Eddie Howe

[Bellis80]

20 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

 fuck it, this is just getting stupid

You should probably let every club in the world know that you watching a game and looking at the score is a better indicator than xg.

[Kanji]

29 minutes ago, ikri said:

 

We fundamentally changed the way we play this season too in order to accommodate Gordon and Barnes as wide forwards.  Last season, most of the time we had Joelinton and Willock either on the left of the midfield three or in the wide left forward position.  They would swap around during the game as well which made it a nightmare to defend against them and the wide forward was able to drop back into the midfield easily giving us more bodies when required.  With Miggy's constant running we were able to switch between a 4-3-3 and a 4-5-1 with ease and then as soon as we were in the position to go on the attack, those wide midfield players were suddenly forwards again.  It was all very dynamic and very successful.

This season, with Gordon playing up there instead, he hasn't been able to fill the same role as an ad-hoc midfielder, instead he's been an ad-hoc centre forward.  Barnes is the same, he's a forward rather than a midfielder.  If we'd had Bruno, Tonali, Willock and Joelinton all available this season we might have found some sort of balance but with the injuries on top of the change in style everything has gone a bit tits up.

 

Sometimes I wonder about this too, if they were all fit maybe Gordon eventually just starts getting the reps more and more on the right side. I always thought he was the perfect Miggy replacement....but then outta no where he broke out a LWF.

[Geogaddi]

I think a lot of the narrative about Eddie being under pressure comes from social media which you tend to find are not the regular match goers , I haven't heard much discontent at any home or away game this season about Eddie and I say that as a season ticket holder, so you can take what is being said about him online with a pinch of salt .

[Hanshithispantz]

37 minutes ago, Jagten said:

Depends how much you care about estimating latent quantities from noisy data (results), especially with a small sample size. I don't visually think performances have improved either. 

The xG over that period is still noisy data though (and that's without even touching on the fact xG is pure noise itself), applying it to a larger rolling average doesn't give it enough weight to discount a 5 game unbeaten streak.

 

Again, if I was arguing that we are playing well, or didn't look a joke at the back, I would understand these critisisms. I just think we've went from looking a free hit from the start, or absolutely fucked after 60 minutes every other game, to actually looking capable of going 90 minutes every week.

 

 

Edited February 29 by Hanshithispantz

[Big Jow]

14 minutes ago, Geogaddi said:

I think a lot of the narrative about Eddie being under pressure comes from social media which you tend to find are not the regular match goers , I haven't heard much discontent at any home or away game this season about Eddie and I say that as a season ticket holder, so you can take what is being said about him online with a pinch of salt .

 

Disagree. I’ve heard a lot of what is repeated on here on matchdays home and away (the sensible stuff obviously, not about comparisons with Bruce).

[Away Toon]

what isn't in doubt is that we were absolutely appalling against Blackburn with a strong team and a reasonable bench. We were abject. 

[timeEd32]

13 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

The xG over that period is still noisy data though (and that's without even touching on the fact xG is pure noise itself), applying it to a larger rolling average doesn't give it enough weight to discount a 5 game unbeaten streak.

 

Again, if I was arguing that we are playing well, or didn't look a joke at the back, I would understand these critisisms. I just think we've went from looking a free hit from the start, or absolutely fucked after 60 minutes every other game, to actually looking capable of going 90 minutes every week.

 

 

 

 

I agree with the part that we are now able to compete for 90 minutes. We aren't dead on our feet anymore though I still think there are lingering effects. I'm actually surprised where you made the split for comparison. Overall I think we had a much better January than February.

 

Sunderland - Not spectacular, but given our form and the occasion we did well

City - Competed well for 60-70 minutes. We had no fresh legs or answers for De Bruyne and other changes. Fair enough

Fulham - Not the greatest, but decent enough away from home.

Villa - The best we've looked by far since November.

----------

Luton - Crazy game; got a pass from me because I still think three games in a week, especially then, is a problem for us

Forest - Pretty fortunate to get 3 points. This is one that highlights our ability to compete better now, but it wasn't good. And a lot of midfield/defensive problems on full display.

Bournemouth - Also competing, but not good. Draw maybe fair, but if anything lucky to get a point.

Arsenal - Overrun from the first minute. 

Blackburn - I think we got better after the first half and in December I don't think we could have pushed in the first part of extra time like we did the other night. Competing, but not good.

 

The more time passes the more confused I am by the Villa game. I don't think I'm smart enough to understand why at least parts of that performance haven't reappeared in the subsequent month, although I'm sure the fact that the same midfield three had to play seven games in a row is not helping.

[Jagten]

38 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

xG over that period is still noisy data though (and that's without even touching on the fact xG is pure noise itself), applying it to a larger rolling average doesn't give it enough weight to discount a 5 game unbeaten streak.

 

Again, if I was arguing that we are playing well, or didn't look a joke at the back, I would understand these critisisms. I just think we've went from looking a free hit from the start, or absolutely fucked after 60 minutes every other game, to actually looking capable of going 90 minutes every week.

It's actually an exponential moving average FWIW, so it does weight toward more recent games. We can look at the individual games too and they weren't good. We were, for example, very lucky to win at Forest.  

 

 

Edited February 29 by Jagten

[Toon1892]

58 minutes ago, Geogaddi said:

I think a lot of the narrative about Eddie being under pressure comes from social media which you tend to find are not the regular match goers , I haven't heard much discontent at any home or away game this season about Eddie and I say that as a season ticket holder, so you can take what is being said about him online with a pinch of salt .

Agree with this entirely! Been to 13 away games this season and every home match. What you read online is completely different to what the actual fans that go to games are saying.

[Hanshithispantz]

50 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

I agree with the part that we are now able to compete for 90 minutes. We aren't dead on our feet anymore though I still think there are lingering effects. I'm actually surprised where you made the split for comparison. Overall I think we had a much better January than February.

 

Sunderland - Not spectacular, but given our form and the occasion we did well

City - Competed well for 60-70 minutes. We had no fresh legs or answers for De Bruyne and other changes. Fair enough

Fulham - Not the greatest, but decent enough away from home.

Villa - The best we've looked by far since November.

----------

Luton - Crazy game; got a pass from me because I still think three games in a week, especially then, is a problem for us

Forest - Pretty fortunate to get 3 points. This is one that highlights our ability to compete better now, but it wasn't good. And a lot of midfield/defensive problems on full display.

Bournemouth - Also competing, but not good. Draw maybe fair, but if anything lucky to get a point.

Arsenal - Overrun from the first minute. 

Blackburn - I think we got better after the first half and in December I don't think we could have pushed in the first part of extra time like we did the other night. Competing, but not good.

 

The more time passes the more confused I am by the Villa game. I don't think I'm smart enough to understand why at least parts of that performance haven't reappeared in the subsequent month, although I'm sure the fact that the same midfield three had to play seven games in a row is not helping.

I just looked before and after the 2 week break, post City.

 

      

[Big Jow]

58 minutes ago, Toon1892 said:

Agree with this entirely! Been to 13 away games this season and every home match. What you read online is completely different to what the actual fans that go to games are saying.

 

Whilst I go to games myself, this is grim.

Attending games doesn’t make you more or less of a fan.

[Toon1892]

30 minutes ago, Big Jow said:

 

Whilst I go to games myself, this is grim.

Attending games doesn’t make you more or less of a fan.

Apologies if that’s offended you. My point was more fans at games are verifiable. A lot of the online stuff could be coming from mackems/ kids/ people that have supported (followed may be a better word) for 30 mins and want instant success.

 

My point being that the ‘actual’ NUFC fans whether that online followers or people that go to the match are more patient (surely) than what I read on twitter.

 

The fact some people are calling for Howe to go blows my mind. 
 

Arteta had two 8th place finishes and Arsenal fans were patient with him. We can’t just change the manager when the going has been tough for 10 games. 
 

After a lifetime of supporting this club I’m so disappointed in our fan base and it genuinely makes me sad to see what many fans have become.

 

Even if we had the best manager of all time it was never going to be too 6 every season. We have backup players such as Ritchie, Dummet, Murphy, Lascelles (I could go on). Most people need to get a grip.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Toon1892 said:

Agree with this entirely! Been to 13 away games this season and every home match. What you read online is completely different to what the actual fans that go to games are saying.

 

A lot of those same fans went to games while Bruce was manager and never said a word against him so hardly good judges tbf.

[Toon1892]

2 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

A lot of those same fans went to games while Bruce was manager and never said a word against him so hardly good judges tbf.

Are you genuinely saying the crowd hostility is the same for Howe now as it was for Bruce!? Like really!? Come on mate…

[Toon1892]

The accounts on twitter with lots of followers don’t help. It’s in their interest to have a go/ want change/ drum up reactions. The easiest way to do that is to call for Howe to go. Whether they actually want that is a different matter. 
 

Unfortunately they have a big influence on the younger fan base and probably those fans who are more easily influenced by what they read on social media.

 

Really sad to see what’s happening with our fans. I used to think we were up there with the best. Not now. If the majority genuinely want Howe gone we have a pathetic fan base and that hurts saying that.

[TheBrownBottle]

8 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

A lot of those same fans went to games while Bruce was manager and never said a word against him so hardly good judges tbf.

Not sure giving the team and manager pelters for 90 mins every week is helpful or useful mind.  

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Toon1892 said:

Are you genuinely saying the crowd hostility is the same for Howe now as it was for Bruce!? Like really!? Come on mate…

 

I'm saying the in ground support is hardly worth going by when it comes to manager opinions when they barely did a thing when Pardew, Carver, McClaren & Bruce were in the dugout (other than rare occasions). 

[Toon1892]

4 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

I'm saying the in ground support is hardly worth going by when it comes to manager opinions when they barely did a thing when Pardew, Carver, McClaren & Bruce were in the dugout (other than rare occasions). 

Creasing at this. Did you want a sniper to take them out or something?

 

The atmospheres were hostile. There were pitch invaders. Booing on a regular occurrence.

 

There is none of that for Howe. But if fans carry on disrupting I’m sure it will come soon and then I hope people like you will be proud of yourself.

 

I presume you were the type that boo’d sir Bobby out too.

[Guest]

Nope I just don't agree with the "holier than thou" sentiment about match going fans being better.

 

A lot of the vocal crowd gave it all up in those days, a lot of the ones that stayed were happy to go no matter what the fuck was happening on and off the pitch. That's why I don't hold their opinions any better or worse than people who don't go, post on social media, etc. 

[Toon1892]

7 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Nope I just don't agree with the "holier than thou" sentiment about match going fans being better.

 

A lot of the vocal crowd gave it all up in those days, a lot of the ones that stayed were happy to go no matter what the fuck was happening on and off the pitch. That's why I don't hold their opinions any better or worse than people who don't go, post on social media, etc. 

I think my point went straight over your head. Never mind

[Big Jow]

3 hours ago, Toon1892 said:

If the majority genuinely want Howe gone we have a pathetic fan base and that hurts saying that.

 

This is fairly hyperbolic mind. There is probably a very very small minority with that opinion on this forum, the vast majority are just sharing their opinion on areas he could and should improve, which is totally reasonable and doesn’t suggest they demand his head.

 

Your other mistake may be relying on social media, which is worthless to take any sort of measure from.

 

3 hours ago, Toon1892 said:

Are you genuinely saying the crowd hostility is the same for Howe now as it was for Bruce!? Like really!? Come on mate…

 

Not sure he is saying that. I think he’s pointed out the hostility for Bruce and others was often at a minimum. I was given all sorts of abuse for calling for Pardew’s head whilst sitting watching us take a 6-0 slapping at home to Liverpool.

[Coffee_Johnny]

21 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

I recognise the excellent work and the progress the club has made to date and the stability he has brought to the club. But there are multiple posters on this very thread trying to claim his career's achievements are comparable to Jurgen Klopp.

 

Why would he have been sacked or hounded it? He took a club that finished 13th the previous season and 9th the year before to 6th, 5th, league winners, then league and cup double and a CL final. That's 4 years of straight progression.

 

The Klopp comparison doesn't work. They do not have the same career or track record (they have similarities in coaching style).

I'm not completely ruling it out. I don't have "Howe is elite" as my assumption of his abilities as many here do because I don't think there's evidence for it.

 

I rate him, I think he'll end the season strongly and think we can do very well next season with him at the helm. I'm just not convinced he's the next Fergie or Klopp. This is a balanced take.. it isn't if you think he's the best English manager since Bryan Clough. 

 

 

An alternative way of looking at it is can you think of any manager who has taken a group of players and improved so many of them? In his first half season he amassed 38 points with a team who had only managed 11 points in the first 19 games. 
Rather than subjective categories like ‘elite’ or ‘world class’ or whatever, if we want to know whether he is remarkably good at his job, we should bear that in mind. 

[Toon1892]

22 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

 

 

Why would he have been sacked or hounded it? He took a club that finished 13th the previous season and 9th the year before to 6th, 5th, league winners, then league and cup double and a CL final. That's 4 years of straight progression.

 

 

So you’re telling me Howe did better than Klopp in his first full season, including more cup finals? 
 

How have you managed to turn that into a negative against Howe? Comparing a Liverpool squad with a wage budget twice as high as ours is a bit of a silly comparison.

 

Fans that are comparing should be using managers that have managed squads with the 7th highest wage bill. Klopp had the second highest wage bill in that period. It really isn’t a fair comparison.

 

Lets compare apples with apples.

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, Toon1892 said:

So you’re telling me Howe did better than Klopp in his first full season, including more cup finals? 
 

How have you managed to turn that into a negative against Howe? Comparing a Liverpool squad with a wage budget twice as high as ours is a bit of a silly comparison.

 

Fans that are comparing should be using managers that have managed squads with the 7th highest wage bill. Klopp had the second highest wage bill in that period. It really isn’t a fair comparison.

 

Lets compare apples with apples.

 

We were chatting about his time at Dortmund to be fair.

[madras]

3 minutes ago, Toon1892 said:

So you’re telling me Howe did better than Klopp in his first full season, including more cup finals? 
 

How have you managed to turn that into a negative against Howe? Comparing a Liverpool squad with a wage budget twice as high as ours is a bit of a silly comparison.

 

Fans that are comparing should be using managers that have managed squads with the 7th highest wage bill. Klopp had the second highest wage bill in that period. It really isn’t a fair comparison.

 

Lets compare apples with apples.

And Klopp started off with a far stronger squad.

 

Aaaaaanyhoo, I'm giving Eddie a pass on the last few months due to the players missing, until then it had been all fantastic. Players coming back now, hopefully staying fit, and in a week or two should be hitting proper match fitness, so Evertonish  onwards. Let's see then.