Eddie Howe

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I’m not sure if there’s a stat for this, but it feels like possession turns over rapidly in most of our games.
 

For us especially, because we’re making so many mistakes, but probably the opposition as well. 
 

I feel like a lot of the time there’s just no structure that develops. 

 

 

Edited October 30 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Erikse]

21 hours ago, joeyt said:

I think the amount of injuries last year has made everyone at the club nervous about the high press

 

We're an Isak hamstring away from being pretty fucked

 

That's my impression aswell, the only reason I can think of as to why we we have been sort of trying to not go all in on the press. But Howes on managerial style revolves around high press and hard work. That's what he does best. It's a very difficult dilemma to solve.

 

And before anyone else say it, I'm well aware that we have been pressing a bit more lately, but it has still been nowhere near the 2022-2023 games.

 

 

Edited October 30 by Erikse

[janpawel]

On the topic of players suited to the counter / transition vs possession, I think it's important to have a mix of players, or players who can do both. City have Haaland and Doku who aren't exactly great in possession, Nunes that midfielder who doesn't get a game for them is more of a box to box etc. Chelses have Neto and Mudryk, who are rapid compared to Sancho and Madueke etc

 

Having said that, we clearly don't have many/enough players suited to retaining the ball, partly due to players who are still here before the takeover 

 

I agree with TCD on Barnes and Tonali, both good players and we are yet to know how good they will be for us, and I'm hoping they do well. But they only reinforce our existing style of play 

[Lush Vlad]

53 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

Still though, why are all the midfielders looking to go beyond Isak? There’s not one regularly sitting there in case of the turnover. 

They weren’t, were they? That pass into Palmer took Bruno and Tonali out. Joelinton was doing his usual weird left CM/left wing role. I’m not watching it again. It was too infuriating watching a catalogue of errors. 
 

The argument could be why was Bruno not sitting closer to Palmer/Schar engaging him. But it was a bit of an unexpected quick turnover and inexplicably shoved it in reverse for some unknown reason. 

[The College Dropout]

2 hours ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

The Tonali one is complete nonsense, that's not the payer he's been before his time with us at all. And you're only saying that about Gordon and Isak because that's what they've so far done with us, because thats how we've played. To say they absolutely couldn't play well in a more possession based set up is narrative forming and IPs alarm is blaring. 

But more importantly the overall point you're trying to make is flawed. Its a criticism of Howe and the signings made because they apparently don't have the profile for how we're trying to play now (not a fair criticism but we'll run with it), as some kind of proof he's not capable of coaching a side to play this way. But we're not going to have bought players for how we want to play in 3 years time, are we? No one does that. You gradually try and build a team to evolve a way of playing over time. We've gone from a very well organised, pretty much low-mid block, conceding the fewest goals side, to a high tempo pressing side, to now looking to control the game more. We needed players that could play all those systems. If you play high intensity pressing football but are buying players that wont fit that system, but the one you plan on playing in 2 seasons, you're going to get the sack because you'll be shite. Its crowbarring criticism in where it's not relevant. 

 

 

 

Isak said himself he likes playing with us in the PL because the games are more fast, transitional and direct. The slower nature of Spanish football wasn’t always to his strengths. 
 

Yourr arguing the other points with feelings and not facts. Tonali’s passing ball rentention is not a major strength. We knew this before he joined. Gordon doesn’t even need to be explained. 
 

They are talented players and have flexibility. But they are not the players to turn a transition team into a possession based team. 
 

We do not have the personnel to play like that effectively. Our squad is tilted to athleticism and power so we should play like that more than we’ve been trying. 

56 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

The biggest issue to me is we seemed to be fully set on the Klopp mould and, for a time, we were awesome. But now we're not playing that way anymore, possibly wanting to transition styles, while also not having any money for a major overhaul. 

 

I can understand wanting to see more of the ball and I can understand why we can't do 90 minutes every week of a hell for leather style. But I don't get why we aren't doing a lot more targeted pressing, why we don't sometimes play that way, and why we've ended up in this sort of no man's land version of what we used to be and what we maybe want to become.

Aye - we could try doing it in bursts. Or certain areas.  I dunno. 

 

2 hours ago, Lotus said:

Tbf, Gordon and to a lesser extent Tonali don’t seem especially geared towards a possession style game. Especially Gordon. He’s not particularly great at picking out passes between the lines. His passing isn’t that incisive. He’s better when he’s running at someone and has isolated a defender.

Tonali is a very physical player for an Italian (massive generalisation). He’s got a good engine and is happy to cover ground. He’s not Bruno levels of technical though (if he was I doubt we could’ve afforded him).

Exactly this. When I saw clips and read all about Tonali I knew we were doubling down on the press. Tonali increases the technical floor of the midfield substantially (Longstaff) but the aim was to give nothing away physically. Earlier that summer I suggested Kovacic - that to me would represent a shift in style. A bit slower, more focussed on control, secure on the ball etc.  but we doubled down on what was working with a player who was potentially elite in that mould. Ok no problem that makes sense.

[The College Dropout]

I agree about having a mix. Even Villa have Tielemans and Barkley who aren’t the most athletic or mobile.  But then also have lots of legs around them in Onana, Rogers, Ramsey, McGinn in a compact team - not a lot of space between the lines not a tremendous amount of ground for them to cover by themselves. 

[Heron]

Another season, another cup quarter final.

[Pilko]

That was much more like it, I know Chelsea were abject but he shuffled his pack to good effect and then made sensible changes to ensure we saw it out. 

 

We all know how quick the tide can turn either way, but get something at the weekend and suddenly it's a 3 game week that most people would have settled for at the start of it (okay, depending on the cup draw in a bit ).

 

[Dokko]

4 minutes ago, Pilko said:

That was much more like it, I know Chelsea were abject but he shuffled his pack to good effect and then made sensible changes to ensure we saw it out. 

 

We all know how quick the tide can turn either way, but get something at the weekend and suddenly it's a 3 game week that most people would have settled for at the start of it (okay, depending on the cup draw in a bit ).

 

 

100% this. Looked in control. Got the quick goals, and managed out the game 2nd half. Not sure how much Chelsea wanted it, but, even with that changed team their 2nd string is still worth £500m, so it's still a test when we're down. 

 

Test passed. 

[Lush Vlad]

Hard to take too much of that game literally. As Chelsea really weren’t that arsed about this. But we were still playing against a talented, ridiculously expensive XI. We made a few changes and were without plenty of our first team ourselves. All whilst in the middle of a rough patch.
 

Deployed the press to perfection first half and could have been 3 up after half an hour. Rode our luck a touch second half. But bar the penalty shout and Felix getting through. There wasn’t really many scary moments where it felt like they’d score. 
 

I’d look for a similar front 3 on Saturday, I reckon. But it does mean you need Joelinton interchanging with Willock, who was much improved BTW. Just not sure he gets in ahead of Longstaff based on tonight and previous games. 

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

3 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Isak said himself he likes playing with us in the PL because the games are more fast, transitional and direct. The slower nature of Spanish football wasn’t always to his strengths. 
 

Yourr arguing the other points with feelings and not facts. Tonali’s passing ball rentention is not a major strength. We knew this before he joined. Gordon doesn’t even need to be explained. 
 

They are talented players and have flexibility. But they are not the players to turn a transition team into a possession based team. 
 

We do not have the personnel to play like that effectively. Our squad is tilted to athleticism and power so we should play like that more than we’ve been trying. 

 Wow. The point I'm making is you're using assumptions and sweeping statements to try and paint things as facts, when in fact they're relative unknowns. You've decided to focus on something rather arbitrary as "profile" to prove Howe cant get a team playing possession based football. Does Haaland's profile scream possession? Isak's "profile" is great feet and touch, awareness and clever runs. He'll do fantastic in a team creating more chances for him by using the ball more should the team he's in be able to achieve it imo. 

Look, I'm aware you'd like Howe to fail. I don't get it personally, but there you go. The points you're making read very agenda driven. Looking for something to try and back up a pre determined argument. But it just makes much less sense than you'd like it to. 

Watch Tonali show his class this year. I'll pull you up on your post next year talking about how much you thought he'd be great in that role.
 

 

 

Edited October 30 by Super Duper Branko Strupar

[timeEd32]

Tonali as the 6, Bruno right of the midfield three, Gordon RW, and the Joes on the left might be our best team at the moment. Barnes supersub.

[Myleftboot]

2 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

Tonali as the 6, Bruno right of the midfield three, Gordon RW, and the Joes on the left might be our best team at the moment. Barnes supersub.

Good call.

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, timeEd32 said:

Tonali as the 6, Bruno right of the midfield three, Gordon RW, and the Joes on the left might be our best team at the moment. Barnes supersub.

 

I'm all for it 

 

Have always really liked Joelinton on that left side. He combines with the overlapping full back and the central midfielder on his side better than anyone in the team.

 

He played for a bit on the right today before Tino came on. Wish it had been for a bit longer. Be interesting to see if he can recreate those sort of combinations on that side too if it becomes apparent that Gordon has to go back onto the left side in your suggested lineup.

[The College Dropout]

54 minutes ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

 Wow. The point I'm making is you're using assumptions and sweeping statements to try and paint things as facts, when in fact they're relative unknowns. You've decided to focus on something rather arbitrary as "profile" to prove Howe cant get a team playing possession based football. Does Haaland's profile scream possession? Isak's "profile" is great feet and touch, awareness and clever runs. He'll do fantastic in a team creating more chances for him by using the ball more should the team he's in be able to achieve it imo. 

Look, I'm aware you'd like Howe to fail. I don't get it personally, but there you go. The points you're making read very agenda driven. Looking for something to try and back up a pre determined argument. But it just makes much less sense than you'd like it to. 

Watch Tonali show his class this year. I'll pull you up on your post next year talking about how much you thought he'd be great in that role.
 

 

 

 

No Haaland does not suit a possession based side. But City have 9 or 10 other players that are so he adds a different dimension. He’s also the best in the world at what he does so that helps the clash of styles. 
 

Im not agenda driven at all. If you look at this thread and others I’ve defended Howe a lot recently.  I’m not even saying this to attack him! I just want him to play the style that he has built the squad for. 
 

Tonali might prove to be an excellent player. He has ability.  He can bring great physicality to that position in the press, recovery runs etc. but he’s not going to be as good under pressure on the ball as Bruno.  I think a double pivot with them both could work excellently tbf. With just the one of them deep you lose legs or quick feet. 

[80]

Quiet thread, good news.

 

Not perfect tonight obviously, but the two Joes being at it, plus Hall impersonating Trippier, made it feel like we were back in our glory days. The team was up for it tonight from the off, which is a crucially important sign, as always.

 

 

Edited October 30 by 80

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I'm not sure the two Joes down the left is the answer mind - they both missed good chances arriving at the back post. Saying that, we won so it's not that important this time. 

[Rod]

47 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

No Haaland does not suit a possession based side. But City have 9 or 10 other players that are so he adds a different dimension. He’s also the best in the world at what he does so that helps the clash of styles. 
 

Im not agenda driven at all. If you look at this thread and others I’ve defended Howe a lot recently.  I’m not even saying this to attack him! I just want him to play the style that he has built the squad for. 
 

Tonali might prove to be an excellent player. He has ability.  He can bring great physicality to that position in the press, recovery runs etc. but he’s not going to be as good under pressure on the ball as Bruno.  I think a double pivot with them both could work excellently tbf. With just the one of them deep you lose legs or quick feet. 

Tonali is class.  We possibly haven't seen it yet but when  he settles into our rhythm he will be outstanding.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just now, Rod said:

Tonali is class.  We possibly haven't seen it yet but when  he settles into our rhythm he will be outstanding.

 

I don't know why anyone is in doubt about this. He's an amazing signing. 

 

Maybe some people hold his ban against him and think he owes us instant returns or something, but the lad is a highly-rated Italian international midfielder and someone we couldn't have dreamed of signing before. 

[Pata]

8 hours ago, PauloGeordio said:

Can Wor flags get on to this 

 

Others are seeing the obvious too! 

 

 

 

 

I mean that's right after the bad loss of possession by Isak. Has nothing to do with the midfield setup ffs.

 

 

Edit. Like Vlad had already commented. 

 

 

Edited October 31 by Pata

[Pata]

Really quiet here by the way after a win compared to the double digit pages after Sunday. 

[80]

36 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I'm not sure the two Joes down the left is the answer mind - they both missed good chances arriving at the back post. Saying that, we won so it's not that important this time. 

Yeah but they had point blank chances, which is an unusual thing for us nowadays. It implies we were overall doing match winning things right.

[Disco]

Fans still firmly with him given the song selection tonight.

[Izakaya]

Couldnt watch but it's encouraging to see we were up for it and we've tried something new. 

[Rod]

1 hour ago, Izakaya said:

Couldnt watch but it's encouraging to see we were up for it and we've tried something new. 

Something new?