions / criticisms: 

• If we have seen visual evidence that we are able to impose ourselves on and overwhelm bigger teams in some matches, why have we not been able to do the same, or do to so to the same extent, in other matches? 
• Leading on from question 1, might it be a flaw in how the manager approaches those games? 

The answer to the second question may very well be your answer: the better teams negated us on the day, worked us out etc. I just think, in all the circumstances, it's reasonable to ask whether there is room for improvement when it comes to his strategy / attitude etc against bigger teams and on playing in big occasions? In my view, there is now a big enough sample size (it's still a small sample size) to ask that question. Why does that entitle you to dismiss that opinion as legitimate or entitled? In my view you dismiss it because you are, for whatever reason, unable or reluctant to engage in the topic with any real nuance or detail. It comes across that everything must be A or B, black or white etc, for you (which, again, is childlike).

 

I haven't lost sight of where we are: we overachieved last year and don't have a top 4 squad on paper (and certainly didn't last year). Nonetheless, we have overachieved, and the product of said overachievement is that we are now in our present circumstances with a new context, or at least a developed context. Against that background, I ask again: might the manager have approached those games differently? Might he have been overawed by the occasion? My opinion is that, yes, there is a plausible argument in favour of both ideas. 

 

 

 

Why can't we just overwhelm them for periods in every game, because we managed it in a game before? Because that's not how football works. No teams in the league consistently overwhelms the top teams game to game. In my opinion we have had good moments in all of the games even if we didn't necessarily overwhelm at points in all of them. We had the better chances against Liverpool yesterday, and against Man City in the second half, with a bit more composure at key moments we could have punished them.

 

At this point in time I do not see it as some flaw in the manager, and think it is way too soon for this sort of talk. He hasn't been in the job long enough, is still putting his team together and does not have the depth of options available to him that these teams have. We've lost to two top teams back to back early in the season before we've really even had a chance to get going while integrating a number of new players into the team and squad.

 

I can't help but feel folks are getting ahead of themselves.

 

[jackyboy]

Perhaps the players he selected didn't perform or do as well as he expected and he was forced into making changes he didn't think he'd have to make,

I just love the guy and have the utmost respect for him. He'll have gone over the video of that game a hundred times and that makes him special