Sempiternal Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 36 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said: https://x.com/PremLeaguePanel/status/1746522331810308448?s=20 Yeah pretty much bang on I would say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 It's always been there, but only teams such as Brighton and Villa have been good enough to beat the press. Unfortunately, fatigue and absentees has made the press much easier to beat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 3 minutes ago, The Prophet said: It's always been there, but only teams such as Brighton and Villa have been good enough to beat the press. Unfortunately, fatigue and absentees has made the press much easier to beat. Exactly this. Brighton especially had to play at a ridiculously high level of speed and precision to beat it and they did. I'll never accept that match as one of our poor performances, Brighton were outstanding and never gave us a chance to play our game. Edited January 14 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, The Prophet said: It's always been there, but only teams such as Brighton and Villa have been good enough to beat the press. Unfortunately, fatigue and absentees has made the press much easier to beat. Most definitely. A good idea would be to fine tune it somehow so it doesn’t hurt as badly as it has done lately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaksbigrightfoot Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 49 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said: https://x.com/PremLeaguePanel/status/1746522331810308448?s=20 This is why we need to mix it up. We can’t do the same thing every game. Its why we couldn’t break down Luton and Forrest. Howe is a good manager and just needs to develop. He is not the finished article. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Jinx Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 All this tactical analysis is a bit pointless as it doesn’t really address the catalyst which is fatigue. We're conceding most of our goals after 70 mins so let’s just assume that with the right energy levels out “flat midfield” is actually fairly effective. Not so much when running on fumes. Post game and post training recovery needs to change/improve as it’s not working. Can’t really lay all that at Howe’s door either. His sports science department should be able to give him data that backs up what we’re all seeing on the pitch and make recommendations based on that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 10 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said: All this tactical analysis is a bit pointless as it doesn’t really address the catalyst which is fatigue. We're conceding most of our goals after 70 mins so let’s just assume that with the right energy levels out “flat midfield” is actually fairly effective. Not so much when running on fumes. Post game and post training recovery needs to change/improve as it’s not working. Can’t really lay all that at Howe’s door either. His sports science department should be able to give him data that backs up what we’re all seeing on the pitch and make recommendations based on that. Obviously fatigue and injuries are the main reason, but surely a tactical change is necessary if it keeps happening? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc123 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said: All this tactical analysis is a bit pointless as it doesn’t really address the catalyst which is fatigue. It isnt pointless, fatigue or not. There is a pattern to address. Obviously the late goals fatigue is a big reason, but if you look at the pictures its all from early in the games to around 60 min. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monters Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said: All this tactical analysis is a bit pointless as it doesn’t really address the catalyst which is fatigue. We're conceding most of our goals after 70 mins so let’s just assume that with the right energy levels out “flat midfield” is actually fairly effective. Not so much when running on fumes. Post game and post training recovery needs to change/improve as it’s not working. Can’t really lay all that at Howe’s door either. His sports science department should be able to give him data that backs up what we’re all seeing on the pitch and make recommendations based on that. 3 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said: Obviously fatigue and injuries are the main reason, but surely a tactical change is necessary if it keeps happening? For me the 5 subs rule plays a massive part in this and we struggle to make one or two subs some games, especially against teams like City when there is zero drop off in quality… Pep and Klopp were desperate for the rule change as they have the biggest squads and even more important the most experience in managing with big squads. Edited January 14 by Monters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 23 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said: All this tactical analysis is a bit pointless as it doesn’t really address the catalyst which is fatigue. We're conceding most of our goals after 70 mins so let’s just assume that with the right energy levels out “flat midfield” is actually fairly effective. Not so much when running on fumes. Post game and post training recovery needs to change/improve as it’s not working. Can’t really lay all that at Howe’s door either. His sports science department should be able to give him data that backs up what we’re all seeing on the pitch and make recommendations based on that. When we’re fatigued we’re especially terrible though. Incapable of doing anything but surrendering possession and playing backs to the wall, which completely ends us as an attacking threat and inevitably results in us conceding at least a goal or 2. That’s what needs addressing because fatigue will always be a factor even with a fully fit squad and every side needs a plan B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 25 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said: All this tactical analysis is a bit pointless as it doesn’t really address the catalyst which is fatigue. We're conceding most of our goals after 70 mins so let’s just assume that with the right energy levels out “flat midfield” is actually fairly effective. Not so much when running on fumes. Post game and post training recovery needs to change/improve as it’s not working. Can’t really lay all that at Howe’s door either. His sports science department should be able to give him data that backs up what we’re all seeing on the pitch and make recommendations based on that. Well yeah, but if we are fatigued then trying to play that midfield, pressing like that only adds to the issues. I personally thought the midfield looked super open against villa (yes I know we beat them) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyt Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 But there is fatigue, so surely we then have to adapt to it. We are just doing the same thing and we dont have the tools to do it. You dont have to change everything, just tweek few things to try to overcome it. I dont know..It seems so clear where the issue is with the midfield and nothing is done to it. It is just very frustrating. We look so easy to play against. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upthemags Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 54 minutes ago, Isaksbigrightfoot said: This is why we need to mix it up. We can’t do the same thing every game. Its why we couldn’t break down Luton and Forrest. Howe is a good manager and just needs to develop. He is not the finished article. Hard disagree - that same style got us Champions League football last season. What we need is more quality on the pitch, and fresh legs at 60 minutes on account of the accumulation of fatigue/injuries, and we are lacking in both categories Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Kills me that we're 1 Italian's gambling problem away from likely not even having this discussion at all He'd better put in prime gattuso performances for the next 10 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaksbigrightfoot Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 31 minutes ago, Upthemags said: Hard disagree - that same style got us Champions League football last season. What we need is more quality on the pitch, and fresh legs at 60 minutes on account of the accumulation of fatigue/injuries, and we are lacking in both categories You always have to mix it up man. Honestly we can’t do the same plan every week. Especially when you have to adapt to the circumstances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 33 minutes ago, Upthemags said: Hard disagree - that same style got us Champions League football last season. What we need is more quality on the pitch, and fresh legs at 60 minutes on account of the accumulation of fatigue/injuries, and we are lacking in both categories But when we haven’t got that extra quality and the injuries and fatigue is an issue, surely a tactical change is needed ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myleftboot Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Prophet said: It's always been there, but only teams such as Brighton and Villa have been good enough to beat the press. Unfortunately, fatigue and absentees has made the press much easier to beat. Certainly has considering the amount of shots on target are in double figures against us past few games. Edited January 14 by Myleftboot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 hours ago, Smal said: If our midfield line is pressing that high then the defensive line has to step up higher too. We can’t put all the focus on the midfield shape. The defence can’t be that deep when the midfield are pressing, it’s crazy. In the screenshot there’s no pressure on Rodri. You can’t step up unlesss there’s pressure on the ball/man. It’s when we have a mid/low midfield block with delayed press on the ball, it’s extremely easy to find a pass between the lines. 3 hours ago, Sempiternal said: Did we change formation last season, like towards the end? I don’t know if I have imagined it but I thought we did maybe around this time actually not the end of the season. Wonder if Howe will consider it again For 20 minutes against Fulham at home we went 4231. Isak behind Wilson. This season we’ve fluted with a back 5 a few times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Feels like we’re already turning the corner to me, we’ll be back on track soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 yeah. As mad as it sounds, getting Jacob Murphy back will be transformative for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I don’t buy that we’ve been figured out. But if we don’t switch things up - teams will figure it out even with a fully fit squad. We will need a win against a good team away from home at some point this season. And we won’t if we can’t play without the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 7 hours ago, Isaksbigrightfoot said: The problem isn’t the defence for me. It’s that defensive midfield hole that we have. If we had a beast of a defensive midfielder teams wouldn’t be cutting through us. Agreed, and I meant defensive unit. I think the tweet also agrees and suggests why Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 hours ago, Dr Jinx said: All this tactical analysis is a bit pointless as it doesn’t really address the catalyst which is fatigue. We're conceding most of our goals after 70 mins so let’s just assume that with the right energy levels out “flat midfield” is actually fairly effective. Not so much when running on fumes. Post game and post training recovery needs to change/improve as it’s not working. Can’t really lay all that at Howe’s door either. His sports science department should be able to give him data that backs up what we’re all seeing on the pitch and make recommendations based on that. The way we play is partly responsible for the fatigue. You can’t play this sort of tactic when playing every three days, and with a squad blighted by injuries. And a lot of teams have sussed us, too. I think next season we‘ll see changes in play style etc. Howe will spend his ‘holidays’ (I don’t think the man rests) thinking of ways to change it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 We definitely need to be more comfortable holding possession and slowing the game down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 27 minutes ago, Tiresias said: We definitely need to be more comfortable holding possession and slowing the game down. Yes, but extremely difficult to do that with Joelinton and Longstaff in midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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