Eddie Howe

[TRon]

1 minute ago, Scoot said:

 

Sat at work with the lads having this exact conversation. We don't have any plan whatsoever. We used to be a high pressing side with lots of energy, now we just a team who just hasn't got a clue.

 

If we'd pressed yesterday we would have been raped to death on the breaks, our turgid back four would have had no chance. I thought the plan yesterday was to cut off the space behind, which we tried to do, but then couldn't play the ball out to counter ourselves. I don't think the plan was bad, just the execution. A lot of our players couldn't cope.

[Scoot]

1 minute ago, TRon said:

 

If we'd pressed yesterday we would have been raped to death on the breaks, our turgid back four would have had no chance. I thought the plan yesterday was to cut off the space behind, which we tried to do, but then couldn't play the ball out to counter ourselves. I don't think the plan was bad, just the execution. A lot of our players couldn't cope.

 

This conversation doesn't just apply to yesterday's game, we've had no plan away from home all season. We've been fucking disgraceful.

[Pilko]

I do wonder what he'll do for Saturday. I know the mackem manager isn't meant to be a genius but surely he looks at how knackered our lads are and winds his team up into coming out all guns blazing, loads of graft and energy, a full stadium (for once) and try to beat us that way? We've obviously got far superior quality all over the pitch but that's the way lower league teams typically upset the odds in a cup tie and it feels like the most obvious route for them to win.

 

I think that the local lads & those who've been here a wee while will find that little bit extra in the tank for the derby, especially knowing there are longer gaps between games coming up and the importance of the game to the fans.

 

I've already gone on a hell of a journey myself from being absolutely gutted at the Emery bungle to completely getting Howe's abilities as a manager and a figurehead wrong, and it's not one I want to have to repeat with another manager anytime soon having got to the correct point of realising how brilliant the bloke is. I don't think Staveley et al will make any knee-jerk decisions after the derby or even the other two tough games in January, because we should be through the worst of it regarding fixture pile-up and injuries, but I do worry the crowd and the atmosphere will start to turn if we do lose the derby. 

 

Ironically if our record had been better when Ashley and his various mouthpiece managers brow beat everyone into a feeling of numbness and expecting to lose every since derby I think a loss wouldn't have the impact that it will; 2011 since we last beat them as well as the change in backdrop since we last played them in 2016 means that we really, really need to win - for the sake of the fans, for the morale of the players, and to give Eddie a real fillip and help him kick us on in the second half of the season.

 

I'm worried for Saturday but then again I also have a calm feeling that Eddie's got it and we will be absolutely fine. Let's go and beat those cunts down the road and suddenly the world will feel rosy again.

[soyt]

6 hours ago, Kanji said:

Needs to fix the counter attacking vulnerability ASAP. Needs to sign a 6 and he needs to give minutes to Krafth and Hall. 

This is obvious yes, but im starting to think that he would not deploy anyone at 6, no matter who we sign. The flat midfield 3 is very strange, and no one seems to be told to protect the back 4. I know we dont have a natural player to do that, but we are not even trying.

[The Prophet]

It was always going to be a rough January. Carrying a fatigued, half-injured squad, bereft of confidence onto fixtures against three of the top four.

 

It's shite at the moment, but I expect things will begin to improve after the international break. 

[Wallsendmag]

4 minutes ago, Miggys First Goal said:

I keep seeing people post this or variations of, and I ask, if we do lose, what do they want to happen exactly?

 

A large proportion of the crowd will turn, that's what. Howe will come under massive pressure. Losing to them with the gulf in quality between the 2 teams wouldn't be on. We lost to Cambridge in his first year. Nobody was arsed. We had more important things to worry about like staying in the league. We lost to Sheff Wed last year. Nobody was arsed because we were concentrating on the League Cup.

 

This game takes on so much more significance. Obviously because it's against them but also because we haven't got the League Cup to concentrate on, and we haven't got a top 4 place to go after. Can't really see us getting top 6 unless we can do something with our away form. Teams sat 19th/20 in the away form table don't generally make top 6.

 

We need to put these to bed and use that as a springboard to kick on this season. Nothing else will be acceptable.

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, The Prophet said:

It was always going to be a rough January. Carrying a fatigued, half-injured squad, bereft of confidence onto fixtures against three of the top four.

 

It's shite at the moment, but I expect things will begin to improve after the international break. 

International break isn’t until march is it ? Or do you mean the winter break ?

[The Prophet]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

International break isn’t until march is it ? Or do you mean the winter break ?

 

Aye, my bad.

[Kid Icarus]

Just to repeat it again. If a large proportion of the crowd turn - in the context of that barely happening at all when Pardew was letting them pull our pants down - they either have collective amnesia or their support isn't worth much.

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

Just to repeat it again. If a large proportion of the crowd turn - in the context of that barely happening at all when Pardew was letting them pull our pants down - they either have collective amnesia or their support isn't worth much.

The club was a literal zombie during that era. I get your point though. 

[TRon]

5 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

A large proportion of the crowd will turn, that's what. Howe will come under massive pressure. Losing to them with the gulf in quality between the 2 teams wouldn't be on. We lost to Cambridge in his first year. Nobody was arsed. We had more important things to worry about like staying in the league. We lost to Sheff Wed last year. Nobody was arsed because we were concentrating on the League Cup.

 

This game takes on so much more significance. Obviously because it's against them but also because we haven't got the League Cup to concentrate on, and we haven't got a top 4 place to go after. Can't really see us getting top 6 unless we can do something with our away form. Teams sat 19th/20 in the away form table don't generally make top 6.

 

We need to put these to bed and use that as a springboard to kick on this season. Nothing else will be acceptable.

 

Agree mate. I found it hard to stomach but at the end of the day I looked at Liverpool's team and ours last night and I couldn't argue that we could realistically expect a win. They have bought better and paid far more in wages.

 

By the same token I don't want any excuses for the cup game either. Whatever team we put out there will be much more expensive and higher paid than the mackems. Fuck their stadium and their fans. Just go out their and outplay them, which I am sure we will.

[Wallsendmag]

1 minute ago, TRon said:

 

Agree mate. I found it hard to stomach but at the end of the day I looked at Liverpool's team and ours last night and I couldn't argue that we could realistically expect a win. They have bought better and paid far more in wages.

 

By the same token I don't want any excuses for the cup game either. Whatever team we put out there will be much more expensive and higher paid than the mackems. Fuck their stadium and their fans. Just go out their and outplay them, which I am sure we will.

 

Same mate. We all knew beforehand what the outcome would be so no complaints that what happened, is what I expected to happen. However, I didn't like the way we started the game by looking like a non league team setting up against a PL team away from home when it looked like we were happy just to keep the score respectable. My bigger problem is that we seem to set up away from home like that regardless of opposition. Whether it's Brighton, Bournemouth, Luton or whoever.

 

If we go out with that attitude of sitting back on Saturday againstweak opponents lets be honest here, and especially baring in mind we are nowhere near as solid defensively as last season, we are likely to concede first, their crowd will go mental, and all of a sudden it's a very long afternoon for us. There's no excuse for us not to do to them what Liverpool did to us. I'll be very interested to see Howes approach to this one. I really hope he doesn't shit it. Could well be a season defining game.

[Kid Icarus]

18 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Just to repeat it again. If a large proportion of the crowd turn - in the context of that barely happening at all when Pardew was letting them pull our pants down - they either have collective amnesia or their support isn't worth much.

 

Not in 12/13. That was definitely during the 'maybe he'll change' Ashley era.

[Minhosa]

6 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

 

Amen. I know this is not new information, but I feel like people have lost some perspective on where we sit largely due to how quickly we closed the gap in the table last season and our very rich owners.

• Our wages are the 9th highest in the Premier League, behind the six you'd expect plus Villa and West Ham.
  • We are as close to Everton in 10th as we are to West Ham.
  • Our wages are about £50m higher than Sheffield United's (19th), which is roughly the same gap from us to Liverpool. Chelsea's are another £16m higher from there and then Arsenal takes it another £16m higher. The Manchester clubs are another £35m+ above them.
• Our last officially reported revenue was less than the wages paid by the Manchester clubs. Even with the increases over the last couple years Manchester United's and Manchester City's wages are still closer to our revenue than our wages. The gap is astronomical.
• There are ~42 players in the Premier League on higher wages than Bruno, our highest paid player.
  • There are another ~23 before our next highest paid (Isak)
  • That means you can create almost six starting XI's of the highest paid players and we'd only have one player included.
• We have gotten 450 or less league minutes from Tonali, Targett (despite Burn being injured), Willock, Murphy, and Anderson. Just those players account for 21% of our wages and as everyone knows that is far from the end of our injury problems.

 

All of the above is not to absolve Eddie of any blame. He's made some mistakes and I think he'd be the first to recognize that. But so much of the angst in this thread and elsewhere seems driven by ballooning expectations. We overachieved last season based on our revenue, wages, talent, and depth, plus a very good injury record. We are now (currently) underachieving in the midst of a horrific injury record and compounding fatigue problems (and we were still moments from the CL knockout round and a second straight LC semifinal). It's frustrating and the derby is huge, but some patience is in order.

Superb post and further evidence that we need to be patient and play the long game. 
 

That simply can’t come with a revolving door for managerial appointments. 
 

The owners must stick with Howe. There’s nobody better to represent them, the club nor the region. 

[TRon]

3 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Same mate. We all knew beforehand what the outcome would be so no complaints that what happened, is what I expected to happen. However, I didn't like the way we started the game by looking like a non league team setting up against a PL team away from home when it looked like we were happy just to keep the score respectable. My bigger problem is that we seem to set up away from home like that regardless of opposition. Whether it's Brighton, Bournemouth, Luton or whoever.

 

If we go out with that attitude of sitting back on Saturday againstweak opponents lets be honest here, and especially baring in mind we are nowhere near as solid defensively as last season, we are likely to concede first, their crowd will go mental, and all of a sudden it's a very long afternoon for us. There's no excuse for us not to do to them what Liverpool did to us. I'll be very interested to see Howes approach to this one. I really hope he doesn't shit it. Could well be a season defining game.

 

I could understand sitting deeper against Liverpool though, we don't have any pace in our back four if we push up and get countered, Liverpool are especially good at doing that as well. Even with numbers back Salah was still tormenting our left side, can you imagine what they'd have done with Burn and Botman exposed?

 

Saturday is very different, they won't have the players to hurt us in the same way. We can hurt them assuming we can put out a half decent first 11. It really should just be about better players making the difference.

[SUPERTOON]

I’ve seen a few posts over the last few weeks saying PIF will be ruthless and won’t accept a poor season. What exactly is this based on, because nothing they have done since the takeover suggest this.

 

 

Edited January 2 by SUPERTOON

[TRon]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

I’ve seen a few posts over the last few weeks saying PIF will be ruthless

and won’t accept a poor season. What exactly is this based on, because nothing they have done since the takeover suggest this.

 

It's based on fuck all.

[Paulinho]

5 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

I’ve seen a few posts over the last few weeks saying PIF will be ruthless and won’t accept a poor season. What exactly is this based on, because nothing they have done since the takeover suggest this.

 

 

 

It’s based mostly on divvies who want to appear knowledgeable by saying things like “His Excellency does not accept second best!”.

[Wallsendmag]

8 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

I could understand sitting deeper against Liverpool though, we don't have any pace in our back four if we push up and get countered, Liverpool are especially good at doing that as well. Even with numbers back Salah was still tormenting our left side, can you imagine what they'd have done with Burn and Botman exposed?

 

Saturday is very different, they won't have the players to hurt us in the same way. We can hurt them assuming we can put out a half decent first 11. It really should just be about better players making the difference.

 

I can but I also watched how Fulham set up there the other week and were very unlucky not to win. Liverpool can be got at. Just thought once again our approach on the road was so negative which has been the story of the season. 

 

As you say, Saturday has to be very different.

[Holmesy]

The naivety of our approach, given the current circumstances around player availability and fitness, is concerning. It's like EH is stuck on one setting and everything we do has to be based around that setting.

We continually push everyone forward, despite a chronic lack of pace, and leave ourselves vulnerable to the counter attack 4-5 times every game. That isn't a difficult thing to change and yet, it isn't being addressed.

Dan Burn at left back is a disaster at times. Every team knows to target him and gets plenty of joy out of doing so. I appreciate the Hall transfer hasn't worked out but Livra at left back and Krafth at RB would've been a comfortably better option last night.

The ease with which teams play through our midfield, with one simple pass, leaving us on the back foot is embarrassing. When we're so one-paced as well, it's just tactical suicide. And yet, game-in, game-out nothing changes in this regard.

 

I'm definitely not in the Howe out camp, but watching this shit happen every game and getting dominated by the likes of Everton, Forest, Luton etc. is wearing very thin. None of us expected to win last night but we lost exhibiting the same glaring weaknesses that cost us against those lesser teams.

 

'Fatigue' has so far let some poor management off the hook, but how long will it be before that forgiving attitude changes?

 

 

[Tiresias]

100%. Looking at us recently we are glaringly open at the back and that surely has to be addressed and I'm not sure I see it. I remember when last season started we went through a very very sturdy at the back first half of the season but weren't initially scoring enough goals. Howe said he sacrificed a bit of defensive solidity to get us to score more then Miggy went on that run and a lot clicked. Howe needs to get the team back to that solidity even if we lose a bit in attack because the balance is all wrong right now. 

 

While we have never been a possession based team we certainly didnt seem to give the ball away so easily before.

[The College Dropout]

In Howe's defence - when Klopp gets injuries and bad form. He doesn't seem to do much to rectify it either tactically. He's started inverting TAA at the end of last season but he didn't do much prior to that from Aug - Feb/March.

 

He's relied on getting his players back / signing new players to play his style of football.

 

I don't follow Liverpool and their tactics closely mind so I could be completely wrong. I do remember seeing a 442 at some point.

[Geogaddi]

The more you see us play this season the more you realise how miraculous Eddie did last season to get us to 4th and a cup final , we could lose 5-0 on Saturday and I still wouldn't want him sacked . 

[clintdempsey]

If last season is deemed a 'miracle' can we really expect it to happen again?

 

For the record I don't see last season as miraculous - a few things fell in or favour (other sides having off-seasons, a welcome WC break in the middle of the season). But last season's achievements were more down to hard graft and a very good coach having enough time with his players on the training ground to prepare for games.

 

 

Edited January 2 by clintdempsey

[BShearer]

Howe is being asked lot of questions tactically these days and he fails to answer them. Luton, Forest, Pool, all very different sides, we lost them all and we never looked like winning them.being underdog or favourite we fail the same.