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I just don’t think this whole “we’re keeping our power dry for the summer” argument really cuts it. There’s clearly time and place for buying players to get you through a short-term problem, Chris Wood is recent successful proof of that, arguably Targett and Burn also. There’s no guarantee a long term target will come to us in the summer. And the idea the owners have a master plan for advancing to champions league and staying there in future is tantamount to saying they can accurately predict the future performance of other teams and so know that, even if Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and Brighton improve, because of a few commercial contracts signed we’ll be sustainably better than those sides on the pitch. There can be no such guarantee! A January disappointment 

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5 minutes ago, Scotty66 said:

We couldn't have kept Shelvey as he wanted to leave. Howe told him he can't go but Shelvey said he wanted a new challenge so Howe had no choice. 

 

Yes we should have got a replacement but there's obviously valid reasons for why we didn't get it done. 


Exactly.

 

Shelvey begged to go at the 11th hour. We didn’t have time to get anyone in because of that. You can’t just magic a loan up out of thin air and on top of that we are really particular about who we get in. 
 

People are being unrealistic. 

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People continue to miss the point re: shelvey. The point is we need a squad, with options who we know can contribute at PL level. Shelvey was that, as recently as our great run last season. We’ve made a money move to get rid, fine; but it’s a gamble and now we have to pay for that gamble by relying on crap players. I therefore conclude it wasn’t an intelligent gamble in all the circumstances. 

 

It’s really simple. 

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Keeping Shelvey would have meant our squad was stronger, that much is obvious, how much stronger is up for debate but whilst it would have been better for now the chances are we would have in the summer then been stuck with a player on high wages

 

The player wanting to move combined with the opportunity to remove high wages without losing someone of real importance meant selling him made sense 

 

Now in the summer his spot is easier to replace than if we were still lumbered with him (Also worth noting for next season Gordon and Ashby will take up a squad space)

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6 minutes ago, NWMag said:

Everyone keeps saying we have 4 CM’s, we have 5. Howe has said Anderson is a CM so whether you think he is up to it or not, the clubs view is we have 5 CM’s, and if we play 4231 we only need 2 of them

We have played 4 of them non stop for the last few months though so that in itself is an issue.

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6 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

People continue to miss the point re: shelvey. The point is we need a squad, with options who we know can contribute at PL level. Shelvey was that, as recently as our great run last season. We’ve made a money move to get rid, fine; but it’s a gamble and now we have to pay for that gamble by relying on crap players. I therefore conclude it wasn’t an intelligent gamble in all the circumstances. 

 

It’s really simple. 

 

Everything you say is correct apart from one thing.... long term.

 

By keeping Shelvey (who begged to leave) and playing him, we would have triggered a contract extension. He was a player with no future at the club, on high wages and needed moved on.

 

If losing Shelveys 100k? wages gives us even more wriggle room for signings in the summer, it was worth the gamble.

 

Would Shelvey have seen us get top 4? I think it's hard to tell but IMO the owners (Ashworth) aren't going to make decisions based on that point. It wasn't even on the horizon at the start of the season and they won't change their plans and "gamble" on anything.

 

The process is thought through and they won't budge from it, nor should they. We are only going in one direction, a moment of short term discomfort for long term success is well worth it.

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Just now, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said:


For a week or say perhaps, hes had 7 seasons of underachievement, injury & disappointment (save the championship season) he wasn't imo a viable option, but I know nowt 

How do you think he performed after Howe arrived last season?

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4 minutes ago, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said:

Sub no ? 

Yes; and the entire point I’m making is that we need a squad. So, to spell that out more clearly, we need to have substitutes who can come in and operate at a premier league level when our starters are injured or suspended. We now have 2 CM starters out, so having a roster of 4 for 3 places was not an intelligent gamble. We’ve not made big enough money on Shelvey to make it worthwhile in my view. People will now bleat “but FFP!” - fine, then recruit intelligently. Get a loan or find a young gem. The board and manager - who, again, have been brilliant in their tenures to date - have left us stupidly short. 

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14 minutes ago, STM said:

 

Everything you say is correct apart from one thing.... long term.

 

By keeping Shelvey (who begged to leave) and playing him, we would have triggered a contract extension. He was a player with no future at the club, on high wages and needed moved on.

 

If losing Shelveys 100k? wages gives us even more wriggle room for signings in the summer, it was worth the gamble.

 

Would Shelvey have seen us get top 4? I think it's hard to tell but IMO the owners (Ashworth) aren't going to make decisions based on that point. It wasn't even on the horizon at the start of the season and they won't change their plans and "gamble" on anything.

 

The process is thought through and they won't budge from it, nor should they. We are only going in one direction, a moment of short term discomfort for long term success is well worth it.

I proposed we kept him until season’s end. If his automatic extension kicked in, so be it; we make it clear to him that he’s not getting many minutes and should look for a club during the summer. Howe was clearly prepared to trigger the extension, which suggests they weren’t that concerned about it.

 

I don’t think Shelvey by himself would have got us into the top 4, of course not. But I think he could be a squad player in an upstart team that gets there before growing, yes.

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33 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

People continue to miss the point re: shelvey. The point is we need a squad, with options who we know can contribute at PL level. Shelvey was that, as recently as our great run last season. We’ve made a money move to get rid, fine; but it’s a gamble and now we have to pay for that gamble by relying on crap players. I therefore conclude it wasn’t an intelligent gamble in all the circumstances. 

 

It’s really simple. 

So is balancing the books in terms of wages and numbers. Also respecting a player’s wish to leave. Hasn’t really featured much this season so probably on balance seemed the right option. 

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44 minutes ago, LV said:


Exactly.

 

Shelvey begged to go at the 11th hour. We didn’t have time to get anyone in because of that. You can’t just magic a loan up out of thin air and on top of that we are really particular about who we get in. 
 

People are being unrealistic. 

 

We've needed a midfielder even before Shelvey said he wanted to go

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He hasn’t featured as much because he was injured. Howe repeatedly said that shelvey was a big player for us and that his return would help. Again, I understand the financial argument and the argument that Shelvey wanted to take the longer contract. However, we held the cards, and I think we should have stood firm. It’s not a huge forbearance on him to play for us instead of nottingham forest for a further 4/5 months. In theory it’s nice to grant his wishes, but I’d rather not be nice when it means weakening our chances this season. All in all, in my opinion it looks a bad decision. 

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1 minute ago, joeyt said:

 

We've needed a midfielder even before Shelvey said he wanted to go

Precisely! We’ve now a need for 2, not 1. Bad decision. 
 

Like I’ve said, you’re just not allowed to criticise Howe and the board without provoking an avalanche of accusations of entitlement, lacking perspective and overhyping shelvey (a PL regular for most of his 14 year career, by the way). 

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1 minute ago, Theregulars said:

Precisely! We’ve now a need for 2, not 1. Bad decision. 
 

Like I’ve said, you’re just not allowed to criticise Howe and the board without provoking an avalanche of accusations of entitlement, lacking perspective and overhyping shelvey (a PL regular for most of his 14 year career, by the way). 

Don’t even think this is a criticism of Howe tbh, I don’t think he would have let Shelvey go. 

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47 minutes ago, LV said:


Exactly.

 

Shelvey begged to go at the 11th hour. We didn’t have time to get anyone in because of that. You can’t just magic a loan up out of thin air and on top of that we are really particular about who we get in. 
 

People are being unrealistic. 

Firstly, stop saying he “begged”. It’s stupidly emotive. He politely asked and set out his case. 
 

Secondly, the fact he asked so late should support the argument that we should have said no. Too late to replace him. The manager himself has said it’s a big gamble and he’s not comfortable with it. Stop trying to excuse them - they’ve made a mistake and it’s plain as day. All parties involved have shown their inexperience.

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Just now, SUPERTOON said:

Don’t even think this is a criticism of Howe tbh, I don’t think he would have let Shelvey go. 

I’m criticising Howe, who said that he agreed to let Shelvey go. I think it was an overly-emotional decision from Howe. He should have stood firm, and politely declined the request.

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1 minute ago, Theregulars said:

I’m criticising Howe, who said that he agreed to let Shelvey go. I think it was an overly-emotional decision from Howe. He should have stood firm, and politely declined the request.


Overly emotional? He said no at first and Jonjo begged him to be let go. That’s not an overly emotional response.

 

You want to keep an unhappy player? Because that won’t work. He’d been here years and wanted to go.

 

Right decision in my opinion and just unfortunately too late in the day to get a replacement of the calibre we want. 

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